TWU attempts to raid AMFA AMT's

[proAMT]

TWU info meetings, I love it.

I would love to see the TWU defend their record.

In 2003 it was," yeah we got beat up but at least we saved our retirement."

In 2012 they got our retirement.

Having the TWU represent you is like watching an aircraft in a slow death spiral.

Where I work our TWU baggage handlers were laid off and their replacements were minimum wage workers. These new low cost workers are represented by the good ol' TWU.

Go ahead vote them in... misery loves company.

 

[Overspeed]

Pure spin, The IBT was raiding UAL and telling the guys that they would make UAL bring all the work in house, despite the fact they never did that at UPS or WN when they were there. Joe was simply honestly answering the outrageus claims made by the IBT, similar to the way the TWU honestly responded to the IBTs claims that if elected here they would force the company to reopen the contract.

So tell us OS, when is the TWU going to force AA to bring all the work in house? After the next contract when we agree to work for minimum wage and no benefits?

I love it Bob. When an AMFA guy says that outsourcing is here to stay you defend him. Classic Bob. You cherry pick facts to fit your argument. The TWU successfully kept work in-house that all other unions, especially AMFA gave away at UA (did not enforce the scope clause resulting in the rest of airframe being outsourced), rolled on the AS overhaul base AMTs in OAK, and completely capitulated at NW when they were driven out in an ill-conceived strike. You out did yourself this time Bob with your lies and distortions.

The facts are the facts, 15,000 AMFA members are no longer working. They did not all get jobs at WN, JetBlue, and UPS. Those airlines hired for sure but not 15,000 people Bob. No way. The BLS in a 2011 report on airline employment clearly shows that the majority of people that lost their jobs make much less than they made working at the previous jobs. You lie and tell people don't worry that even if they lose their jobs in the "fight" they will get better jobs but that's BS and the facts prove it. Yes AA has cut jobs but not because of outsourcing prior to BK, it was because AA shrank from over 800 aircraft to barely 600. Those jobs were NOT outsourced like with AMFA represented airlines.

And let's look at BK, the TWU did a way better job in BK. No union got their members a buyout while in BK. None. Did AMFA at NW? No. Did AMFA get a buyout for the jobs AS outsourced and they were not in BK? No. Did AMFA get a buyout for their members who lost their jobs due to outsourcing in BK? No.

The TWU has done a better job of protecting jobs. Yes they make $33/hour but that is more than the AMTs working airframe overhaul at NW, UA, and AS. They are making nothing because their jobs got outsourced because they were represented so well by AMFA.

And let's look at your complaint about giving up pay for jobs at the TWU. That's more BS. Tell the truth Bob, you cry about not making UA/CO wages now but you had that in hand in 2010 under the TWU Int'l recommended TA but you said that was a bad deal then. You would still be getting that now but the truth be told, you wanted more for you and less for overhaul. Much less. You wanted the AMFA plan where overhaul is sacrificed for line AMTs making more pay.

Classic Bob. Lie and distort the facts.

 

[Overspeed]

Having the TWU represent you is like watching an aircraft in a slow death spiral.

Then having AMFA represent you must be like watching a kamikaze plane diving in to a ship. BANZAI!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Then having AMFA represent you must be like watching a kamikaze plane diving in to a ship. BANZAI!

O/S

Invite the SWA mechanics to a informational meeting held by the TWU lets see how many show up?

The IBT had an info meeting here in Miami 16 guys showed, Thats all.. from 10am thru 8pm

Amfa had a info meeting in Miami 130 showed up, even some title II which signed IBT cards and now after seeing and talking with AMFA's National Officers signed AMFA cards.

 

[Overspeed]

O/S

Invite the SWA mechanics to a informational meeting held by the TWU lets see how many show up?

The IBT had an info meeting here in Miami 16 guys showed, Thats all.. from 10am thru 8pm

Amfa had a info meeting in Miami 130 showed up, even some title II which signed IBT cards and now after seeing and talking with AMFA's National Officers signed AMFA cards.

And that MIA meeting...wow what a barn burner. Had to offer a raffle and free hamburgers to get people to come out.

 

[Bob Owens]

Look how Overspin works;

No, AMFA gave up on fighting outsourcing. From AMFA Local 9 President Prisco following AMFA's defeat at UA.

