E
EastUS
Guest
At this point? = Sign me up. ANY even semi-respectable method of "trial by combat" would be a good deal more sensible..and whole lot more fun.
US ALPA/USAPA/West Thread for week of 3/22-29
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
At this point? = Sign me up. ANY even semi-respectable method of "trial by combat" would be a good deal more sensible..and whole lot more fun.
So, in essence, Seniority DOES matter....most certainly to YOU..."but"..." it is naive to believe that this pilot group can be an island unto itself, immune to the eventual and pending industry consolidation."
I see things clearly now. Seniorty does matter..but.since further consolidation's a possiblility...the only "reasonable" thing for the east ot do is immediately, and totally capitulate to Nic/AWA/Alpa..and you can then have your fantasy come true as regards:
Leonidas: "Nope, I want the captain seat and contract that the east has held hostage, I want to make up for the last 3 years of stagnation on the west, due directly to east actions, I want to make up for contractual gains the east stymied, and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it."
....."and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it."Just that last fills me with an ardent desire to sign off on any/all AWA-Uber-Alles fantasies.....well..maybe NOT.
One of your attempted "endorsements" for things-Alpoid strikes a nerve with ANY actually thinking person. = "Any governing body that does not have access to capable advisors is not a capable governing body. It is up to the leaders we elect to determine what to do, if anything, with the advice that they get. " Only the most devout of truly experienced Village Idiots could even possibly imagine tha Alpa has any great brain trust via "advisors" None but a complete infant would eagerly place their futures entirely into the hands of a few Reps. For myself?..I kinda' like the idea of actually having membership voting on all substantive issues, and I'm not so very thrilled with leaving my fate entirely in the hands of ANY ALpoid "Babysitters", as you seem to be.
"It is not ALPA that brought you LOA 93." Most certainly NOT!!...It was the Alpoid waste product of some of those magnificent "Advisors" coupled with the equally talented Reps that provided their "Take this or we're ALL gonna' DIE!! FUD campaign....or, if not Alpa..perhaps it was the Easter Bunny?
"The experienced Negotiating Committee, in place at the time, negotiated in LOA 79 a strategic delay of the starting date for the parity measuring period. The coordination with other pilot bargaining meant that other major pilot negotiations finished before we entered the parity review..." Wow!!..That certainly was a moster stroke of sheer genius!! Look where that's gotten anyone/everyone. I think we need more "experiencd Negotiating Committee's" like that one!!
"Talking tough and ignoring the advice given to that committee and the MEC by ALPA’s experts is the reason why the pilots are now on a B scale when compared to the pilots of America West."
Ahh..the old "advice" thing again..umm..exactly WHO were/are these All-Knowing Advisors?...The same ones that convinced the mentally impaired, and vertebrae-deficient on our then-MEC to throw away the pensions without ANY membership input? Let's certainly make sure we retain such Alpoid "experts" for the betterment of all our futures...You're killin' me
"Many USAPA supporters want you to go "all in" and choose a path that has no proven track record." I've never seen any war, or even any tournament ever won without doing exactly that. What's your point?
"Replacing ALPA with USAPA will not prevent bad negotiating from occurring again." I just love that = "Alpa's pathetic, and their negotiating failures monumental..but, but, but..there's really no reason to bench that team in favor of another..sound wisdom I'm sure.
"The failure of this committee to obtain the equity that had been negotiated in the previous LOAs resulted in a loss of value of up to $100,000 of equity per pilot. You also lost a much more valuable pension plan than the one we have today." No kidding? It's a good thing we have USAPA to blame for that
"..against the advice of ALPA advisors and professional negotiators,.." Would those be the same "professional negotiators" that could not even avoid a strike from Alpa national's own office workers?..and subsequently , completely caved in to them?
"Our ALPA MEC’s plan for your future is working now by providing you with valuable firewalls of seniority protection. Leaving ALPA will discard those critical protections forever." Yes, yes indeed.....they've proved their excellence in that arena for all to see. Isn't it the west's contention that the Dump-Alpa movement's entirely based on responses to Nic and seniority destruction? I just can't go on with this...you're truly killin' me. Thanks for the daily grins.
