US Pilot Labor Thread 10/19-10/26

[nostradamus]

WOW! Look at the pretty colors.

Recycled trash. ALPA national looked at it and disregarded it. This was essentially the east presentation to Nicolau. He looked at it and disregarded it.

Just so much emotional hysteria. Not worth the time to write or the electrons to send it.

With a wave of your wand of opinion, your rebuttal, is uneducated and shallow.

An educated person provides information. They trust and respect that the readers will form their own opinion.

You sounded very emotional in your post by the way.

 

[fodase]

Hmm, Usapa's bpr update mentions that management received the new list, All Hemmenway says that he or any management negotiator as much as touched it. Usapa lying to their members again, say it ain't so.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hmm, Usapa's bpr update mentions that management received the new list, All Hemmenway says that he or any management negotiator as much as touched it. Usapa lying to their members again, say it ain't so.

Were you there? When did Hemenway say that? Please supply documentation.

But, if we are just going to take your word for it, then who is to say anyone in management ever actually touched the Nicolau list when Rice took it to Tempe. Even if he met with Parker, or Hemenway, or whomever what's to say that Rice didn't just set it down in their desk and then the secretary came in and was ordered to feed it to the shredder?

Not likely, I admit. But just as provable as your scenario.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Not at all, if you'll bother to read my post. Just pointing out that experience is not and never has been the basis for seniority.



So DOH, like seniority, never changes - is that your position? I guess that I've been misinformed all these years. I thought that when a pilot got hired he was at the bottom of the seniority list (possibly some classmates below him) then moved up the list as the years passed (with some possible blips along the way if furloughed), hopefully retiring somewhere near the top of the list. Overall, he gained seniority as the years passed. How could I have been so wrong and not recognized that seniority is a constant...

Jim

As a bystander, it interests me that you are against anything that the East pilots want. I take it you are a solid ALPA man who flew for UAAir .....perhaps residing in their ALPA "upper echelons" before you retired? :unsure: You write with such authority and if someone disagrees with you, you seem to berate them in a very clever way. :blink:

I have been reading the posts here for years. You seem to have a bitter attitude towards USAPA and hence, the East pilots. After all, USAPA IS the legally elected entity that now represents ALL pilots on the property, no?

'Splain to me Ricky, just what your definition of DOH is. <_< I am very interested to know.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hmm, Usapa's bpr update mentions that management received the new list, All Hemmenway says that he or any management negotiator as much as touched it. Usapa lying to their members again, say it ain't so.

Just caught this in the USAPA update:

"Wednesday the Merger Committee addressed the BPR regarding their presentation of Section 22 (Seniority) to Management. Merger Committee Chairman Randy Mowery briefed the Board on the Committee’s presentation to Management on the specific details concerning the Conditions and Restrictions (C&R’s). Management showed interest and asked several questions concerning the C&R’s prior to taking the list for review."

I wonder how they're going to review the list without anyone touching it?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

'Splain to me Ricky, just what your definition of DOH is. <_< I am very interested to know.

He does seem to have a certain degree of credibility"over the years" that you have not earned yet.

He also does seem to be a forceful "devils advocate" at least and has earned a degree of respect that not many others have-especially for his fastidious number crunching and attention to detail.

Speaking of detail-what is "UAAir"?

 

[nostradamus]

He does seem to have a certain degree of credibility"over the years" that you have not earned yet.

He also does seem to be a forceful "devils advocate" at least and has earned a degree of respect that not many others have-especially for his fastidious number crunching and attention to detail.

Speaking of detail-what is "UAAir"?

have-especially ?

detail-what ?

 

[Megasnoop]

Stapling the east would be a shaft as would DOH be a shaft for the west. Relative seniority, the west's position, is fair. That's how Nicolau saw it. That's how the courts will see it.

