US Pilot labor thread 10/12-10/18

[Freighterguynow]

We are as patient as you

Go for it.

Meanwhile, Charlotte and Philadelphia, the two hubs operated by the former US Airways, have been the strongest links in the new carrier. They have suffered minimal capacity reduction despite cuts of about 25% in Las Vegas and 10% in Phoenix,

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Sir,

You claimed to be a war hero on this board, you fabricated your story. That is against the law. You have no relevance in a civilized society and do not deserve my correspondence.

The term "war hero" was fabricated by none other than cornfield occupant, eastus - not by me. I will no longer discuss my military service in this venue.

What I will discuss is relevant issues, one of which is the east's continued ignorance and denial of what is going on around them.

 

[Tiger 1050]

A New Sheriff in Town

The anger and frustration of the USAPA leadership is rearing its ugly face. It’s common knowledge that they have zero leverage and wrote hundreds of worthless checks in their giant power grab. The following email from a USAPA leader was so over the top and outrageous, we felt compelled to publish it in its entirety. Please note that we edited the tasteless, foul, and disgusting language where appropriate and replaced the letters with symbols.

From: XXXXXXXX <XXXXXXX@XXXXX.net>
Date: October 16, 2008 6:48:23 PM GMT-07:00
To: XXXXX <XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Wondering

F$%^ no, XXXXX....I am set for life! Your reputation however, precedes you. Here's the unvarnished deal: the seniority issue is decided, democratically and legally. I am sorry if your collective "p$%^&*" are hurting...seriously, but wake up and join.

I've been the "loser" in three, count them, three mergers; and yet, the only system that makes sense is date of hire, even though I've lost over 1,500 numbers and MILLIONS. It is unambiguous, objective and real. Anything else is a "lick and a promise". You have been (collectively) seduced by ALPA bull$%^, which had little to do with unionism and much to do with placating the airline who brought in the most dues money.

Well, wake up...new day, new deal. Your seniority buys you what mine does; minus the fact that I've been at this asylum for 25-years and you have been here, how long?

F#$% "career expectations"....you don't have a career, thanks to guys like Parker and Wolf and Siegle and a host of other MBA's from Wharton and other places.

If you idiots stop hating your fellow airmen, who have done the same job as you for a longer time and start focusing on the Fagans who run this sweatshop, we might all just get out of this with a shred of dignity. Otherwise...do your worst: we Easties have been trick-f#$%^& by the best....what do you suppose you Embry-Riddle, trust-funders can do to us that Wolf and ALPA haven't already done?

XXXXX, do you remember "Blazing Saddles"? Well, we are the Sheriff, (not the a#$hole PHX chief pilot), Cleavon Little's solution to a mob who wanted to lynch him is similar to the East outlook; Nobody move, or I'll shoot myself. Get it now, XXXXX?

Eff-you and your aching p&*$y. We have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN PENSION....and we are done. Get it now?

Fraternally,

Capt. XXXXXX XXXXX B767I PHL "A proud Catpiss Pilot"! How disappointing to read these words form a USAPA leader.

USAPAWATCH.COM

Tiger 1050 says:

Interestingly though we can perceive a glimpse of the real reason for his anger as his outward bravado is betrayed by this statement:

If you idiots stop hating your fellow airmen, who have done the same job as you for a longer time and start focusing on the Fagans who run this sweatshop, we might all just get out of this with a shred of dignity.

We all know you guys are tired of LOA 93 but this is seriously lacking any shred of professionalism. This becoming more of a failed science experiment than a union...

 

[Tiger 1050]

Why has USAPA filed a Motion To Dismiss an injunction designed to keep more senior pilots onboard instead of standing in the furlough line while junior pilots continue to work? I thought seniority is the very foundation USAPA stands on? Don't claim the TA has anything to do with it. Let the company play that game.

Snoop or any one from the east want to answer this? I'm sure your answer will be educational...

BTW if you claim the TA is the law in this case then is it true that the seniority integration policy detailed in this document law also? If not then how does USAPA determine which part of contracts, addendum's etc. they will follow?

 

[ussnark]

So, if you eastyz would finally accept what you commited to with the seniority arbitration, we jointly would be able to pressure the 9th floor into some movement towards a productive contract for all pilots. There are many of us here who would gladly and willingly work with you were it not for one thing. But we simply cannot be part of a union that places 80% of our pilot group below every single eastie.

Interesting take, from an ostriches point of view. Aside from the lack of participation of the west, with the west furloughing more, percentage-wise, than the east, it seems the west, as a voting power, diminishes as you speak.

To be brutally honest, I guess the east really doesn't need the west vote, now, do they?

To be compassionate, I would think that voluntary participation would ensure the west would get protections but hey, if you want to act like little children, by all means, go ahead.

As an aside, as long as you choose to represent your career expectations as a grossly flawed post-nic rather than pre-merger then you will constantly delude yourselves.

 

[ussnark]

The term "war hero" was fabricated by none other than cornfield occupant, eastus - not by me. I will no longer discuss my military service in this venue.

What I will discuss is relevant issues, one of which is the east's continued ignorance and denial of what is going on around them.

The word, "term", refers to a single word. It would be more accurate to refer to "war hero" as a phrase.

The phrase is quite accurate as you implied, through a deliberate choice of verbiage (never rescinded), that "hundreds" were "saved" because of you.

In a time of war, that would make one a "war hero" though, in your case, the memories seem the product of an undisciplined imagination, along with your (mis) understanding of maximum braking procedures of airliner class aircraft.

IMHO, ignorance and denial seem part and parcel of your posts.