Leonidas: "........"and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it." We'll likely have some continuiong "little" problems with that noted desire for harmony and love for all your "United Alpa Brothers and Sisters" out east
Thanks for your insightfull and humorous post. I needed a really good laugh today
There you go again, not disputing a single fact, typical of a brainwashed person.
E
EastUS
Guest
What/Which supposed "facts" would you like disputed?
As for "brainwashed"..heck; a lot of your tax dollars went into training that supposedly should make me at least somewhat resistant to any such....not that I personally place much faith in government programs, I'll admit Do you have any additional input on, or otherwise now dispute your position of: "and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it." No?..Then one "might", just possibly, assume that you're observing things through a rather selective little spectrum yourself sir.
"For myself?..I kinda' like the idea of actually having membership voting on all substantive issues, and I'm not so very thrilled with leaving my fate entirely in the hands of ANY ALpoid "Babysitters", as you seem to be."
In any case: We'll all know how many think/vote which way in the fairly near future.
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
HOW WEST PILOTS FEEL ABOUT EAST PILOTS
EAST PILOTS, I hope you FEEL THE LOVE. Just remember, whether you are an EAST ALPA or EAST USAPA, here is what the West pilot thinks of YOU:
YOU ARE A SCAB!
EAST PILOTS, I hope you FEEL THE LOVE. Just remember, whether you are an EAST ALPA or EAST USAPA, here is what the West pilot thinks of YOU:
YOU ARE A SCAB!
E
EastUS
Guest
I've always wondered about that = Isn't someone supposed to actually fly struck work to be a "scab"?
I certainly feel the warm and nurturing embraces from the West's "United ALPA Brothers and Sisters" as well myself..who could not?
..." Nope, I want the captain seat and........most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it." Sigh..I could almost wax nostalgic over the "good old days" when they were just telling us that we're "sheep"...we "have no honor", nor "integrity"..and well..that we just don't play fair, and are wholly despicable people on all possible levels. I always loved all that, especially when incorporated into Alpo cheerleading ramblings Then there's the famous: " You won't even get 200 cards!!/Send the cards, I DARE you!!", which has since been replaced by: "The TYRANNY of the majority!!". Insult patterns evidently have a life of their own, and do evolve over time.You've gotta' admit that it's refreshing to just finally see some honesty, via the "I WANT...EVERYTHING" stuff finally coming out of the closet. Perhaps we'll be able to actually start talking after April...I've my doubts, but; who knows?
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
- 882
- 12
Wow dude. Get it right. It's ALL PROFESSIONAL PILOTS AROUND THE GLOBE!!!!!
...and yes that was tongue-in-cheek. Settle down you are not painting a positive picture of the experienced out east...
E
EastUS
Guest
In fairness?..I can't imagine it to be any huge number anymore.
That being said...the irony's not lost on me that there probably are actual scabs fuming on about "USAPA=Scabs"
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
Wow dude. Get it right. It's ALL PROFESSIONAL PILOTS AROUND THE GLOBE!!!!!
...and yes that was tongue-in-cheek. Settle down you are not painting a positive picture of the experienced out east...
I'm just repeating what your West brother on the ALPA forum keeps saying. I personally believe in the old maxim "sticks and stones"...however, I figure if your guys over on the ALPA forum support it with SILENCE then you must agree with it. I've never called YOU scabs, however, I can see that "what's good for the goose is not good for the gander".
ET TU, BRUTES???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AWAPPA Newsletter
Issue #3
March 28th, 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in this issue
AWAPPA's current recommendations
Behind the scenes of USAPA insurance
Future AWAPPA updates
AWAPPA'S CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ø Upon receiving NMB voting instructions in the mail, cast your vote FOR ALPA.
Ø Ensure that you are receiving AWAPPA email updates.
Ø It is unnecessary to cancel your ALPA dues check-off at this time. Check back for more information on this.
Ø If you received a USAPA Membership Application or Dues Check-Off form in the mail, do not complete those forms.
Ø Do not volunteer for USAPA committee positions so long as they are not a bargaining agent.