A couple of points, tazz. Over the years, seniority arbritrations have gone from nominal DOH with C&Rs to relative seniority with C&Rs and everything in between. Not sure where you come up with this "stapling." Its never been on the table. Only in SWA/Morris was staple a player and that was union/non-union, with no arbitration.

"How Nicolau saw it" is irrelevant. The NIC died on April 17th along with ALPO. Courts dont rule on fairness. They rule on the law. "Dura lex sed lex." Courts seldom grant injunctive relief on anything. Youll get your day in court, AFTER the USAPA list is in place. "Fairness?" Courts dont rule on what is clearly "in the eye of the beholder." They rule on the law. "Abusus non tollit usum."

So, if the west position is imposed the result will be much more fair than stapling and DOH.

Key word: "IF," but "Imposed" by whom? USAPA wont. The company wont. A Court? Go ahead and DFR. Not sure why your bringing up the theme of "stapling," when it was never on the table.

And for all the FUD from NLC and his ilk, even with the west deadbeats refusing to pay dues, agency fee, USAPA is far from being broke. Secretary/Treasurer Mark King then reviewed the Association’s finances. As of September 30, 2008, USAPA has unrestricted cash in excess of 1.1 million dollars and $250,000 in available credit. USAPA will be starting 2009 financially strong as what little debt is owed is scheduled to be paid in full by this December.
Want to run a DFR on USAPA? Go for it, but your dues money/agency fees will pay for USAPAs defense. Since we dont send 3/4 of our dues back to ALPO any more and we put our officers up in a dump, weve got the bucks to defend ourselves. snooper

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

have-especially ?

detail-what ?

What does the cornfield look like?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Just caught this in the USAPA update:

"Wednesday the Merger Committee addressed the BPR regarding their presentation of Section 22 (Seniority) to Management. Merger Committee Chairman Randy Mowery briefed the Board on the Committee’s presentation to Management on the specific details concerning the Conditions and Restrictions (C&R’s). Management showed interest and asked several questions concerning the C&R’s prior to taking the list for review."

I wonder how they're going to review the list without anyone touching it?

Good catch, driver. Now management has two "dream" lists filed away somewhere. That, and the other three lists that are currently in play. I know the west would have hoped that management would have run usapa's list through the shredder, but some corporate legal eagle probably put the ix-nay on that. So the LCC team obligingly took the list. Management was simply doing what managements do: placate at the table, smile nicely, and continue squeezing labor for every last drop.

Meanwhile one list has been accepted; apparently another has been taken. Yet nothing has changed.

 

[nostradamus]

What does the cornfield look like?

You just berated a poster about their attention to detail when they were naming an airline. In your post, your attention to detail was worse than the poster you berated.

I find it hypocritical that when you chide a poster for detail you are ok with that. When someone questions you, it is a cornfield offense.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

it is a cornfield offense.

So answer the question-what does the cornfield look like?

 

[nostradamus]

So answer the question-what does the cornfield look like?

It is hard to explain, but it is not populated by the meek.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

It is hard to explain, but it is not populated by the meek.

The cornfield is only for those who do not know how to control themselves?

I respect you for manning? up to being there.

 

[cleardirect]

With a wave of your wand of opinion, your rebuttal, is uneducated and shallow.

An educated person provides information. They trust and respect that the readers will form their own opinion.

You sounded very emotional in your post by the way.

With a wave of your wand of opinion, your rebuttal, is uneducated and shallow.

What? That sentence has no coherent thought. Other than to insult and not very clever.

Yes it is my opinion that the document is trash. But ALPA national and a neutral arbitrator and a whole lot of other people agree with me. Uneducated? Any proof for your opinion or just your need to insult anyone that has a different thought than you?

Perhaps you should actually try reading a post before responding with your usual predictable reaction.

I did not tell anyone not to read it. Read carefully I said it was not worth the time to write or send.

Other than your personal bias could you point to the part of my post that you think is emotional. Unless it is just your knee jerk reaction to respond to certain words.