US IAM Fleet Service topic 9/23-

[Dog Wonder]

The company cut these jobs.

Pointing fingers at each other is not in any ramper's interest.

 

[blownkneesbob]

I'm sorry but I feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents worth.
1st. having gone through 4 mergers 2 BK's and numerous station closings of my career. What exactly do you want from the Union , I mean
we have had station closing's and furloughs for many years never have I seen where the Union stood there and held your hand. Our contract
contrary to the ole teamster contracts we enjoyed has very poor scope and language this mainly due to the BK judge tearing up our contract
.
2nd I believe the "jester" was on here preaching about taking his raise now so he would have more unemployment benefits when they shut the doors
so now its happened the membership voted this T/A agreement in for a raise that most now will not get to have but yet the complaints seem to be coming from the very same group that voted this in. Guys and Gals the membership voted it in Everybody was briefed on the T/A (at least in my east station) so a decision
was made. It sucks folks are losing there jobs . but the company can downsize when they please again lack of protection in the contract due to folks wanting
a raise that the company knew would never be implemented for the duration of the agreement. Hopefully people will learn when negotiating there is more than just a monetary raise. job scope and language protection goes a whole lot further.

 

[necigrad]

Out of the 106 FT in vegas being furloughed I expect 70 - 75 percent to transfer to keep a FT job. When this happens you will see junior FT agents in PHX being displaced to either PT or furloughed.

70-75% is probably correct, but I'm hearing a lot of CLT and DCA talk.

And Necigrad, your AGC was in vegas for two days even spent time down at the cargo house

Yes MH was here. Yes I spoke to him about a few things. It was in conversation with multiple parties, then I chose to step away and let him speak to those who were being furloughed. In my humble opinion they deserve far more access right now then I. My position still stands, however. There is no excuse for the website to not be updated, for the furlough, the Attendance policy arbitration, or the promised contract. It's not hard at all to just say "Hey, this is where we are, nothing has changed, we'll let you know if anything has changed in a month or so".

I misunderstood about the trustees. I had it explained to me that they were to ensure the leadership was doing their jobs. I DO try to educate myself 700, just that sometimes, as perfect as this world is, things are stated wrong, remembered wrong, or interpreted wrong.

 

[robbedagain]

I knew that once this T/A was approved, the majority of it by the West side, the company was going to start closing cities before Dec 2011 and not a whole lot of you believed me. Most of us on the East know that this airline never ever sticks to the contracts. Prime example--cities closing prior to Dec. 2011. Now I do believe that if this T/A was shot down in 2008 or 09, we would of had a better deal, with better scope. The scope is one of the most important part of contract and unfortunately this outfit doesnt care who they send to the streets as long as its not them and their money Ever wonder why SWA and CO seem to have happier people and SWA contract is a whole lot better than ours

 

[P. REZ]

Ok here it is from the horses mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The company lost 3rd Qtr money they will reduce vegas by 50%!!!!!!! I hope all of you who voted for this contract will think about all the employees who have lost their jobs and will probably never come back. Especially you PHX people who are greedy and dont give a rats ass about anyone else. PHX has proven themselves they only care about FT people in PHX, if you dont believe me ask the person on the grievance committee and Im not talking about the two TWU officers, they only sell out part timers and they are not afraid to admit it. Ive heard them say well they are only part time why should we fight for them. Those two PHX people only want AGC jobs and they should be banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PHX stand up for yourself, PLZ

PHX has stood up for themselves. Tally, you obviously have no clue what I'm about. I've fought hard for Union for years and help each and every person I can. Are you trying to start rumors??? A true Union person wouldn't try to alienate its membership from its grievance committee. Are you Union or management?????

 

[ChockJockey]

Now I do believe that if this T/A was shot down in 2008 or 09, we would of had a better deal, with better scope.

I'd love to hear your or anyone else's reasoning for believing such. How would we have possibly gotten a better deal negotiating during last summer's fuel crisis, successive quarterly losses and global economic mayhem? It's a question I've oft posed but no one seems able to answer.

This belief, seemingly well shared, appears to hinge on some pretty flimsy assumptions:

• Management would have been willing to go back to the table (again)
• A better agreement with stronger scope considerations would have been drafted
• Management would have agreed to such an agreement including said considerations
• All this and ratification before skyrocketing fuel costs and then economic recession facilitated job losses (which would have been what, a period of six-eight weeks?)
• Management would honor and uphold their obligations in re this imaginary "better deal", although the main problem with this being...

Most of us on the East know that this airline never ever sticks to the contracts.

Oh, snap! So even if you'd shot down another TA and finally, miraculously, negotiated a gold-plated whiz-bang doozie of a contract you're basically conceding that this airline wouldn't have even adhered to it anyway? Ain't that just the way...

But I do agree with you, this airline isn't going to let any contract stand in the way of however many millions of dollars in short-term cost savings it can realize through furloughs. Scapegoating the West while convenient and I'd imagine somewhat emotionally satisfying though fails to account for one critical point of truth:

The company cut these jobs.

Pointing fingers at each other is not in any ramper's interest.

