TWU attempts to raid AMFA AMT's

[swamt]

Okay. I would love to see it. It doesn't exist. AMFA has been at the helm of Mesaba in BK and they don't exist anymore. UA rolled on overhaul.

“‘The mechanics decided to take a different path, so we’ll have to see what happens,’ Prisco said. ‘The Teamsters aren’t very informed about MRO [Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul facilities] and what the changes have been for the last 20 years. Their basic position is all work should be done at the airlines. Well, that ain’t going to happen. That argument should have been made 20 years ago, when the outsourcing trend was starting’, he said.”

Holy crap an AMFA local president said that all work cannot be done by an airline in house?!?! That's a roll over on overhaul. The TWU is not rolling over on overhaul like AMFA.

NW is an epic fail.

So lets see how awesome AMFA has done in BK. I can't wait.

It does exist. You see this is exacally why no one believes you. The AMFA informational meetings have outlined this info that is right in the UAL contract. It's all there. I do not have their contract. But we all read it right out of the contract when it was provided. AMFA did in fact nego better protections for UAL in BK. Period. I will not seek out this info for you, I am so tired of doing what you should do for yourself, if someone wishes to post it, then so beit. It's there and you know it's there, all this topic was discussed even long prior to the AMFA info meetings started, so the info team put the info together and took the UAL contract IAM and AMFA to prove the differences. It all there chief in black and white...

 

[swamt]

Well when Bob admits his true intentions of bad mouthing the TWU while serving as an officer happens is okay then I will answer his question. He was an AMFA organizer before and he is one now but won't admit it why? Because he plays both sides of the fence.

And we all give him alot more credit than you. Now, what does that say about you.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well when Bob admits his true intentions of bad mouthing the TWU while serving as an officer happens is okay then I will answer his question. He was an AMFA organizer before and he is one now but won't admit it why? Because he plays both sides of the fence.

Are you talking about Bobby Gless? He is the only AMFA organizer by that name I know. Saw him tell the members to sign AMFA cards when he was President of Local 562 as well, and criticize the TWU, of course now that the TWU pays him $180k he doesnt do that anymore.

Heard how Big Don said Koziatek "had to go" then listened to him thank him at his retirement party for being his "mentor". Ed taught him well, Don has done more damage to the profession than Ed ever dreamed of.

I play one side, the side thats good for mechanics.

I tell it as I see it, and unlike you I dont lie a spin things and ignore inconvient questions.

The fact is the TWU has done a lousy job and I didnt run for office to escape the floor, I ran to try and make it better. My objective when I took this job, and the reason I stay is to try and change the TWU, not suck my way through it to escape the floor.

You avoid the issue of changing the BK law, there the TWU would have the opportunity , along with the AFL-CIO to show the members that affilation means something, but the fact is you dont really believe that do you? Because you are the one playing both sides of the fence, calling yourself a unionist while working on behalf of management, making sure they get whatever they want.

If you think that the card drive at SWA is going to change the way members feel about the TWU you are wrong, in fact it only reinforces the common belief that they only care about dues, but, if the TWU were to set about changing the BK law then it would show them that the TWU really is trying to address the problems in the system that adversely affect the members. When the TWU voted against supporting Obama-care that didnt help. Now they have the opportunity to fight for us, but what do they do, they try picking a fight with the smallest union in the industry. Even if the TWU won , what would it prove? That they could beat AMFA? AMFA never hurt us, if anything most of us believe if not for AMFA we would have gone into the concessions of 2003 at $25/hr instead of $37, our hourly wage after the concessions of 2003 would have been less than they were prior to the raises we got in 2001, like Stores and Fleet service.

You come here and cite how in BK we wre screwed , that the courts will even allow a company to slash the wages of people who are already at the bottom of the industry, that they dont care what others pay, how labor is at a disadvantage in BK but yet you dont support addressing that. You simply ignore it. So should we take your silence as liking the law the way it is, so this way you can promote your agenda that low wages are good for us?

My peers are not impressed by the raid on WN, however if the TWU and the AFL-CIO were to take on the BK laws and try and get Justice and a level playing field, at least what other creditors and workers have in bk, then they may feel differently about the organization. Are they here to fight for us or only to fight to get more dues payers? Which is it?

