US Pilot Labor Thread 10/19-10/26

[BoeingBoy]

Tell me again why the company would even take sides on this?

If you'd bother to read my reply to ussnark instead of just assuming that any disagreement with a USAPA supporter is wrong, you'd see that I was responding to snark's contention that "Dougie cannot decide whether to 'accept' a list anymore than you can decide whether to 'accept' a subpoena."

So tell me, oldiebutgoodie, does the company have to accept the negotiated contract (including Section 22) before it can be enforceable or not?

Jim

PS - then, of course, there's that pesky transition agreement language....

 

[Tiger 1050]

USAPA says the TA is in full effect when it comes to furloughs. They claim that Parker can furlough senior pilots out west while junior pilots continue to work out east because of the separate list requirement of the TA. Yet when we talk of seniority list integration the TA is not in effect. Specifically this part I would guess...

IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and
US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance
with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the
Airline Parties for acceptance.

So which is it USAPA? Is the TA in effect or not? If not then tell me why USAPA has filed a Motion To Dismiss an injunction which would preserve the very ideal USAPA claims is paramount and the very reason it was created!

 

[Tiger 1050]

In fact, this is purely a union issue. Seniority is an issue to be resolved by the pilots. No where is management involved. The Nic was an ALPA solution. Now, the company is not dealing with ALPA.

Oldie,
Would you please address my post above? No one from the east seems interested in addressing this two-faced behavior from USAPA! Specifically how can USAPA justify more senior pilots being furloughed while junior pilots continue to work. Is not DOH USAPA's firm foundation?

 

[nostradamus]

I, for one, don't think that the pilots figure one iota into the merger formula, should the opportunity arise.

Oldie, you are dealing with someone that stood by and allowed a group of pilots to be stapled to the bottom of a list and said nothing. Said person had gains because of this. Said person is a higher up in ffocus which is nothing more the an extortionist group trying squeeze more free flying from Us Airways and using its employees, via propaganda, by spewing garbage on this thread.

Sometimes, people try to re write their own history, it is more convenient for them than the truth. Do not waste your time.

 

[Eastisleast]

Please read this post in the voice of a 1940's news reel!

October 2008...

We see the USS ANGRY F/O off the Carolina coast listing heavily to port, she has taken many hits from the downtrodden USS INTEGRITY MATTERS with her AOL and AWAPPA justice seeking torpedoes. Surprisingly she has taken even more self inflicted hits in the form of poor C&BL ‘s, lawsuits against it’s “own pilotsâ€￾ and a ill advised expensive USA Today add! When the judge rules at the end of the month we will see the waves overtaking the bow revealing the rusted seized propellers of a failed ship as she slowly sinks to the bottom of her DOH watery grave. In this reporters view its sad to have seen the devil ship cause so much unwanted divide between two proud nations.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Would that be Auto Brakes or Manual Braking? Your finest hour has been duly noted here at USAviation.

Nice blown tires Captian land her good.

Who's doing your writing for you? eastus?

Meanwhile, the last blown tire while I was "driving" was back in '75 - several thousands of landings ago.

By the way - you guys ever consider the message? Or is it all about belittling the west - hoping to scar our integrity. Sorry, that ain't workin' to good. Just rode an OAL jumpseat. Spent two hours with two other pilots who are in touch with reality. They know that eventually usap will be exposed for what it is - pure greed and tyranny. Those cute yellow lanyards will likely end up tatooed onto your backs when all is said and done........

 

[BottomFeeder]

Who's doing your writing for you? eastus?

Meanwhile, the last blown tire while I was "driving" was back in '75 - several thousands of landings ago.

By the way - you guys ever consider the message?

Where did you get your idea... that you would hurry to the gate before the fuse plugs would blow?

Would this be about saving your own a$$ while the Ramper/Ground Workers are killed... from your "experienced" ego?

You are dangerous... Maverick want-a-be

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So tell me, oldiebutgoodie, does the company have to accept the negotiated contract (including Section 22) before it can be enforceable or not?

Jim

PS - then, of course, there's that pesky transition agreement language....

Management has already said that they will accept whatever the pilots decide on this issue, with a few qualifications. USAPA's list meets them. Therefore, even though they have gone back on their word before, I still expect them to honor it in this regard. Especially since they have nothing to lose by doing so, and a lot to lose if they don't.