 

[cleardirect]

To be brutally honest, I guess the east really doesn't need the west vote, now, do they?

To be compassionate, I would think that voluntary participation would ensure the west would get protections but hey, if you want to act like little children, by all means, go ahead.

As an aside, as long as you choose to represent your career expectations as a grossly flawed post-nic rather than pre-merger then you will constantly delude yourselves.

Nark

Just what was an east pilots career expectation pre-merger pre-Nicolau?

At the time of the merger you were in bankruptcy for the second time. Had 1700 pilots on furlough. Working under one of the worst contracts in the industry. So just who is misrepresenting their career expectations.

To be brutally honest, I guess the east really doesn't need the west vote, now, do they?

Finally! An honest response. Exactly what we have been saying from the beginning. You don’t need us.. So why exactly would we want to join. Why do we need to join to get protections? Are you admitting that the proposed conditions and restriction do not protect the west? Besides what do we protection from. I though that DOH was the end all of integration. So I guess you also admit that DOH is unfair to the west.

So thank you for confirming that fact. Oops. Merger policy requires a fair and equitable integration. So DOH is not fair.

 

[b737fo]

Curiosity got the better of me so I decided to check out this message board after not posting for a long time. Seems like more of the same for the last couple of years only more toxic and negative and it feels like the animosity will be around the LCC pilot group for years to come. So since I don't see a reason to come back here anymore, I wish you all blue skies and good luck in the future.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The word, "term", refers to a single word.

Actually not true. Per various dictionaries, "term" refers to a word or phrase having a specific meaning.

'Without let or hindrance' is a legal term which means 'freely' - Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.

Erikson is said to have coined the term "identity crisis." - Cambridge Dictionary of American English

a word or expression - Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

A word or phrase - Webster's New World College Dictionary

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Exactly what we have been saying from the beginning.

What have the west pilots been saying from the begining? This official west union leadership update was one of many posted before the USAPA election.

THE WAR AGAINST USAPA

"Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent. We’ve already announced the formation of the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Association (AWAPPA), and the website is up and running at www.awappa.org. In addition, you should have started receiving email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA fails in its quest to disadvantage America West pilots. If you have not received these emails, please adjust your spam settings to allow emails from info@awappa.org and/or send an email to that address.

The plan entails a comprehensive legal strategy to be executed by Bredhoff and Kaiser PLLC (the same firm that represented us during the merger), as well as a political strategy to be executed by all 1,800 of us."

Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman


You are now down from 1800 to 1447 pilots. Nice strategy so far on your part.

 

[ussnark]

At the time of the merger you were in bankruptcy for the second time. Had 1700 pilots on furlough. Working under one of the worst contracts in the industry. So just who is misrepresenting their career expectations.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but, according to your friend, Jerry Glass, the only publicly stated reason for bankruptcy II was to interdict the unions. No mention of financial difficulties. The sole reason was to bring the pilots down to the pilots level at HP in a shallow attempt to ease a merger. That is all. Those of us who listened to management knew that the exercise was to fraudulently utilize bankruptcy laws to reduce labor costs. I know you cannot figure that out because you were not there. Talking with ALPOs will only give you reasons to "defend" their erroneous positions. You may wish to use some reasoning powers here.

 

[nostradamus]

Army of Leonidas update one year ago.

Past time for Action
October 19 2007



Fellow West pilots,

Do not be fooled when Prater says that ALPA will now "present and defend" the Nicolau award. Saying it and doing it are two different things. How can he defend something even as he attempts to mitigate and dilute the arbitration award? We don't know either, but we're not waiting around to find out.

Prater continues to set unrealistic expectations for the East with his letter dated October 19, 2007. "Consensual approaches that promote mutual career protection and mutual success," really only means that the West is expected to give so that East can take."

" "We have nothing to give the East, and we owe them nothing." "

Stay tuned.


Your greed west, caused your demise.

 

[ussnark]

Actually not true. Per various dictionaries, "term" refers to a word or phrase having a specific meaning.

Wow. In my usage, the word "term" is a reference to a single instance. But, in your dictionaries, "war hero" refers to a "specific meaning", right? or not. I guess your definition of "specific" is different than mine. The usage, even from this thread, is hardly specific, at times referring to someone with courage and at other times, to a coward, a snarky comparison. I think should you read all the "small print" you will find clarification as in, he did not say, "terms".

I stand by what I said. Phrase, not term.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Wow. In my usage, ...

I guess that's all that matters - when your usage disagrees with the rest of the world, the rest of the world is wrong.....

"The word, "term", refers to a single word." Those are your words. Various dictionaries disagree with you by including phrases in the definition of "term."

FWIW, those same dictionaries define "phrase" as a group of words having a specific meaning. Since you claim that "war hero", as used in this thread, "is hardly specific" then your use of the word "phrase" is equally wrong.

Jim

 

[ussnark]

Why do we need to join to get protections? Are you admitting that the proposed conditions and restriction do not protect the west?

I would say that the east will do their best to protect the west from hurting themselves through their own negligence, apparently. However, the precision of protection could easily be enhanced to the west benefit, with some real input from those who are supposed to be protected, the west pilots. Likewise, there should be protections for the east pilots. It just seems silly for the west pilots to scream they have no voice when they refuse to lift a finger for themselves, a contradiction at several levels.

and, BTW, your comment reveals that you seem to wallow in a zero-sum game scenario (shorter, for someone to win, someone has to lose), a product of inexperience. You might understand that this does not necessarily have to be that way. With input, you can change this to a win-win environment for all. USAPA put out the hand. All you have to do is to do the same.