 

[superman32870]

Cold day in hell before I sign a TWUblow card​

 

[Overspeed]

Sokol loves AMFA the enablers of more outsourcing of jobs to low wage MROs than any other union. Way to go professional negotiators.

All this was set well over 28 years ago when the teamsters started all the outsoursing at SWA. That is easily followed and proven. AMFA is still working on all the holes that the teamsters left. You statement above just proves that all the outsoursing at SWA was started and allowed by the teamsters 28 year record here, not AMFA chief, keep trying though...

I'm not arguing for the IBT. I'm arguing for the TWU. AMFA has not worked in the best interests of overhaul. AMFA Local 9 President clearly stated that the days of all in-house maintenance are over. AMFA gave up on overhaul. Nice.

 

[Overspeed]

Are you talking about Bobby Gless? He is the only AMFA organizer by that name I know. Saw him tell the members to sign AMFA cards when he was President of Local 562 as well, and criticize the TWU, of course now that the TWU pays him $180k he doesnt do that anymore.

Heard how Big Don said Koziatek "had to go" then listened to him thank him at his retirement party for being his "mentor". Ed taught him well, Don has done more damage to the profession than Ed ever dreamed of.

I play one side, the side thats good for mechanics.

I tell it as I see it, and unlike you I dont lie a spin things and ignore inconvient questions.

The fact is the TWU has done a lousy job and I didnt run for office to escape the floor, I ran to try and make it better. My objective when I took this job, and the reason I stay is to try and change the TWU, not suck my way through it to escape the floor.

You avoid the issue of changing the BK law, there the TWU would have the opportunity , along with the AFL-CIO to show the members that affilation means something, but the fact is you dont really believe that do you? Because you are the one playing both sides of the fence, calling yourself a unionist while working on behalf of management, making sure they get whatever they want.

If you think that the card drive at SWA is going to change the way members feel about the TWU you are wrong, in fact it only reinforces the common belief that they only care about dues, but, if the TWU were to set about changing the BK law then it would show them that the TWU really is trying to address the problems in the system that adversely affect the members. When the TWU voted against supporting Obama-care that didnt help. Now they have the opportunity to fight for us, but what do they do, they try picking a fight with the smallest union in the industry. Even if the TWU won , what would it prove? That they could beat AMFA? AMFA never hurt us, if anything most of us believe if not for AMFA we would have gone into the concessions of 2003 at $25/hr instead of $37, our hourly wage after the concessions of 2003 would have been less than they were prior to the raises we got in 2001, like Stores and Fleet service.

You come here and cite how in BK we wre screwed , that the courts will even allow a company to slash the wages of people who are already at the bottom of the industry, that they dont care what others pay, how labor is at a disadvantage in BK but yet you dont support addressing that. You simply ignore it. So should we take your silence as liking the law the way it is, so this way you can promote your agenda that low wages are good for us?

My peers are not impressed by the raid on WN, however if the TWU and the AFL-CIO were to take on the BK laws and try and get Justice and a level playing field, at least what other creditors and workers have in bk, then they may feel differently about the organization. Are they here to fight for us or only to fight to get more dues payers? Which is it?

Bob if Gless did that take it up with him.

"Damage?" Are you kidding me? AMFA has destroyed the professions. AMFA even admitted that they have given up on overhaul. They consider overhaul expendable. Fight? They have never fought. When AMFA was booted out of UA the Local 9 president that UA members bought in to the idea that all work could be done by in-house staff. AMFA considers overhaul expendable just like you Bob. As long as you get yours thats all you care about.

The TWU has done a great job when you consider it won't roll over on its overhaul members who also pay dues to be represented. Overhaul jobs are not for you to trade out for more pay for you Bob. That's why you are not a true union member. Union members stick together not sell out other people's jobs for geo-pay like you are willing to do.

