electricjet98
Senior
And will also prove to be far more expensive!
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US Pilot labor thread 10/12-10/18
- Thread starter Edward
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And will also prove to be far more expensive!
electricjet98
Senior
That same group, stung by the cancelation of their pension, was treated as golden under the NIC. Now they are looking at USAPA and wondering just where they went wrong. A limited number of years to rebuild the nestegg that was lost earlier, now they find themselves sacrificing the most for the "angry fo club", and no parity or contract with improvements in sight. The knuckle-dragging spokesmen of USAPA that reside here would be loathe to admit it, but "buyer's remorse" is no doubt setting in for that senior east group.
Ejet...
With all due respect, perhaps you should heed Edwards first post on this thread..."If you make it about each other personal attacks, name calling etc you ARE getting time off with no other warning. So think before you post . "
electricjet98
Senior
and just what "group" would that be???
companies can take away alot of things away from you with or without a union and a company can take away from you your pension your pay etc... and while they have done this .. thats one thing of course its legal raping of hard working people in this country and the folks who come up with this are not suffering financial burdens because they have the golden parachute and turn around and say... what is this with entitlement... well guess what . they can take away everything they can but the one thing they cannot take is our DOH... because when it is said and done its all we have left.. you folks work it amoung yourselves. been doing this for over 30years... in customer service... believe the DL/NW want this thing done before Bush leaves and figure the senority issue later. the DL f/a s are worried and at one time the NW f/a s were teamsters they are a big time union and senority is big time for them for the abritator to say oh yeah i feel this way... man.... no airline merger would have ever gone thru if this person had presented this prior to merger. blame the original merger plans of US/UA in the ninties because UA pilots were less senior than US and did not want this to go through and changed bylaws for the same things reasons the HP crews did not want... but you know CWA representing original US ground personnel no question said DOH. with the HP ground folks with average 5 years aganist original US with 20-45 years hey you do your time ... we ve all been there. take cockpit crews you are the best .. now can we all be friends... btw the HP ground got raises to those of US folks some say well we were talking to a union but you would not have gotten the pay raise if it wasnt for the merger... take care all..
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
Also, if the subversive activity has stopped - drop the lawsuit against the west. My guess is that we spent more on the USA Today ad than we lost due to mailings and bogus phone calls from the west.
Get a USAPA forum up and running.
Definitely hold elections sooner rather than later.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
You have no idea how the "golden" group feels about USAPA. I, on the other hand, being one of that group and in the crew room with them all the time in PHL, know that you are dead wrong in your assumption. The top of the list, be it Nic or DOH, is still very much in support of USAPA.
Why not come down to the A-West crew room in PHL and spout some of your crap and see just how the "golden" group reacts to you BS?
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
He doesn't need to walk that far. Just stop in at the B-6 crewroom. We'll tell him how you senior guys feel
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
This is the special Leonidas update for Columbus Day, 2008.
Today marks 516 years since Christopher Columbus landed in what is now the Dominican Republic. After half a millennia of mixing folklore with fact, most have a distorted picture who Christopher Columbus really was. What is true is that Columbus largely financed his journey by selling the idea of a quick and easy trade route to the Far East. An alternative trade route was becoming increasingly necessary as the Ottoman Turks had captured Constantinople fifty years earlier. The primary trade route between Europe and Asia passed right by Constantinople and merchants were finding it increasingly difficult to travel past the city. The idea of sailing west was not Columbus’s original idea, but what had stopped other explorers from attempting a westward journey was the perceived distance.
Contrary to popular belief, hardly anybody in the fifteenth century believed that the Earth was flat. People back than were pretty certain that the Earth was approximately 25,000 miles in circumference, but the exact figure had not be proven. There was a minority who believed that the Earth was a lot smaller than it actually is, even small enough so that a ship of that day could carry enough provisions to make the westward journey from Europe to Asia. Clearly, Columbus subscribed to this minority view and it was this miscaluction that prompted him to embark on what would have been an ill fated journey. You all know the story - what he found was something very different from what he had expected. In fact, it was so unexpected that he died not fully understanding how wrong he had been. He was obsessed with finding the passage through the Americas because unless he did, then he would never be able to make good on his original “sales job†to Queen Isabella.