BEHIND THE SCENES OF USAPA INSURANCE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is clear to anybody paying attention that USAPA's only plan is to purchase a date-of-hire seniority list from Doug Parker with a cost neutral contract. There is no back up plan, and there are few if any plans to address any of the other representational needs of pilots (and particularly the needs of America West pilots). There has been little thought given by USAPA to other representation matters. Obviously, a union whose slogan is "Seniority Matters" is willing to accept the loss of important representational protections in pursuit of the ultimate goal of stapling 90% of another pilot group to the bottom of the seniority list.
Don't believe us?
Consider how USAPA has responded to the "noise" (USAPA's term) that ALPA has made in regards to insurance products. Insurance might seem like a small component of union representation to some, but over 2500 pilots East and West use ALPA insurance products. Because of the overwhelming concern of those pilots, ALPA sent out an informational mailer about insurance in mid-February. Prior to that mailer, USAPA had done little to address that issue.
Still don't believe us?
Consider the following email from USAPA Communications Chairman Scott Theuer to the other USAPA leaders (we've highlighted some interesting points):
From: "Scott Theuer" <[email protected]>
To: "USAPA President-Bradford Steve" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, "USAPA-Sec Treas-King Mark"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Insurance, Aeromedical and Line of Credit
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:27:03 -0500
Gents,
Unfortunately, because it has taken us awhile, ALPA has, through a spiffy glossy mailer delivered today, defined our insurance response for us. It is:
These are the products we need to offer:
Monthly Loss-of-License (must be "own-occupation")
Lump-Sum Loss-of-License (must be "own-occupation")
Group Term Life (without any exclusions)
Ten-Year-Level Term Life (without any exclusions other than suicide)
Short-Term Disability (must be "own-occupation")
AD&D
Long-Term Care
We need to be able to supply these without requiring new medical evidence of insurability, and without pre-existing condition limits. Also, we committed to insuring non-members , ALPA says this is not possible.
Costs must be competitive.
Life insurance must be available as a "transfer" program.
We need specifics on plan design, limitations, or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.
We need to be able to refute the claim that by having the insurance companies responsible for the support, enrollment, billing and claim processing it will still be competitive cost-wise.
I've just spoken to Harvey Watt regarding my own insurance. To-date, they have no LOL insurance available for age 60-65. ALPA says, "ALPA is in the process of amending plans affected by the age change to incorporate extension of active members to age 65 where possible, without new evidence of insurability requirements." This will be a problem.
Insurance roll-over applications must be available so that on day one, a pilot is covered.
>From ALPA, "For a true transfer to occur, a USAPA member
would wake up in the morning after the ALPA termination with exactly the same terms. and no additional hoops to go through to keep what the member had with ALPA. We think it unlikely that any insurance carrier would go unprotected into that risky situation."
Then, there's Aeromedical. All the following is my opinion: Pete's a good guy, and highly respected. However, we're fussing around with him, and (to-date) he has said he will not work with/above/under Harvey Watt. Pete is developing his "own program." I believe there is zero chance that Pete could have a credible Aeromedical program, staffed by more than just Pete, up-and-running on day one. (If anyone noticed, he actually said, on video, that it would be difficult to replace ALPA Aeromedical and "of course it wouldn't all be running on day one." Wrong answer.) Spike's been talking to him, but we're not making any real headway. In my opinion, at the very least, it's Harvey Watt. It might be Harvey Watt with Pete as a liaison or over-seeing. It might be Harvey Watt with Pete taking the "difficult" cases.
It might be Harvey Watt now and Pete later. But it's Harvey Watt, with or without Pete, and we need to get a contract and plan setup ASAP. Spike was trying to setup a meeting with Pete on the 26th - Pete said he's unavailable the entire day. Spike's now working on afternoon or evening of the 25th.
Spike will be here, and I am available. While I am willing to do this with just Spike, it's not really my gig. He knows Steve B. better and Steve's President so I think, unless it is impossible Steve should be there too.
So, I believe we need, within the next very few days, the
following:
Commitments and contracts on all the above insurance products, with complete and full details
Aeromedical plan contracted and committed-to, with all plan details available
A commitment on our Line of Credit. The bank has had more than enough time to make this decision, and we now have an election. In my view I would call them on Monday, and let them know that absent a commitment by end-of-business we're shopping our business (which I think we should be doing anyway). I can get a signature loan for damn near a year's salary.
We're asking for a line of credit worth 13% of our annual CONTRACTED income.
