US Pilot Labor Thread 10/19-10/26

[tazz]

The only pilot group in the history of ALPA to collude with management in order to deny fellow ALPA pilots a raise lectures me on "Intgrity". I love that part too.

Yeah, right! Not lecturing, simply making a statement. We, too, watch what the east does as compared to what it says. Thanks for contributing.

 

[john john]

I hope that was sarcasm, since it's already the law. It just doesn't apply to this merger since it occured prior to the law.

Jim

Allegheny-Mohawk Merger LPP is the law now for future airline mergers ?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Gotta disagree with you Jim. The TA mentions 757 "growth" and "additional" flying in the same sentence.

You'll have to give me the section and subsection reference. The official TA as approved by the BK court contains no reference in the narrative to specific aircraft other than the E190 and CRJ-900. Of course, Appendix A shows the aircraft by tail number operated by each carrier at the time the TA was signed (including 757's) and Appendix B adds in the aircraft orders/options at the time the TA was signed - 757's are listed there but not the ex-ATA planes.

II( 5 ) - The Airline Parties intend to consolidate operations under the US Airways operating certificate and as such, should the Airline Parties acquire aircraft in excess of the number identified for that airline in Attachment B, such aircraft will operate as part of US Airways. However, in the event the decision is made to consolidate operations under the America West operating certificate, such additional aircraft will operate as part of America West.

II( 5 )( c ) - The America West MEC and the US Airways MEC will agree internally as to which pilot group shall operate such aircraft or will implement a process, including binding arbitration if necessary, to determine the Association’s position regarding the allocation of
such flying.

Pay particular attention to II ( 5 )( c ) since the ex-ATA 757's arrived while East (US Airways in the language of the TA) had the full complement of 757's listed in Appendix B. Also, try to find the E190's anywhere in Appendix B - you won't. So both the ex-ATA 757's and the E190's are subject to II ( 5 )( c )

Now, are any other made up rules...

Jim

 

[sharktooth]

II( 5 ) - The Airline Parties intend to consolidate operations under the US Airways operating certificate and as such, should the Airline Parties acquire aircraft in excess of the number identified for that airline in Attachment B, such aircraft will operate as part of US Airways. However, in the event the decision is made to consolidate operations under the America West operating certificate, such additional aircraft will operate as part of America West.

II( 5 )( c ) - The America West MEC and the US Airways MEC will agree internally as to which pilot group shall operate such aircraft or will implement a process, including binding arbitration if necessary, to determine the Association’s position regarding the allocation of
such flying.

Pay particular attention to II ( 5 )( c ) since the ex-ATA 757's arrived while East (US Airways in the language of the TA) had the full complement of 757's listed in Appendix B. Also, try to find the E190's anywhere in Appendix B - you won't. So both the ex-ATA 757's and the E190's are subject to II ( 5 )( c )Jim

No made up rules, Jim, simply taking information you present, in a very confusing manner, I might add.

You identify "east" as "(US Airways in the language of the TA)" and go on to reference II(5)© as if II(5) did not exist, which states that "excess aircraft" will become a part of US Airways, the east (in your words), in the event the operation occurs under the US certificate (I think it did). I do not think that is what you meant, because the verbiage seems to neuter your point.

 

[nostradamus]

The EMB 190 question.

II B 5.

The Airline Parties intend to consolidate operations under the US Airways
operating certificate and as such, should the Airline Parties acquire aircraft
in excess of the number identified for that airline in Attachment B, such
aircraft will operate as part of US Airways. However, in the event the
decision is made to consolidate operations under the America West
operating certificate, such additional aircraft will operate as part of
America West.

The 190 is excess. That is why the present management decided recently, not to acquire any more.

 

[nostradamus]

Oral Arguments
October 24 2008

Dear former AWA pilots,

Oral arguments regarding jurisdictional issues for our Hybrid DFR against USAPA and the company had been scheduled 1400 on the afternoon of October 29th. On the morning of October 24th , all parties were notified by the court that the hearing will now include arguments pertaining to our “Request for Preliminary Injunction,â€￾ in addition to the originally scheduled jurisdictional issues. The court has essentially made the entire day available for our case.

Click here to view the entire order.

We would like to invite as many of our pilots to attend as the court can accommodate. We have arranged for the use of an additional room, to where an audio feed from the proceedings will be available, but even with this additional space, the total number of AWA pilots which may attend will be around one hundred.