Perhaps at the time Columbus viewed the obstacle as a matter of personal commitment rather than a natural barrier; if he just searched long and hard enough, then he'd surely find that elusive passage. Knowing the geography for what it is, we can see that Columbus had caught himself in a mind trap that had him literally sailing in circles. Futhermore even if there had been a passage, then he was also dead wrong about the size of the Earth. A greek mathematician had calculated the circumfrence of the Earth within a 1% accuracy some sixteen hundred years earlier (or, about three hundred years after King Leonidas!) and that figure was mostly accepted at the time of Columbus. Merchants had been making the trek between Europe and Asia for some time and those treks were far longer than would be the case if the Earth were the size of what Columbus believed. The point is that Columbus was wrong twice and although he could be given a pass for not understanding that the giant land mass in front of him pretty much stretched from pole to pole, he could have saved himself a lot of money and embarassment had he accepted what so many others knew - that the landmass now known as the Americas was only half way to Asia. What's more, his sheer luck of stumbling upon Hispanola saved him and his crew from his gross miscalculation of the Earth's size; all three ships were running low on food and water and they most likely did not have enough at that point to make a return to Europe. Columbus figured the Earth's circumference was about 15,000 miles when it is actually 25,000 miles. No ship of his day could load enough food and water to make the journey westward to Asia even if the Americas did not exist. One has to look back at Columbus's decision to make the journey and wonder why, in light of all the evidence which suggested that the trip was far beyond what anybody could accomplish, would he nevertheless risk his life, his crew, and three ships? Perhaps we could just chalk it up as something little more than a decision within the "wide range of reasonableness" of his time. After all, is there really that much difference in sailing another 10,000 miles in three 60 foot long caravels made of wood? It's all within the "wide range of reasonableness," right?
So, it is against this historical background that we begin our second, and brief Leonidas update of the week. To recap, our attorneys filed our responses to the dual motions to dismiss this last Friday. You can see all of the filing on the “Current Litigation Documents†page of our website. The primary issue currently before the court is whether it has jurisdiction to hear our claim. The company and the union would like to get this case thrown out on this pure technicality, because that would buy them some time; for the company that would mean a continuation of their out-of-seniority furloughs and for USAPA, it would mean some more time before their dreaded date with the inevitable.
Rather than try to tell you want you want to hear, or try to sell you on something that isn’t true, we at Leonidas would prefer that all pilots download the filings and read them yourselves. We believe that you will share our appreciation for Dr. Jacob’s simple and elegant deconstruction of both opposing motions. The opposing parties will have until Friday to file their replies to our responses. Oral arguments are scheduled to take place at the end of this month if the Judge Wake decides them to be necessary, or prudent, a ruling should following shortly thereafter. In the meantime, we would encourage all West pilots to stay informed, read the court filings, continue to support us financially, and most of all, to keep a positive attitude because there is a lot to be positive about, especially when you are in the right.
And one final thought: Columbus did get his passage through the Americas, but it was four hundred years later and it took an army of labor and steam shovels to move the trillions of tons of dirt. So, there is something to be said for resolute willpower even when it runs against the grain of common sense; all Columbus had to do was hold on for four centuries and he would have been right. We therefore await the army of steam shovels from the Carolinas to try to dig a new trench through accepted and well entrenched jurisprudence. Leonidas LLC
Today marks 516 years since Christopher Columbus landed in what is now the Dominican Republic. After half a millennia of mixing folklore with fact, most have a distorted picture who Christopher Columbus really was. What is true is that Columbus largely financed his journey by selling the idea of a quick and easy trade route to the Far East. An alternative trade route was becoming increasingly necessary as the Ottoman Turks had captured Constantinople fifty years earlier. The primary trade route between Europe and Asia passed right by Constantinople and merchants were finding it increasingly difficult to travel past the city. The idea of sailing west was not Columbus’s original idea, but what had stopped other explorers from attempting a westward journey was the perceived distance.
Contrary to popular belief, hardly anybody in the fifteenth century believed that the Earth was flat. People back than were pretty certain that the Earth was approximately 25,000 miles in circumference, but the exact figure had not be proven. There was a minority who believed that the Earth was a lot smaller than it actually is, even small enough so that a ship of that day could carry enough provisions to make the westward journey from Europe to Asia. Clearly, Columbus subscribed to this minority view and it was this miscaluction that prompted him to embark on what would have been an ill fated journey. You all know the story - what he found was something very different from what he had expected. In fact, it was so unexpected that he died not fully understanding how wrong he had been. He was obsessed with finding the passage through the Americas because unless he did, then he would never be able to make good on his original “sales job†to Queen Isabella.