I have multiple credit cards, each with 15-20% of my annual income in credit line. They should have committed two weeks ago.
Anything that is missing or unaddressed from all the above items will be picked-up on by ALPA.
I don't mean to be an alarmist Gents, but we have fires going everywhere which will be challenging enough; we shouldn't even be dealing with basic infrastructure and services 53 days out. By the end of this week, I would like to be able to address every one of the above items. At that point we'll be 47 days out. I believe our internal deadline for services and complete infrastructure should be 40 days, and not a day less. Even at that point we will start losing credibility and votes. After 30, ALPA will eat us alive.
Right now, 5,300 pilots have nothing more than our promise that they will have services, Reps, insurance and Aeromedical in 53 days. For a group as downtrodden as this, I'm amazed they've hung in there this long. I believe we will start losing them soon.
Again, not trying to scream too loud, but did I mention we have 53 days?
Scott
After receiving the above email, USAPA's fearless self-appointed leader, Steve Bradford, desperately forwarded it to Harvey Watt:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fwd: Insurance, Aeromedical and Line of Credit
xxx,
The other side is starting to beat us up. This is an election. One of USAPA's weapons in this election is Harvey Watt. We have no ammunition. We need product!
The "perfect is the enemy of the good." Please light a fire under your ING guys or whomever is going to supply this product and tell them that the other side is beating us because we cannot put contracts on the table.
Thanks
Steve Bradford
There are a few important things that can be learned from these emails:
Ø As recently as one month ago, USAPA had no true plan for insurance products. Had ALPA not sent out their insurance mailer, it is likely that USAPA may still not have an insurance plan.
Ø USAPA's Aeromedical Committee Chairman, Peter Lambrou M.D., conceded publicly that it would be difficult to replace ALPA Aeromedical.
Ø The future of USAPA Aeromedical is questionable at best.
Ø USAPA has serious funding issues, even though their leadership has made public assurances to the contrary.
Ø The USAPA leadership agrees that they shouldn't even be dealing with basic infrastructure issues so close to the election. Causes us to wonder how many other infrastructure issues there are?
Ø The USAPA leadership is not as confident in their level of support as they state publicly.
Ø Apparently ALPA's "noise" (USAPA's term) has teeth.
We have more where that came from, so stay tuned.
FUTURE AWAPPA UPDATES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are core union values?
USAPA rationalizes their greedy goal of stapling 90% of the America West pilots to the bottom of the seniority list by stating that "date-of-hire" is a core union value. Frankly, that assertion is not only fraudulent, but an insult to every card-carrying union member in this country. A brief review of unions and the labor movement convinces even the lay person that unions were founded upon "strength in numbers", a principle that USAPA is being founded in contradiction of. Unfortunately, that is a lesson that the USAPA leadership is going to learn the hard way.
What are USAPA's plans for negotiations?
During the March 11th & 12th road shows in Charlotte, a USAPA Officer admits that "we [USAPA] haven't talked a lot about negotiations". That was less than 3 weeks ago! And they're promising a quick contract, with no plan, no negotiating expertise, and (most importantly) no leverage?
Who has USAPA appointed to represent your interests?
This "democratic organization" has thus far unilaterally appointed each and every representative and committee member without the benefit of any democratic process. We've learned that many of the East rank-and-file are none too happy about some of these appointments. We figured that the USAPA leadership, without the "burden" of political accountability, would be able to select the brightest and most talented pilots available to fill these positions. We'll share with you what we've learned about some of the newly appointed pilots who will be responsible for providing you fair, unbiased representation if USAPA becomes the bargaining agent.
Quick Links...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AWAPPA Website
AWAPPA Newsletter
Issue #3
March 28th, 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in this issue
AWAPPA's current recommendations
Behind the scenes of USAPA insurance
Future AWAPPA updates
AWAPPA'S CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ø Upon receiving NMB voting instructions in the mail, cast your vote FOR ALPA.
Ø Ensure that you are receiving AWAPPA email updates.
Ø It is unnecessary to cancel your ALPA dues check-off at this time. Check back for more information on this.
Ø If you received a USAPA Membership Application or Dues Check-Off form in the mail, do not complete those forms.
Ø Do not volunteer for USAPA committee positions so long as they are not a bargaining agent.