As far as the furloughs go, the TAs were written with a few generalities. One is that ALPA was representing the pilots. Once ALPA was voted out, you can essentially change the word "ALPA" for "USAPA" throughout the document (or, if you prefer, just change the wording to "the association"). Therefore, the correct verbage is that the seniority will be merged using "USAPA" merger policy, which we all know is "date of hire" (with fences and restrictions). The crap about correcting the lists from 20 years ago because of ALPA's stupidity is a smoke screen, at best. Blame ALPA for screwing up your career, not USAPA.

Next, the issue of out of seniority furloughs. The furlough policy assumes that the group has been integrated. Since they haven't been, then as the company reduces flying at each division, it has to cut the pilots proportionately. They have stated this over and over, but a few apparently "learning challenged" people still don't get it. Reminds me of the guy in the PHX crew room video that had to have the 6 east guys' situation (the guys that returned east rather than be furloughed) explained no less than 5 times, and still didn't seem to get it.

There will be no contract while the pilots are fighting among themselves. Not gonna happen. There's just no reason for management to do it. I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems way too convenient for the company to drag this out for a long time.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

There will be no contract while the pilots are fighting among themselves. Not gonna happen. There's just no reason for management to do it. I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems way too convenient for the company to drag this out for a long time.

I admit to being too lazy to try to log on and look it up..... can someone tell me when the first 35 mil East payout is due?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I admit to being too lazy to try to log on and look it up..... can someone tell me when the first 35 mil East payout is due?

Jan 1, 2010. Second is Jan 1, 2011.

$35 mil each.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Thanks Oldie. While I disagree with your assessment I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions...

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Where did you get your idea... that you would hurry to the gate before the fuse plugs would blow?

Would this be about saving your own a$$ while the Ramper/Ground Workers are killed... from your "experienced" ego?

You are dangerous... Maverick want-a-be

Now that's quite a stretch, there, BF. Trying to score drama points again, I see.

Allow me to ask you something: do you actually have anything important to say? Or is this pretty much it?

Just curious, do you carry sticky notes around in your flight kit, too?

 

[UtterlyUdder]

I want to tell you from a bystander's view that you seem to be 200% ALPA even though you are retired. What happened? Was your ox gored? You seem so bitter. Why on earth would you resent USAPA now?

Just wondering, 🙂 no reply necessary.

 

[Piedmont1984]

There will be no contract while the pilots are fighting among themselves. Not gonna happen. There's just no reason for management to do it. I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems way too convenient for the company to drag this out for a long time.

It seems to me that now is the best time for management to ink a contract with USAPA. If they wait another year or so then several developments will have or may have taken place.

First, USAPA will have held some or most of their elections, providing the BPR and base pilot reps with the kind of mandate and added legitimacy that can only come with elections.

Second, the economy - bouyed by the traditional bump that comes with a new administration - should see signs of recovery and with that, the airline industry as well.

Third, we will be approaching the amendable date of our contract (east) and LOA 93.

Fourth, we will have a much better idea of the disposition of these various and sundry lawsuits.

These developments will only make a contract more expensive every day management chooses to delay reaching an agreement.

Finally, Doug Parker has made no secret of his philosophy regarding airline consolidation - and he has only been able to thinly veil his ambition to run a truly global airline.

But first he needs to put this merger to bed.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

It seems to me that now is the best time for management to ink a contract with USAPA. If they wait another year or so then several developments will have or may have taken place.

First, USAPA will have held some or most of their elections, providing the BPR and base pilot reps with the kind of mandate and added legitimacy that can only come with elections.

Second, the economy - bouyed by the traditional bump that comes with a new administration - should see signs of recovery and with that, the airline industry as well.

Third, we will be approaching the amendable date of our contract (east) and LOA 93.

Fourth, we will have a much better idea of the disposition of these various and sundry lawsuits.

These developments will only make a contract more expensive every day management chooses to delay reaching an agreement.

Finally, Doug Parker has made no secret of his philosophy regarding airline consolidation - and he has only been able to thinly veil his ambition to run a truly global airline.

But first he needs to put this merger to bed.

All very good points. But there is one factor no one, especially management, can ignore. If a merger in the future is truly their goal, and I believe it is, then these contracts would likely all have to be renegotiated. Therefore, the best thing for the company is to improve it's balance sheet through artificially low wages and benefits. Airline managers LOVE to have labor groups divided like the pilots are. They can pit each side against the other and wind up with a status quo, giving each side just a taste of what they want.

Wall Street loves low cost labor. Even if the company sucks. Screw your employees and you instantly become a Wall Street hero. America West had the lowest paid employees for years. You think that these guys are changing their position now? I doubt it.