Because of this space limitation, we must ask that you let Leonidas LLC know if you are willing and able to attend, provided that we can make room for you. We expect that more of you will request admittance than can be accommodated, and to that end it is unfortunately necessary that we determine who may attend based on the following order of priority:


1.

Those directly involved in the legal campaign
2.

Those suffering, or scheduled to suffer a furlough
3.

Those suffering, or scheduled to suffer a downgrade
4.

Leonidas LLC Contributors based on level of financial commitment

We wish space were available for all of our pilots, but we appreciate your understanding that this is simply not the case, and is beyond our control.

To request to attend these oral arguments, please send an email to leonidasllc@yahoo.com with your name and P-number and with “RSVPâ€￾ in the subject line. The deadline to make your request to attend will be Monday, October 27th at 0800 PHX time. We will notify you via return email message no later that Tuesday afternoon if you are selected to attend, and will provide additional details at that time.

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

 

[sharktooth]

Oral Arguments
October 24 2008

Dear former AWA pilots,

Oral arguments regarding jurisdictional issues for our Hybrid DFR against USAPA and the company had been scheduled 1400 on the afternoon of October 29th. On the morning of October 24th , all parties were notified by the court that the hearing will now include arguments pertaining to our “Request for Preliminary Injunction,â€￾ in addition to the originally scheduled jurisdictional issues. The court has essentially made the entire day available for our case.

Click here to view the entire order.

We would like to invite as many of our pilots to attend as the court can accommodate. We have arranged for the use of an additional room, to where an audio feed from the proceedings will be available, but even with this additional space, the total number of AWA pilots which may attend will be around one hundred.

Because of this space limitation, we must ask that you let Leonidas LLC know if you are willing and able to attend, provided that we can make room for you. We expect that more of you will request admittance than can be accommodated, and to that end it is unfortunately necessary that we determine who may attend based on the following order of priority:


1.

Those directly involved in the legal campaign
2.

Those suffering, or scheduled to suffer a furlough
3.

Those suffering, or scheduled to suffer a downgrade
4.

Leonidas LLC Contributors based on level of financial commitment

We wish space were available for all of our pilots, but we appreciate your understanding that this is simply not the case, and is beyond our control.

To request to attend these oral arguments, please send an email to leonidasllc@yahoo.com with your name and P-number and with “RSVPâ€￾ in the subject line. The deadline to make your request to attend will be Monday, October 27th at 0800 PHX time. We will notify you via return email message no later that Tuesday afternoon if you are selected to attend, and will provide additional details at that time.

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

So, you are excluding your brethren from the east?

If not, email me. If not so, I guess transparency is basically a talking point with you all, as with your "integrity", changeable to your needs, I guess.

Unlike your criminal brethren, I am notifying you, unlike ALPO, that this will be brought to the attention of whomever "rules". Tired of the stupidity.

 

[nic4us]

So, you are excluding your brethren from the east?

If not, email me. If not so, I guess transparency is basically a talking point with you all, as with your "integrity", changeable to your needs, I guess.

Unlike your criminal brethren, I am notifying you, unlike ALPO, that this will be brought to the attention of whomever "rules". Tired of the stupidity.

Sharktooth,

I believe it is a public hearing, and as such anyone can show up and attend if they can find a seat in the gallery. The judge "rules" in his court. Leonidas is making a request of west members to forego attending unless they are in the above categories. However, I think some west will ignore their request, feel free to do the same,show up early if you want a seat.

With regard to criminal brethren, are you refering too the Cactus18 or the USAPA BPR? Hard to tell from that last sentence just what you mean.

 

[sharktooth]

I believe it is a public hearing, and as such anyone can show up and attend if they can find a seat in the gallery. The judge "rules" in his court. Leonidas is making a request of west members to forego attending unless they are in the above categories. However, I think some west will ignore their request, feel free to do the same,show up early if you want a seat.

Then why the

To request to attend these oral arguments, please send an email to leonidasllc@yahoo.com with your name and P-number and with “RSVPâ€￾ in the subject line.

Attention to the "P-number".

The announcement implies it is not public.

 

[nostradamus]

Excerpt from the leader of the america west pilots. They complain they are not being represented, but before the union representation results were tallied in early April, 2008, they made it clear they would not cooperate in anyway if it did not go their way.