Perhaps at the time Columbus viewed the obstacle as a matter of personal commitment rather than a natural barrier; if he just searched long and hard enough, then he'd surely find that elusive passage. Knowing the geography for what it is, we can see that Columbus had caught himself in a mind trap that had him literally sailing in circles. Futhermore even if there had been a passage, then he was also dead wrong about the size of the Earth. A greek mathematician had calculated the circumfrence of the Earth within a 1% accuracy some sixteen hundred years earlier (or, about three hundred years after King Leonidas!) and that figure was mostly accepted at the time of Columbus. Merchants had been making the trek between Europe and Asia for some time and those treks were far longer than would be the case if the Earth were the size of what Columbus believed. The point is that Columbus was wrong twice and although he could be given a pass for not understanding that the giant land mass in front of him pretty much stretched from pole to pole, he could have saved himself a lot of money and embarassment had he accepted what so many others knew - that the landmass now known as the Americas was only half way to Asia. What's more, his sheer luck of stumbling upon Hispanola saved him and his crew from his gross miscalculation of the Earth's size; all three ships were running low on food and water and they most likely did not have enough at that point to make a return to Europe. Columbus figured the Earth's circumference was about 15,000 miles when it is actually 25,000 miles. No ship of his day could load enough food and water to make the journey westward to Asia even if the Americas did not exist. One has to look back at Columbus's decision to make the journey and wonder why, in light of all the evidence which suggested that the trip was far beyond what anybody could accomplish, would he nevertheless risk his life, his crew, and three ships? Perhaps we could just chalk it up as something little more than a decision within the "wide range of reasonableness" of his time. After all, is there really that much difference in sailing another 10,000 miles in three 60 foot long caravels made of wood? It's all within the "wide range of reasonableness," right?
So, it is against this historical background that we begin our second, and brief Leonidas update of the week. To recap, our attorneys filed our responses to the dual motions to dismiss this last Friday. You can see all of the filing on the “Current Litigation Documents†page of our website. The primary issue currently before the court is whether it has jurisdiction to hear our claim. The company and the union would like to get this case thrown out on this pure technicality, because that would buy them some time; for the company that would mean a continuation of their out-of-seniority furloughs and for USAPA, it would mean some more time before their dreaded date with the inevitable.
Rather than try to tell you want you want to hear, or try to sell you on something that isn’t true, we at Leonidas would prefer that all pilots download the filings and read them yourselves. We believe that you will share our appreciation for Dr. Jacob’s simple and elegant deconstruction of both opposing motions. The opposing parties will have until Friday to file their replies to our responses. Oral arguments are scheduled to take place at the end of this month if the Judge Wake decides them to be necessary, or prudent, a ruling should following shortly thereafter. In the meantime, we would encourage all West pilots to stay informed, read the court filings, continue to support us financially, and most of all, to keep a positive attitude because there is a lot to be positive about, especially when you are in the right.
And one final thought: Columbus did get his passage through the Americas, but it was four hundred years later and it took an army of labor and steam shovels to move the trillions of tons of dirt. So, there is something to be said for resolute willpower even when it runs against the grain of common sense; all Columbus had to do was hold on for four centuries and he would have been right. We therefore await the army of steam shovels from the Carolinas to try to dig a new trench through accepted and well entrenched jurisprudence. Leonidas LLC
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Whats obvious is you don't know what you're talking about.
I asked an honest straight forward question and you obviously can not answer without resorting to unsolicited attacks.
Shift "a few hundred votes (approx 250)" and USAPA would've lost the election, add to it the LM-2 report that thus far has gone unrefuted, and you have the basis of my question. Others on this board seemed to understand, sorry if you didn't.
As to the "recent reports" you want to claim it as conjecture? Fine, provide me some proof the LM-2 is inaccurate. You'll have to forgive me if I won't simply take your word.
Oh and despite your inane protestation, I am NOT an ALPA cheerleader.
I am not now nor have I ever been represented by ALPA. I am not now nor have I ever been a pilot. I am not now nor have I ever been an employee of either AWA or USAirways.
I am an active member of labor.
The resolution of the Nicolau arbitration award, in favor of either East or West will have repercussions for labor/unions far outside your pilot group. Until recently, I simply monitored this board and a few others, believing like many that the situation had entered what amounted to a perpetual standoff that wouldn't see resolution for some time, perhaps years. When the LM-2 was posted both here and elsewhere and its validity was not disputed as so much here is, that as before formed the basis of my question. If that many pilots were not happy with their representation under USAPA, is it so hard to believe another representational election is out of the question, especially when it has the possibility to end the aforementioned standoff faster than either USAPA or the courts?
One last thing. If you're going to try to chide me over my "condescending tone" perhaps you should review the sordid history of your own posts, and then perhaps the definition of hypocrisy
cactusboy53
Veteran
- May 9, 2007
- 2,649
- 7,407
So.......if ALPA had 251 of those "500" votes (closer to 470 I believe) then ALPA would have won by 1 vote. Right? That said, then the 250 voter margin mentioned by the previous poster would have barely kept ALPA on property. Do you suppose there are 250+ voters out there with "buyers remorse"?? I'll bet the $60,000 annual loss of the top 517 there is. <_<
fatherabraham
Veteran
- Sep 27, 2002
- 814
- 354
- Status
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