BEHIND THE SCENES OF USAPA INSURANCE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is clear to anybody paying attention that USAPA's only plan is to purchase a date-of-hire seniority list from Doug Parker with a cost neutral contract. There is no back up plan, and there are few if any plans to address any of the other representational needs of pilots (and particularly the needs of America West pilots). There has been little thought given by USAPA to other representation matters. Obviously, a union whose slogan is "Seniority Matters" is willing to accept the loss of important representational protections in pursuit of the ultimate goal of stapling 90% of another pilot group to the bottom of the seniority list.
Don't believe us?
Consider how USAPA has responded to the "noise" (USAPA's term) that ALPA has made in regards to insurance products. Insurance might seem like a small component of union representation to some, but over 2500 pilots East and West use ALPA insurance products. Because of the overwhelming concern of those pilots, ALPA sent out an informational mailer about insurance in mid-February. Prior to that mailer, USAPA had done little to address that issue.
Still don't believe us?
Consider the following email from USAPA Communications Chairman Scott Theuer to the other USAPA leaders (we've highlighted some interesting points):
From: "Scott Theuer" <[email protected]>
To: "USAPA President-Bradford Steve" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, "USAPA-Sec Treas-King Mark"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Insurance, Aeromedical and Line of Credit
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:27:03 -0500
Gents,
Unfortunately, because it has taken us awhile, ALPA has, through a spiffy glossy mailer delivered today, defined our insurance response for us. It is:
These are the products we need to offer:
Monthly Loss-of-License (must be "own-occupation")
Lump-Sum Loss-of-License (must be "own-occupation")
Group Term Life (without any exclusions)
Ten-Year-Level Term Life (without any exclusions other than suicide)
Short-Term Disability (must be "own-occupation")
AD&D
Long-Term Care
We need to be able to supply these without requiring new medical evidence of insurability, and without pre-existing condition limits. Also, we committed to insuring non-members , ALPA says this is not possible.
Costs must be competitive.
Life insurance must be available as a "transfer" program.
We need specifics on plan design, limitations, or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.
We need to be able to refute the claim that by having the insurance companies responsible for the support, enrollment, billing and claim processing it will still be competitive cost-wise.
I've just spoken to Harvey Watt regarding my own insurance. To-date, they have no LOL insurance available for age 60-65. ALPA says, "ALPA is in the process of amending plans affected by the age change to incorporate extension of active members to age 65 where possible, without new evidence of insurability requirements." This will be a problem.
Insurance roll-over applications must be available so that on day one, a pilot is covered.
>From ALPA, "For a true transfer to occur, a USAPA member
would wake up in the morning after the ALPA termination with exactly the same terms. and no additional hoops to go through to keep what the member had with ALPA. We think it unlikely that any insurance carrier would go unprotected into that risky situation."
Then, there's Aeromedical. All the following is my opinion: Pete's a good guy, and highly respected. However, we're fussing around with him, and (to-date) he has said he will not work with/above/under Harvey Watt. Pete is developing his "own program." I believe there is zero chance that Pete could have a credible Aeromedical program, staffed by more than just Pete, up-and-running on day one. (If anyone noticed, he actually said, on video, that it would be difficult to replace ALPA Aeromedical and "of course it wouldn't all be running on day one." Wrong answer.) Spike's been talking to him, but we're not making any real headway. In my opinion, at the very least, it's Harvey Watt. It might be Harvey Watt with Pete as a liaison or over-seeing. It might be Harvey Watt with Pete taking the "difficult" cases.
It might be Harvey Watt now and Pete later. But it's Harvey Watt, with or without Pete, and we need to get a contract and plan setup ASAP. Spike was trying to setup a meeting with Pete on the 26th - Pete said he's unavailable the entire day. Spike's now working on afternoon or evening of the 25th.
Spike will be here, and I am available. While I am willing to do this with just Spike, it's not really my gig. He knows Steve B. better and Steve's President so I think, unless it is impossible Steve should be there too.
So, I believe we need, within the next very few days, the
following:
Commitments and contracts on all the above insurance products, with complete and full details
Aeromedical plan contracted and committed-to, with all plan details available
A commitment on our Line of Credit. The bank has had more than enough time to make this decision, and we now have an election. In my view I would call them on Monday, and let them know that absent a commitment by end-of-business we're shopping our business (which I think we should be doing anyway). I can get a signature loan for damn near a year's salary.