 

[The Janitor]

Jester,

I am not claiming anything but the fact that I fight for people no matter what. Not championing any cause but the good fight, Union brothers and sisters getting a fair shake.

Jester is a very angry person, why you guys engage with him or feel you have to defend yourselves is beyond me. Arguing with him is the equivalence of arguing with upper management. You and others should be directing your comments to those that understand and want to build solidarity. Prez, everyone knows you are a union man, you do not have to defend yourself to those who are piss and moaners and company suck ups who hide behind handles.

 

[The Janitor]

70-75% is probably correct, but I'm hearing a lot of CLT and DCA talk.



Yes MH was here. Yes I spoke to him about a few things. It was in conversation with multiple parties, then I chose to step away and let him speak to those who were being furloughed. In my humble opinion they deserve far more access right now then I. My position still stands, however. There is no excuse for the website to not be updated, for the furlough, the Attendance policy arbitration, or the promised contract. It's not hard at all to just say "Hey, this is where we are, nothing has changed, we'll let you know if anything has changed in a month or so".

I misunderstood about the trustees. I had it explained to me that they were to ensure the leadership was doing their jobs. I DO try to educate myself 700, just that sometimes, as perfect as this world is, things are stated wrong, remembered wrong, or interpreted wrong.

Hopefully, the website will be updated soon with information relating to furlough, transfer information pertinent to the cutbacks.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

...a displaced FT employees in vegas with 10 years seniority will be able to displace a junior FT employee in another station. The problem is those stations havent been announced by the company. Out of the 106 FT in vegas being furloughed I expect 70 - 75 percent to transfer to keep a FT job. When this happens you will see junior FT agents in PHX being displaced to either PT or furloughed...

If I read the contract correctly, if a FT person chooses to displace another FT person, there have to be no FT slots available in the system and then you can displace the most junior FT person in the system .

In this case: Johnny Doe gets a furlough notice at LAS. He is given a list of available stations with slot positions available. By the time they get to Johnny, there is nothing left at the stations listed. He can now decide to bump the most junior person in the system. The company comes back and says he can displace Susie Q out in PHL. She just went through class several months ago. But Johnny wants PHX! Well, there is no one as junior in the system than Susie Q, so you must go to PHL. Johnny decides he won't transfer to PHL. He is afraid that since he is a westie, he will be punched in the face on a daily basis. Because he decided not to transfer he has effectively resigned. No severance, no unemployment benefits.

One cannot just decide they are going to bump the most junior person in PHX.

Be careful if you choose to displace someone! It's a crap shoot.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[necigrad]

The latest I have heard about bumping is that once any open positions are offered, a count is taken of those still to be furloughed, let's say 200 members. Take the global seniority list, go bottom up for 200, and those are the positions eligable to transfer to. You don't get to pick any city with a junior person, you pick from what ever cities have the most junior, predominantly PHX, PHL, CLT, and DCA.

 

[P. REZ]

The latest I have heard about bumping is that once any open positions are offered, a count is taken of those still to be furloughed, let's say 200 members. Take the global seniority list, go bottom up for 200, and those are the positions eligable to transfer to. You don't get to pick any city with a junior person, you pick from what ever cities have the most junior, predominantly PHX, PHL, CLT, and DCA.

For clarification, PHX has 10 junior fleet service positions that could possibly get bumped.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

The latest I have heard about bumping is that once any open positions are offered, a count is taken of those still to be furloughed, let's say 200 members. Take the global seniority list, go bottom up for 200, and those are the positions eligable to transfer to. You don't get to pick any city with a junior person, you pick from what ever cities have the most junior, predominantly PHX, PHL, CLT, and DCA.

The list of stations with positions available that people will receive, hopefully this week, will be those stations that are under their head count. Once those are filled, the bumping begins. Then you work from the bottom of the seniority scale. As one works their way up, they may land on Susie Q in PHL. They must then take that position. The person on the seniority list you land on may be BUF! :cold: If one doesn't accept it, then they have resigned from the company.

Be careful when making the decision to bump.

 

[Jester]

Jester is a very angry person, why you guys engage with him or feel you have to defend yourselves is beyond me. Arguing with him is the equivalence of arguing with upper management. You and others should be directing your comments to those that understand and want to build solidarity. Prez, everyone knows you are a union man, you do not have to defend yourself to those who are piss and moaners and company suck ups who hide behind handles.

"These aren't the droids you are looking for"... oh wait, they are! Let's see, Janitor, the union desires compliant, kowtowing non-thinkers? So would an union member, as myself, be demanding too much to expect the union leadership to defend their positions versus just accepting their general malfeasance? My blinders would never fit me so well as to have my GC place them over my eyes.

When I hear the accusations of people protraying questioners of being management stooges, I am reminded of the quote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." In our case, it would read "Solidarity is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

So Disapproves Jester.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

For clarification, PHX has 10 junior fleet service positions that could possibly get bumped.

Have those folks in PHX been notified that they are bumpable?

 

[ChockJockey]

Johnny decides he won't transfer to PHL. He is afraid that since he is a westie, he will be punched in the face on a daily basis.

Nicely put.