MEC Chairman's Message (West) (america west pilots)


March 18, 2008


THE WAR AGAINST USAPA

Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent. We’ve already announced the formation of the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Association (AWAPPA), and the website is up and running at www.awappa.org. In addition, you should have started receiving email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA fails in its quest to disadvantage America West pilots. If you have not received these emails, please adjust your spam settings to allow emails from info@awappa.org and/or send an email to that address.

The plan entails a comprehensive legal strategy to be executed by Bredhoff and Kaiser PLLC (the same firm that represented us during the merger), as well as a political strategy to be executed by all 1,800 of us.

Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman

Comment

Us Airways pilots were part of alpa since 1951, through thick and thin. 57 plus years. They decided it was time to pull out after this lengthy time. america west leadership would not allow their new union one minute to the path of success. Who has shown the most patience, west or East? Who wants something overnight, who wants change after mature consideration?

 

[Eastisleast]

Excerpt from the leader of the america west pilots. They complain they are not being represented, but before the union representation results were tallied in early April, 2008, they made it clear they would not cooperate in anyway if it did not go their way.


MEC Chairman's Message (West) (america west pilots)


March 18, 2008


THE WAR AGAINST USAPA

Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent. We’ve already announced the formation of the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Association (AWAPPA), and the website is up and running at www.awappa.org. In addition, you should have started receiving email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA fails in its quest to disadvantage America West pilots. If you have not received these emails, please adjust your spam settings to allow emails from info@awappa.org and/or send an email to that address.

The plan entails a comprehensive legal strategy to be executed by Bredhoff and Kaiser PLLC (the same firm that represented us during the merger), as well as a political strategy to be executed by all 1,800 of us.

Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman

Ya Nos,

Ummmmmmm....that date of hire thing and trying to overturn BINDING ARB was what Usapa was about and is still about, and that is not representing west pilots. Why should we have not been ready to fight. This post is OLD news...grabing at straws because your nervous about the 29th???

 

[nostradamus]

Ya Nos,

Ummmmmmm....that date of hire thing and trying to overturn BINDING ARB was what Usapa was about and is still about, and that is not representing west pilots. Why should we have not been ready to fight. This post is OLD news...grabing at straws because your nervous about the 29th???

The preliminary hearing you have scheduled on the 29th could only make the company nervous, they are not. This in itself should be a cause of concern for you.

 

[nostradamus]

What goes around comes around. When your pilots decided to go to Australia to replace other airline workers, this is what an america west pilot wrote at that time.

"So here’s Max and I trying to slither off to our apartments through this rather unfriendly group of Federation pilots with their wives and kids. Well, that’s unfair. The pilots and children were actually fairly civil. You could talk to the pilots. Their wives, however, made their run-ins at the waterline. Fortunately, there weren’t too many of them.

I suppose they were experimenting with the tactic of making themselves look pitiful. They dragged their children around with them and planted them in front of you if you tried to move."

reference when america west pilots were taking jobs from others

Now your going to court and are inviting the following people to look pitiful.

""Because of this space limitation, we must ask that you let Leonidas LLC know if you are willing and able to attend, provided that we can make room for you. We expect that more of you will request admittance than can be accommodated, and to that end it is unfortunately necessary that we determine who may attend based on the following order of priority:


1.

Those directly involved in the legal campaign
2.

Those suffering, or scheduled to suffer a furlough
3.

Those suffering, or scheduled to suffer a downgrade
4.

Leonidas LLC Contributors based on level of financial commitment""

Poetic justice.

 

[Eastisleast]

It is a PUBLIC hearing anybody can come until there are no more seats! Why bother what AOL is doing and start asking why Usapa is not trying to get people to go? Bringing up the Ansett thing over again is just pointless, lets move forward, maybe these lawsuits will get us going in the right direction.

 

[john john]

Ya Nos,

Ummmmmmm....that date of hire thing

The Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions should be impose as the law for future mergers good language for airline merger and keeps self interest out of it. For airline employees sakes as whole it is good. The mess ALPA has generated is irreversible. If the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions was the current law mergers would have a formalize standard. There is a movement to have it introduce back as law for future merges and the ALPA mess is all the more the reason
Jim you do remember preferential hiring of the Braniff people