‘The Teamsters aren’t very informed about MRO [Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul facilities] and what the changes have been for the last 20 years. Their basic position is all work should be done at the airlines. Well, that ain’t going to happen. That argument should have been made 20 years ago, when the outsourcing trend was starting’, he said.”

Note how OS tells you what Joe is saying prior to the comment. Keep in mind that OS admits in his original post that this was after the IBT ousted AMFA at UAL. For those who don’t know the IBT claimed that if they elect the IBT that the IBT would make UAL bring all the work back in house. If you didn’t know that and now you do it’s easy to see how OS is taking Joe Prisco’s comment out of context. The IBT still has not delivered on their promise. It should also be noted that the members at UAL have elected Joe as their representative under the IBT as well. Obviously they still see him as a trustworthy representative.



Then that becomes this;

Prisco the AMFA Local 9 President stated that keeping work in-house is not going to happen. He admitted what I have been saying all along, AMFA has given up on overhaul.

No spin. Your guy's words.

My guys words, no, Overspins spin. Where does Joe say that AMFA has given up on OH? The fact is the TWU had agreed to outsourcing as far back as 1950, with the adoption of the CR Smith letter in the contract. Notice how he doesnt put Joes words there, he puts his, then claims they are Joe's. "Your guys words"



So OS takes some liberties with the comment by leaving out some very pertinent facts, and adding his own. Ok, that can be written off as ‘interpretation’. But that’s not all he does. Having repeated his false assertions on what he thinks Joe meant he advances to complete fabrication. This is a tactic we often see on Foxs’s ORielly.

AMFA isn't going to fight for overhaul. He said it. AMFA won't even fight for it. They give up on overhaul everywhere they go. NW, UA, and AS. Great job AMFA. Overhaul your job is no worth fighting for.

He said AMFA isnt going to fight for OH? Where? He simply stated that ALL work was not going to be done in house. It never was at AA, and never will be, but that didnt stop the IBT from using that as their battle cry to get into the UAL.


So Joes original comment, went from stating that the IBT wasn’t aware of the MRO business and that their position that ALL work be done at the airlines isn’t gonna happen (never has as even OS admits that) becomes “ AMFA isn't going to fight for overhaul. He said it. AMFA won't even fight for it.”.
Thats spin.
He not only does this to people who arent here to correct him but he goes even further here, accusing people of writing things they didnt write then building a whole agruement around it. Another OReilly tactic.

 

[Bob Owens]

Its one thing when OS fabricates things in his exchanges with others on this board, his lies are easily refuted, but its unconscionable for him to drag Joe Prisco, a proven leader of mechanics, into his deceptive schemes.

 

[Overspeed]

So Joes original comment, went from stating that the IBT wasn’t aware of the MRO business and that their position that ALL work be done at the airlines isn’t gonna happen (never has as even OS admits that) becomes “ AMFA isn't going to fight for overhaul. He said it. AMFA won't even fight for it.”.
Thats spin.
He not only does this to people who arent here to correct him but he goes even further here, accusing people of writing things they didnt write then building a whole agruement around it. Another OReilly tactic.

Very good Bob. You can read but you are the one that distorts. Prisco (the good union guy) stated that the IBT doesn't understand the MRO industry. Apparently AMFA and Prisco do by his explanation that the IBT's "basic position" that overhaul should all be done in-house "ain't going to happen." AMFA has given up on overhaul and they ain't got no fight. No spin Bob. AMFA gave up and are apparently blaming the unions in the past. Like that great union at Ozark. The contract was so good that when they were absorbed by TWA more work had to be brought in-house and TWA had to hire because of the IAM agreement. Who was that union that represented Ozark? Oh that's right...AMFA.

 

[Overspeed]

Its one thing when OS fabricates things in his exchanges with others on this board, his lies are easily refuted, but its unconscionable for him to drag Joe Prisco, a proven leader of mechanics, into his deceptive schemes.

So when Don V tells you that outsourcing is a viable threat he is a liar and weak. Now I cite Prisco at AMFA saying that the outsourcing fight is lost and you say he tells the truth. You have integrity...NOT!

 

[1AA]

And that MIA meeting...wow what a barn burner. Had to offer a raffle and free hamburgers to get people to come out.