And when every other airline union that represents M&R has gone through BK and got shafted I do not believe the outcome would have been better for us. But you know that which is what you were hoping for. You were hoping Judge Lane would have done what you had be longing for, dumped overhaul and you could blame it on him and the screwed up BK laws. But you would have had your geo-pay Bob. US, UA, and NW all were cut more than once in 1113e proceedings and we were never cut. They all got the medical costs increased as well. Bob you are completely wrong. We and CO made more and had better benefits than anyone. You had a pension, higher wages, we kept the same outsourcing percentage (10%), and we paid less in healthcare coverage while BK judges proceeded to cut out all UA, US, and NW's compensation packages. So yes, the judge CAN do that to us even though you try to tell everyone otherwise.

 

[1AA]

Well when Bob admits his true intentions of bad mouthing the TWU while serving as an officer happens is okay then I will answer his question. He was an AMFA organizer before and he is one now but won't admit it why? Because he plays both sides of the fence.

The fence is there because guys like you put it up. We need to get rid of the fence and work to improve our craft. But you have your own agenda and it involves attacking other unions and others who disagree with you. How are those TWU cards coming along? Just as fast as the Teamsters? ROLMFAO

 

[swamt]

I'm not arguing for the IBT. I'm arguing for the TWU. AMFA has not worked in the best interests of overhaul. AMFA Local 9 President clearly stated that the days of all in-house maintenance are over. AMFA gave up on overhaul. Nice.

AMFA has never gave up on overhaul. AMFA has and will fight and protect all mechanics out there that they represent. Even some they don't represent. AMFA treats all mechs the same, get over this issue of division amoungst mech groups within AMFA, they have already proven their equal representation of all in craft and related to the largest extent possible, by not only showing support for others in rival unions, but by actions of the AMFA attorney going that extra step of "action" to prove it.
As stated before, I do not know what happend at AS. I do know it was not AMFA letting go of maint facilities at UAL, it was, in fact, IAM language that agreed to this, that the membership voted on, and then shortly after that, AMFA was brought in, and they were forced to live with the current contract that the IAM was in charge of nego, not AMFA.. Keep repeating your lies, even you might start believing them. Carry on sir...

 

[swamt]

Face the facts; TWU will not make it in at SWA. They now have a less of a chance than the teamsters did when they tried. Too many decades of concessions of pay, job losses, outsoursing, and bennies. It's been going on for 30 plus years and now the AA mechs will have to live with the current one for another 6 years on top of that. Yea, rah rah, let's go TWU-----NOT!!!

 

[Birdman]

The TWU has made many AMT's at AA proud to be agency fee objector's, myself going on 13 years. Some are gladly paying dues to AMFA at WN now and some of us will soon be rid of the TWU f-o-r-e-v-e-r.

 

[Bob Owens]

"Damage?" Are you kidding me? AMFA has destroyed the professions. AMFA even admitted that they have given up on overhaul. They consider overhaul expendable. Fight? They have never fought.

And when every other airline union that represents M&R has gone through BK and got shafted I do not believe the outcome would have been better for us.

Hmm, refuse to reply to Gless comment but defend Don. Of course you skipped how he kissed Eds behind after demanding his removal, "my mentor".

Keep trying to spin Joe Prisco's comments. He's more of a Union man than you will ever be, his peers elected him under the IAM, AMFA and the IBT. By the way he was elected by Overhaul mechanics at UAL. Obviously they dont feel that he sold them out. He is still representing mechanics at SFO.

The fact is that when our peers had nearly all their maintenance in house we had the CR Smith letter that explicitly allowed outsourcing, then we removed A&Ps from receive and dispatch, hundreds less mechanics needed across the system, then Deicing, less OT for mechanics, then we were the first to remove A&P mechanics at A&P rates from the shops and replace them with SRPs. We were the first to have B scale, the only one to have a 12 year progression, the only one to lose the first year on the pension, we did those things while other carriers had as much or more of their maint in house. The fact is we never did ALL of our maintenance in house and prior to 2001 we were the leader in Outsourcing among the legacy carriers.


"when every other airline union that represents M&R has gone through BK"


So is the strategy to leave BK as it is until WN goes through BK? What if that doesn't happen and in 2020 AA makes another trip to the old customs house in Manhattan? You are a sick evil person and a plague upon the profession.

 

[Overspeed]

Hmm, refuse to reply to Gless comment but defend Don. Of course you skipped how he kissed Eds behind after demanding his removal, "my mentor".

