US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 9/19- 9/27..

[700UW]

And Wilder's opinion means nothing, your grasping at straws.

 

[nic4us]

Translation: Even if Wakes injunction is not found illegal by the 9th circuit it is still meaningless. The Nicolau list is one very small piece of the pie to be divided by USAirways pilots through contract negotiations.

There are many possible variables pending including various court rulings, contract negotiations, merger, bankruptcy, liquidation, split-up, strike, etc.

Regardless of future events the one thing that is now absolutely certain is that the West pilots will never be able to cash in the Nicolau windfall thus terminating its potential injustice.

underpants

Translation: we are still seeking harm to the West and are going to continue to try and disadvantage the West at every opportunity. We can do what we want and do not have to listen to arbitrators and judges, because we are smarter than them and can figure out ways to weasel out of their decisions.

I suggest the usapa braintrust takes a closer look at the injunction, before the damages trial starts.

 

[nic4us]

Yo Nic,

Another Wilder quote:

In fact, the court admitted that US Airways has not responded to the USAPA proposal.

Hate

Well,,,,duh,,, Mr Wilder,,, of course USAirways has not responed, (actually I believe they responded by saying they already had a list and testified to as much in court), because they signed a contract that said seniority would be integrated using ALPA merger policy, and unlike certain pilots from the east, the company is trying to honor its contracts.

Wise decision on the company's part, kept them from being enjoined with usapa.

 

[aquagreen73s]

An interesting quote from the Airline Transport Association newswire today:

No. That's from Tim Reed, a local journalist in CLT who's record of accurately commenting on this lawsuit ranks right up there with Seham.

....."Most importantly, even if the appeal fails, the Nicolau list would be just an appendix to a contract with two to three dozen sections. If a majority of pilots oppose the appendix, negotiators would logically seek to overcome those objections in other sections, because no contract can be approved without a majority vote.

Perhaps Tim should have done a little research other than talking to Cleary and Seham, as page 49 of the Permanent Injunction addresses these end-arounds:

"USAPA will also be required to negotiate for the implementation of the Nicolau Award as part of any single CBA, unmodified by additional conditions and restrictions USAPA would place upon it."

I wonder what part of that plain language from Judge Wake is hard for Tim to understand.

The most absurd statement from Tim was the part where he says, "It's hard to imagine that federal judges could be convinced to rule on every section." That makes absolutely no sense in light of the extensive effort the Court put into the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. The Injunction specifically prohibits a dilution of the Nicolau Arbitration. Judge Wake wrote this injunction. Is Tim now suggesting that Judge Wake would not be inclined to enforce his own injunction? :huh:

 

[Captain Underpants]

I suggest the usapa braintrust takes a closer look at the injunction, before the damages trial starts.

Nic,

What you are saying is that USAPA is guilty of disadvantaging the West pilots by not advantaging them first. The damages you claim are the windfall defined.

You are claiming the west pilots are "damaged" by not using the Nicolau list. For that to be true you would have to prove in court that the Nicolau award is not fair and equitable thus producing a denied windfall which you then want to be paid in cash by east pilots.

Good luck with that.

You won't earn any respect with threats. If you want more wealth you will have to earn it by hard work outside the airline industry not by eliminating another pilots seniority and trying to cash in the Nic windfall.

I am hoping for an industry standard contract with fair and equitable seniority provisions that allow east and west pilots to have a productive professional working relationship. Try working with us and not against us to achieve the common goals of improving our profession.

underpants

 

[700UW]

Its Ted Reed he use to work for the Charlotte Observer, got fired then worked for US in corp communications and now is with TheStreet.com.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Its Ted Reed he use to work for the Charlotte Observer, got fired then worked for US in corp communications and now is with TheStreet.com.

Oops. Ted Reed. I said Tim. Now Megasnoop has some more ammo

 

[Captain Underpants]

Is Tim now suggesting that Judge Wake would not be inclined to enforce his own injunction? :huh:

Well even if Wake wanted to he has no authority to negotiate and ratify an unfair contract for the west pilots. USAPA has no authority to ratify an unfair contract. USAPA could I suppose try to negotiate a contract with a windfall for the west pilots but it would be impossible to ratify. USAPA would then be sued for a violation of duty of fair representation by east pilots starting the whole circus over again.

underpants

 

[cleardirect]

Its Ted Reed he use to work for the Charlotte Observer, got fired then worked for US in corp communications and now is with TheStreet.com.