. At least Miami had a meeting that turned better than the teamsters. What will the twu offer? Lies deceit and false promises. Sounds like you were at the meeting or one of your cronies filled you in on the success of the meeting. Setup a meeting with the guys at SWA if you have any nads. Then go and criticize amfas meetings. Until then you have no room to talk.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

Let's tally this up, shall we? Nine pages of TWU Raiding AMFA and it consists mostly of Non Southwest employees. Gents, I do understand your arguement but can see no point in going on & on over trivial BS in the he said/she said arguement mode. The one thing I do see in all of this is, airlines are going to out source MX whether you like it or not, Union or No Union and it doesn't matter which one. It's the way of the world and how the business is changing and you all can argue till the cows come home but it won't make a difference in the end! It is slowly evolving away from Union power, chip by chip, little by little, and if you think your paying dues and demanding what you think is right will win in the end, be my guest to continue to be martayr's. I am not anti-union, I just see what is happening. Cheers
QA

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

And that MIA meeting...wow what a barn burner. Had to offer a raffle and free hamburgers to get people to come out.

O/S the IBT said they would have something as well but it was water,coffee, soda and can't say for sure I think small cakes or cookies. I just had water..They did have lanyards and buttons as well. TW our resident pancake mechanic did such a great job they only had 16 show up for their informational meeting.
They then came to a spot out side the hanger to give away T-shirts.

Showed up on the day of MY organized AMFA meeting and left without many if any at all walking across the street to the small awning they had with their T-shirts again.

I have over 90 % of all the Title I mechanics here in Miami.

ASK the pancake boys how well they are doing? The title II guys have signed cards for the IBT but have not been able to give any real reason for it. Even the guys pushing the IBT Hate the TWU. They want the TWU gone as bad as we do (AMT'S)

When I have asked the Facilities and GSE guys about the IBT not many cal tell me any more about them than what the IBT has on their flyers. So as you see they have not done any research. Its just a fear that the TWU and IBT put into them so that AMFA will not get into AA. "YES" we have tried many times here at AA but before the TWU had some supporters. But the TWU has burned the last bridge with this contract and allowing AFW to be closed. Contracting out work when they said we bring work in.

Well tell that to all the AFW mechanics that have left and those that will be transferring or bumping into the system. Great job TWU Keep up the Good work.

The more you screw up the faster we will get enough cards to rid AA of your Bend over and take it way of negotiations.

 

[Bob Owens]

So when Don V tells you that outsourcing is a viable threat he is a liar and weak.

Did I say that? Like I said you make things up then build an argument around it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Very good Bob. You can read but you are the one that distorts. Prisco (the good union guy) stated that the IBT doesn't understand the MRO industry. Apparently AMFA and Prisco do by his explanation that the IBT's "basic position" that overhaul should all be done in-house "ain't going to happen." AMFA has given up on overhaul and they ain't got no fight. No spin Bob.

"All done in house". When has it ever been that way at AA? You said yourself that UA used to have more mechanics than AA, and I noted that AA used to be bigger than UA. How was it that a smaller UA had more mechanics than a larger AA-Outsourcing. Now its the opposite. You spun Joe's statement I called you on it now you are trying to bring OZARK into the debate. As far as I know he never worked for OZARK, so why bring it in? Spin, spin, spin.

 

[Bob Owens]

Let's tally this up, shall we? Nine pages of TWU Raiding AMFA and it consists mostly of Non Southwest employees. Gents, I do understand your arguement but can see no point in going on & on over trivial BS in the he said/she said arguement mode. The one thing I do see in all of this is, airlines are going to out source MX whether you like it or not, Union or No Union and it doesn't matter which one. It's the way of the world and how the business is changing and you all can argue till the cows come home but it won't make a difference in the end! It is slowly evolving away from Union power, chip by chip, little by little, and if you think your paying dues and demanding what you think is right will win in the end, be my guest to continue to be martayr's. I am not anti-union, I just see what is happening. Cheers
QA

Well what it comes down to is OS is saying that the guys at SWA should be willing to take a $10hr paycut, give away two weeks of vacation, cut their holidays down to 5 and only get half pay if they work, do away with double time, give up retiree medical, give back 3% of the 401k, reduce their sick bank to 5 days, first at half pay, reduce their IOD to 10 days, give up their OT rules, FT rules, pay more for medical and more that I cant think of off the top of my head so WN can bring more OH in house and hire A&P mechanics that simply do not exist.