Keep trying to spin Joe Prisco's comments. He's more of a Union man than you will ever be, his peers elected him under the IAM, AMFA and the IBT. By the way he was elected by Overhaul mechanics at UAL. Obviously they dont feel that he sold them out. He is still representing mechanics at SFO.

The fact is that when our peers had nearly all their maintenance in house we had the CR Smith letter that explicitly allowed outsourcing, then we removed A&Ps from receive and dispatch, hundreds less mechanics needed across the system, then Deicing, less OT for mechanics, then we were the first to remove A&P mechanics at A&P rates from the shops and replace them with SRPs. We were the first to have B scale, the only one to have a 12 year progression, the only one to lose the first year on the pension, we did those things while other carriers had as much or more of their maint in house. The fact is we never did ALL of our maintenance in house and prior to 2001 we were the leader in Outsourcing among the legacy carriers.


"when every other airline union that represents M&R has gone through BK"


So is the strategy to leave BK as it is until WN goes through BK? What if that doesn't happen and in 2020 AA makes another trip to the old customs house in Manhattan? You are a sick evil person and a plague upon the profession.

Wow! Sick evil person? That's all you got? That's awesome!

I said if you saw Gless signing up people for AMFA then do whatever you have to do Bob. Take him out. Don did what? Take him out Bob. Where's the charges?

I don't have to spin Prisco's comments. He said it himself as an AMFA president that outsourcing is here and they can't fight it. Great job and you approve based on your comments. That's what you want Bob just what AMFA wants. A pay day for an ever shrinking group of AMTs. When does it stop? Probably when it gets to you Bob and that my brother is evil.

You aren't a union guy, you only stick up for the group your in which is line. AMFA has only stood up for the line AMT. They tried to dump facilities and automotive in the past from class and craft. But you love AMFA Bob.

Bob as union officer you are now admitting that you, like your friends at AMFA, did not understand the existing laws we operate under in our industry? So you,like AMFA advised the membership to vote down a deal and risk going on strike when you knew, like AMFA, that management could abrogate the contracts? Seham has a job for you in his law firm Bob. You're first rate.

Fact is that the TWU has done better than any other union retaining jobs and benefits in BK. TWU has negotiated a far better contract on Southwest property than AMFA. TWU negotiated a great agreement for Tech Specs and Dispatchers that survived relatively unscathed through BK and they listened to the TWU Int'l and the attorneys in BK.

I can't wait until our fellow Southwest AMTs join up.

 

[Overspeed]

Face the facts; TWU will not make it in at SWA. They now have a less of a chance than the teamsters did when they tried. Too many decades of concessions of pay, job losses, outsoursing, and bennies. It's been going on for 30 plus years and now the AA mechs will have to live with the current one for another 6 years on top of that. Yea, rah rah, let's go TWU-----NOT!!!

I just heard another TWU authorization card drop in the mail slot.

 

[1AA]

I can't wait until our fellow Southwest AMTs join up.

The only thing they will join up on if the TWU gets their way is the unemployment line.
But that will NEVER happen. Keep dropping those blank cards in the mail.

 

[Overspeed]

AMFA has never gave up on overhaul. AMFA has and will fight and protect all mechanics out there that they represent. Even some they don't represent. AMFA treats all mechs the same, get over this issue of division amoungst mech groups within AMFA, they have already proven their equal representation of all in craft and related to the largest extent possible, by not only showing support for others in rival unions, but by actions of the AMFA attorney going that extra step of "action" to prove it.
As stated before, I do not know what happend at AS. I do know it was not AMFA letting go of maint facilities at UAL, it was, in fact, IAM language that agreed to this, that the membership voted on, and then shortly after that, AMFA was brought in, and they were forced to live with the current contract that the IAM was in charge of nego, not AMFA.. Keep repeating your lies, even you might start believing them. Carry on sir...

No, AMFA gave up on fighting outsourcing. From AMFA Local 9 President Prisco following AMFA's defeat at UA.

‘The Teamsters aren’t very informed about MRO [Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul facilities] and what the changes have been for the last 20 years. Their basic position is all work should be done at the airlines. Well, that ain’t going to happen. That argument should have been made 20 years ago, when the outsourcing trend was starting’, he said.”