Yes Ted Reed usapa's favorite pet reporter. Still can not get the facts right.

Read the injunction paragraph two. The Nicolau list will be used as written. There will be no fences or modifications in the other sections of the contract.

Where ever it says system seniority that means Nicolau. No other list or method will exist.

 

[cleardirect]

Nic,

What you are saying is that USAPA is guilty of disadvantaging the West pilots by not advantaging them first. The damages you claim are the windfall defined.

You are claiming the west pilots are "damaged" by not using the Nicolau list. For that to be true you would have to prove in court that the Nicolau award is not fair and equitable thus producing a denied windfall which you then want to be paid in cash by east pilots.

Good luck with that.

You won't earn any respect with threats. If you want more wealth you will have to earn it by hard work outside the airline industry not by eliminating another pilots seniority and trying to cash in the Nic windfall.

I am hoping for an industry standard contract with fair and equitable seniority provisions that allow east and west pilots to have a productive professional working relationship. Try working with us and not against us to achieve the common goals of improving our profession.

underpants

Obviously someone was not paying attention in class. Read the finding of facts and conclusion of law. It is on the USAPA web site take a minute and educate yourself.

A jury found USAPA liable of disadvantaging the west pilots by not using the Nicolau list and trying to substitute their own DOH list. The big point that the east is missing. The DFR was not about the fairness of the Nicolau. That was an arbitration. It was up to the east pilots to prove that fraud was committed to make the list unfair. That case was never brought.

So the federal court takes the list as true and correct. The judge did not look at fairness only what USAPA did with the list. It was Nicolau that determined the list and if a windfall existed, not judge Wake. Nicolau determined that DOH would have been a windfall for the east. That relative seniority was correct.

What is it going to take to make you understand that the seniority issue is settled? Any contract that we vote on is going to include the Nicolau list, that part of the contract is DONE.

I will say the same thing to you. “Try working with us and not against us.â€￾ Accept the list and move on to a better contract or don’t accept the list and move on to another job.

 

[cleardirect]

None, D, because USAPA's into collecting dues, not "nailing" pilots. No prize in that. In fact, we lose dues on termination. Suzie lost arbitration and had to pay or get terminated. Other than showing up to work drunk, this is about the only thing you can get yourself fired for by your own action/inaction.

Incorrect Better check with the higher ups. USAPA is actively trying to fire west pilots. Even after paying USAPA wanted to return the money and fire the pilots. Cleary wanted a scalp.

BTW shooting an airplane will get you fired also.

Oh please! You really think this kind of talk gets any East B/P up? Listen to Reed. There are subtle differences in S-29 language. Whatever you think, between Suzie and 4 (3/1) pilots barely getting by, USAPA dues/fees collection are nearing 100% compliance. Anyone now willing to roll the dice? A DFR based on what? Hard to single one out when almost everyone has complied.

I am disappointed. Your information is usually better this. Maybe compliance on the east side but west compliance is no where near 100%

All the while Hogg and Bular were telling us just don't dump 500 S-29 terminations on us all at once. Sounds like a failure to communicate.

How can USAPA dump 500 section 29’s if USAPA is near 100% compliance? Inquiring minds want to know. B)

 

[Captain Underpants]

Where ever it says system seniority that means Nicolau. No other list or method will exist.

Not true....your statement is only a false assumption not found in the Nic award or any court orders. A DOH list will always exist. You can't take away someone's DOH any more than you can take away his birthday. They are historical events that can't be changed.

If you have an advance copy of the future contract approved by all courts, signed by the company and USAPA and ratified by USAirways pilots please share it with the rest of us.

underpants

 

[traderjake]

Is Ted Reed the USAPA PR person? Sounds like a USAPA press release to me.

USAPA could I suppose try to negotiate a contract with a windfall for the west pilots but it would be impossible to ratify.

You can say the West got a windfall till the cows come home and you might even believe it but the last three seniority arbitrations say your wrong.

The truth is the East got the windfall because the widebody F/Os were slotted ahead of the Group Two Captains.

 

[Captain Underpants]

The truth is the East got the windfall because the widebody F/Os were slotted ahead of the Group Two Captains.

Now I get it. The West has been trying to force the Nic award to trick the East into thinking it was a windfall for the West to get USAPA to try to prevent the Nic from being implemented thus really denying the East pilots the real windfall.

Brilliant! How much do you think we can get in damages from the West pilots when we sue USAPA for DFR for delaying our windfall?

underpants

 

[john john]

I love a good smart A$$