US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 9/19- 9/27..

[Hawkhunter]

So let me get this straight.

If the Nicolau Award is in fact the law, you will continue to vote NO on ANY contract for the rest of your career until retirement?

Wow. That's showing those Westies......

As I said, a lot of pilots who voted for USAPA are going to be ready for a new contract, including the NIC, once the appeals process runs it's course. (If USAirways is still a going concern, that is.)

Its not all about you, even though you already got yours with DOH. Yes, vote no. How many is a lot? I sure dont fly with them.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Some of us at UAUA have been watching and taking notes about this train-wreck. While there are some varying opinions, I can report that there is a large sentiment over here about this notion of "we win, you gambled and lost" argument being put forward by many AWA pilots. That is no way to conduct a fair merger, and certainly not a "policy", it's a "crap-shoot" that you seem to be comfortable with since you out in PHX generally absorb ALL of US's built-in attrition which THEY brought to the table, not you. Therefore, it is widely thought out here that you are not entitled to it. I will not engage in banter over "final and binding" as you tend to do out in PHX, but will say that UAUA will not allow this type of mentality to occur should some announcement come out later about us. If it's not fair with NO obvious winfalls, it's not going to happen. Many predict UAUA will declare again, who knows, but that would never mean a 2004 DOH AWA pilot jumps up our list, you can believe that.

We'll be watching.

Thank you for seeing the truth. We are told from our West brothers that nobody supports those evil Easties and we are the laughing stock in the industry. Good luck.

 

[N1bugmeupflaps1]

Thank you for seeing the truth. We are told from our West brothers that nobody supports those evil Easties and we are the laughing stock in the industry. Good luck.

Thank you, and likewise. I will add this: We have witnessed the fleecing of pilots from almost every carrier, by every management..including ours. They hide behind financial statements and quarterly reports that they bend to suit their needs, and that has NO bearing on the seniority of the pilots OR their "expectations" going forward. Yes, there was a time that that was a consideration (IMO) but the reality of 10 years later at this company has changed many minds. "Expectations" get "managed" by greedy CEO's every day, consequently, a POLICY that is independently measurable and equally fair under varying circumstances and varying pilot groups is the best answer for the industry. We over here have too much time invested and sacrifices made to allow them to be frittered away in a flawed manner. That was not always the case, it is now.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

You two sound like an infomercial. An east pilot and a united pilot? Hmmmm.

 

[N1bugmeupflaps1]

You two sound like an infomercial. An east pilot and a united pilot? Hmmmm.

I don't care what you think. We know very well that we are actively being shopped by the crooks who run this place. And it has created some discussion among our ranks on what that might mean for us. There was a time I would have rubbed our fleet of whales, 777's, and 76/75's in your faces, and told you what I expected if I merged with you. We have parked and unparked the whales enough to know that it can all go away by the stroke of a pen by the suits upstairs. We are planning to avoid the fate of repeating your train-wreck.

 

[luvn737s]

You two sound like an infomercial. An east pilot and a united pilot? Hmmmm.

More like an east pilot and another east pilot with a new screen name.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

More like an east pilot and another east pilot with a new screen name.

 

[nic4us]

Some of us at UAUA have been watching and taking notes about this train-wreck. While there are some varying opinions, I can report that there is a large sentiment over here about this notion of "we win, you gambled and lost" argument being put forward by many AWA pilots. That is no way to conduct a fair merger, and certainly not a "policy", it's a "crap-shoot" that you seem to be comfortable with since you out in PHX generally absorb ALL of US's built-in attrition which THEY brought to the table, not you. Therefore, it is widely thought out here that you are not entitled to it. I will not engage in banter over "final and binding" as you tend to do out in PHX, but will say that UAUA will not allow this type of mentality to occur should some announcement come out later about us. If it's not fair with NO obvious winfalls, it's not going to happen. Many predict UAUA will declare again, who knows, but that would never mean a 2004 DOH AWA pilot jumps up our list, you can believe that.

First, I agree that there should not be a gamble involved in seniority integration, however, most of your opinion of how our list were combined is entirely false. The West does not absorb ALL of the east attrition, there are no fences that say every time an east pilot retires that position will be filled by a west pilot. All system wide attrition is shared by all pilots equally, as it should be.

Second, there were no windfalls in this integration, and I suspect there would be none in an arbitrated combination of any future merger. i.e. no 2004 hire jumped up the list they stayed right where they were on the combined list, which was at the bottom.

There is nothing wrong with the way the Nic list was constructed. The entire problem lies in the mentallity of the former USAirways pilots either never understanding or never coming to grips with the position they found themselves in. They have continually acted as though they were not negotiating, but they were dictating terms, and they never held a position to demand anything from anybody. When told by the company and their own ex-CEO to expect relative seniority, they signed petitions demanding DOH, when told by the arbitrator to back off and offer something else, they demanded DOH, when ALPA tried to steamroll the West and broker a better deal for them, they demanded DOH. So now that a federal court has told them that they have violated the rights of the West pilots, what do they do, continue to demand DOH.