We're asking for a line of credit worth 13% of our annual CONTRACTED income.
I have multiple credit cards, each with 15-20% of my annual income in credit line. They should have committed two weeks ago.
Anything that is missing or unaddressed from all the above items will be picked-up on by ALPA.
I don't mean to be an alarmist Gents, but we have fires going everywhere which will be challenging enough; we shouldn't even be dealing with basic infrastructure and services 53 days out. By the end of this week, I would like to be able to address every one of the above items. At that point we'll be 47 days out. I believe our internal deadline for services and complete infrastructure should be 40 days, and not a day less. Even at that point we will start losing credibility and votes. After 30, ALPA will eat us alive.
Right now, 5,300 pilots have nothing more than our promise that they will have services, Reps, insurance and Aeromedical in 53 days. For a group as downtrodden as this, I'm amazed they've hung in there this long. I believe we will start losing them soon.
Again, not trying to scream too loud, but did I mention we have 53 days?
Scott
After receiving the above email, USAPA's fearless self-appointed leader, Steve Bradford, desperately forwarded it to Harvey Watt:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fwd: Insurance, Aeromedical and Line of Credit
xxx,
The other side is starting to beat us up. This is an election. One of USAPA's weapons in this election is Harvey Watt. We have no ammunition. We need product!
The "perfect is the enemy of the good." Please light a fire under your ING guys or whomever is going to supply this product and tell them that the other side is beating us because we cannot put contracts on the table.
Thanks
Steve Bradford
There are a few important things that can be learned from these emails:
Ø As recently as one month ago, USAPA had no true plan for insurance products. Had ALPA not sent out their insurance mailer, it is likely that USAPA may still not have an insurance plan.
Ø USAPA's Aeromedical Committee Chairman, Peter Lambrou M.D., conceded publicly that it would be difficult to replace ALPA Aeromedical.
Ø The future of USAPA Aeromedical is questionable at best.
Ø USAPA has serious funding issues, even though their leadership has made public assurances to the contrary.
Ø The USAPA leadership agrees that they shouldn't even be dealing with basic infrastructure issues so close to the election. Causes us to wonder how many other infrastructure issues there are?
Ø The USAPA leadership is not as confident in their level of support as they state publicly.
Ø Apparently ALPA's "noise" (USAPA's term) has teeth.
We have more where that came from, so stay tuned.
FUTURE AWAPPA UPDATES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are core union values?
USAPA rationalizes their greedy goal of stapling 90% of the America West pilots to the bottom of the seniority list by stating that "date-of-hire" is a core union value. Frankly, that assertion is not only fraudulent, but an insult to every card-carrying union member in this country. A brief review of unions and the labor movement convinces even the lay person that unions were founded upon "strength in numbers", a principle that USAPA is being founded in contradiction of. Unfortunately, that is a lesson that the USAPA leadership is going to learn the hard way.
What are USAPA's plans for negotiations?
During the March 11th & 12th road shows in Charlotte, a USAPA Officer admits that "we [USAPA] haven't talked a lot about negotiations". That was less than 3 weeks ago! And they're promising a quick contract, with no plan, no negotiating expertise, and (most importantly) no leverage?
Who has USAPA appointed to represent your interests?
This "democratic organization" has thus far unilaterally appointed each and every representative and committee member without the benefit of any democratic process. We've learned that many of the East rank-and-file are none too happy about some of these appointments. We figured that the USAPA leadership, without the "burden" of political accountability, would be able to select the brightest and most talented pilots available to fill these positions. We'll share with you what we've learned about some of the newly appointed pilots who will be responsible for providing you fair, unbiased representation if USAPA becomes the bargaining agent.
Quick Links...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AWAPPA Website
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
USAPA offers everything ALPA does at the same or better prices, and even from better companies (Harvey Watt, for example) with guaranteed acceptance. The insurance, loss of license, LTD and other issues have already been addressed by them.
They might very well win, but we all lose, especially the east, just some more self inflicted pain that the east thrives on.
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
Can we vote for AWAPPA? Is it a write-in vote?
- Status
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