They are like a spoiled child who is crying because the dog ate their candy bar, no matter how much they cry the candybar is not coming back, and it is only a matter of time before mama gives them something to cry about.

 

[N924PS]

Its not all about you, even though you already got yours with DOH. Yes, vote no. How many is a lot? I sure dont fly with them.

Not a majority yet, but once the appeal process is finished and the law is the law, you will see enough vote YES, given an acceptable contract outside Section 22.

 

[N1bugmeupflaps1]

More like an east pilot and another east pilot with a new screen name.

You guys are really something. Do a search on my posts.
I'm not debating you all day over this, we're having our own meltdown in LAX, with systemwide repercussions, so I gotta go for now...but we'll be watching.

 

[hp_fa]

Do a search on my posts.

An alleged UAUA pilot who has all of 7 posts, has never posted on the UAUA forum, all seven posts being in the US Airways thread and all seven posts finding a way to bash West folks.

What was it I was supposed to look at again, and why?

 

[Tiger 1050]

An alleged UAUA pilot who has all of 7 posts, has never posted on the UAUA forum, all seven posts being in the US Airways thread and all seven posts finding a way to bash West folks.

What was it I was supposed to look at again, and why?

I always thought airline pilots of such "experience" were smarter...

 

[N1bugmeupflaps1]

An alleged UAUA pilot who has all of 7 posts, has never posted on the UAUA forum, all seven posts being in the US Airways thread and all seven posts finding a way to bash West folks.

What was it I was supposed to look at again, and why?

This may shock you, but this board is not the only forum in the world, many of our conversations happen elsewhere. And regarding the "west bashing" statement: any other UA pilot who sides with AWA is free to post so. It should come as no surprise to you that we have been aware of our own perils and potential BK/merger scenarios. We simply intend to not have the same fate as AAA has after several of us have monitored your situation.
Why does an AWA flight attendant care anyway? Aren't you already merged by DOH?

Planes' here now, out.

 

[HPDriver]

Some of us at UAUA have been watching and taking notes about this train-wreck. While there are some varying opinions, I can report that there is a large sentiment over here about this notion of "we win, you gambled and lost" argument being put forward by many AWA pilots. That is no way to conduct a fair merger, and certainly not a "policy", it's a "crap-shoot" that you seem to be comfortable with since you out in PHX generally absorb ALL of US's built-in attrition which THEY brought to the table, not you. Therefore, it is widely thought out here that you are not entitled to it. I will not engage in banter over "final and binding" as you tend to do out in PHX, but will say that UAUA will not allow this type of mentality to occur should some announcement come out later about us. If it's not fair with NO obvious winfalls, it's not going to happen. Many predict UAUA will declare again, who knows, but that would never mean a 2004 DOH AWA pilot jumps up our list, you can believe that.

We'll be watching.

Nice try.

I've read the presentation the UAL MC gave to their MEC and the conclusion is completely opposite of what you just posted.

And I jumpseat on both UAL and SWA alot and have NEVER had a crew state anything other than total support for the west. Some of the SWA pilots were more educated on what was going on than most east pilots and could even tell the difference between and east and west ID.

You east guys must be getting desperate trying to play these games.

 

[Barrister]

First, I agree that there should not be a gamble involved in seniority integration, however, most of your opinion of how our list were combined is entirely false. The West does not absorb ALL of the east attrition, there are no fences that say every time an east pilot retires that position will be filled by a west pilot. All system wide attrition is shared by all pilots equally, as it should be.

Second, there were no windfalls in this integration, and I suspect there would be none in an arbitrated combination of any future merger. i.e. no 2004 hire jumped up the list they stayed right where they were on the combined list, which was at the bottom.

There is nothing wrong with the way the Nic list was constructed. The entire problem lies in the mentallity of the former USAirways pilots either never understanding or never coming to grips with the position they found themselves in. They have continually acted as though they were not negotiating, but they were dictating terms, and they never held a position to demand anything from anybody. When told by the company and their own ex-CEO to expect relative seniority, they signed petitions demanding DOH, when told by the arbitrator to back off and offer something else, they demanded DOH, when ALPA tried to steamroll the West and broker a better deal for them, they demanded DOH. So now that a federal court has told them that they have violated the rights of the West pilots, what do they do, continue to demand DOH.

They are like a spoiled child who is crying because the dog ate their candy bar, no matter how much they cry the candybar is not coming back, and it is only a matter of time before mama gives them something to cry about.

Above is your extremely dishonest post number 3. There are 80 west guys right now who can hold A330 Captain above our bottom reserve who could not touch it but for the NIC. The guy hired 2 weeks after me is 60% closer to the number 1 spot on the entire list. You can spin it as you like. These 2 groups will never fly together. Put the NIC back under your pillow and dream away.