TWU attempts to raid AMFA AMT's

[WNMECH]

Well what it comes down to is OS is saying that the guys at SWA should be willing to take a $10hr paycut, give away two weeks of vacation, cut their holidays down to 5 and only get half pay if they work, do away with double time, give up retiree medical, give back 3% of the 401k, reduce their sick bank to 5 days, first at half pay, reduce their IOD to 10 days, give up their OT rules, FT rules, pay more for medical and more that I cant think of off the top of my head so WN can bring more OH in house and hire A&P mechanics that simply do not exist.

If we have to give up triple time, paid rest and day trades also, then you can count me out.

We would also lose control of our local, our money, our negotiations and not be able to have observers as well.

And I was just about ready to jump on that TWU train too.

But hey that is just the TWU way.
Give up pay and benefits and jobs to boot.

 

[Overspeed]

Well what it comes down to is OS is saying that the guys at SWA should be willing to take a $10hr paycut, give away two weeks of vacation, cut their holidays down to 5 and only get half pay if they work, do away with double time, give up retiree medical, give back 3% of the 401k, reduce their sick bank to 5 days, first at half pay, reduce their IOD to 10 days, give up their OT rules, FT rules, pay more for medical and more that I cant think of off the top of my head so WN can bring more OH in house and hire A&P mechanics that simply do not exist.

So you admit it. Finally. That in order to get higher wages and benefits you have to give up jobs. Thank you Bob. You have fully explained the AMFA way better than I ever could. Jobs for raises for an ever shrinking group. Now if only AMFA had told all those NW, UA, and AS AMTs that lost their jobs beforehand they would still be IBT or IAM and be employed.

Bob, you always know how to hit the nail on the head. A vote for AMFA is a vote to give up jobs.

 

[Overspeed]

"All done in house". When has it ever been that way at AA? You said yourself that UA used to have more mechanics than AA, and I noted that AA used to be bigger than UA. How was it that a smaller UA had more mechanics than a larger AA-Outsourcing. Now its the opposite. You spun Joe's statement I called you on it now you are trying to bring OZARK into the debate. As far as I know he never worked for OZARK, so why bring it in? Spin, spin, spin.

And I corrected you. Size does not matter in this case. Like you so aptly noted earlier WN has a single fleet type so the comparison to AA is flawed. Well AA did not have as many WBs, particularly 747s, like UA so they needed more people to do the work. See Bob, you just lack critical thinking skills which goes to your one-dimensional thinking.

You are probably the mechanic who claims its always the valve so just change it then find out there is a broken wire.

 

[Overspeed]

The more you screw up the faster we will get enough cards to rid AA of your Bend over and take it way of negotiations.

And based on your responses and AMFA's "success" record you will be joining your 15,000 AMFA brothers and sisters who used to work for UA, AS, and NW.

I won't. I'll still be working and unfortunately listening to Bob rant about how AMFA let all the jobs go under your dream scenario.

AMFA, 15,000 members less due to outsourcing. Proof of a record of success in the cause of organized labor.

 

[1AA]

So you admit it. Finally. That in order to get higher wages and benefits you have to give up jobs. Thank you Bob. You have fully explained the AMFA way better than I ever could. Jobs for raises for an ever shrinking group. Now if only AMFA had told all those NW, UA, and AS AMTs that lost their jobs beforehand they would still be IBT or IAM and be employed.

Bob, you always know how to hit the nail on the head. A vote for AMFA is a vote to give up jobs.

. The only jobs we will lose with AMFA is the appointed, blood sucking leaches international officers such as yourself. That I'm willing to lose because it will net us a big gain.

 

[Bob Owens]

So you admit it. Finally. That in order to get higher wages and benefits you have to give up jobs.

Seems as usual you only see what you want to see,

""Well what it comes down to is OS is saying.

Spinning so fast I guess you missed it. I never bought into the BS that we had to trade away good wages and benefits to keep jobs in house. I believe there is value to the quality and control that "In house" brings. I've repeatedy cited that. Spin Spin Spin

 

[Bob Owens]

And I corrected you. Size does not matter in this case. Like you so aptly noted earlier WN has a single fleet type so the comparison to AA is flawed. Well AA did not have as many WBs, particularly 747s, like UA so they needed more people to do the work. See Bob, you just lack critical thinking skills which goes to your one-dimensional thinking.

You corrected me? Oh yes spin time again.

You are the one who runs around saying that if AA had WNs contract we would only have 2000 mechanics, you apply the SWA mechanic to airplane ratio to AA without considering fleet makeop or operations, which is what drives our ratio up, not our contract. Are you now admitting that even if we had the WN contract that the AA mechanic to airplane ratio would be higher than it is at WN and the number you have been throwing out there for years is wrong?

Now you spin around and say UAL had more mechanics than us because of their fleet type. OK, but it probably also helped that their mechanics were still doing R&D and Deicing long after we had given that away to lower paid TWU members.

So why would fleet type be headcount driver at UAL but not at AA? UAL has dumped most of those 747s, so are you now saying that some of the job loss at UAL was due to changes in the fleet and the addition of new aircraft?

See Bob, you just lack critical thinking skills which goes to your one-dimensional thinking.

Better than your delusional thinking.

 

[[email protected]]

Go away

 

[[email protected]]

You are so fucjing anoying AA

 

[[email protected]]

Jesus enough already???? No one cares

 

[[email protected]]

Go away already !!!!!!!!

 

[555_in_PDX]

Here is my two cents. I am a proud TWU Local 555 member. We have an industry leading contract and currently in mediation to amend our contract for our future. Any union is only as strong as it members. If you have membership that stays uninvolved in the entire process then your local will be week. My local is strong (and has room to strengthen) and works for its membership. 556 and 550 are both strong locals as well. So whatever union you are in you need to become an advocate for the process and educate the people around you. It is what I do on a daily basis.

 

[lineguy43]

Here is my two cents. I am a proud TWU Local 555 member. We have an industry leading contract and currently in mediation to amend our contract for our future. Any union is only as strong as it members. If you have membership that stays uninvolved in the entire process then your local will be week. My local is strong (and has room to strengthen) and works for its membership. 556 and 550 are both strong locals as well. So whatever union you are in you need to become an advocate for the process and educate the people around you. It is what I do on a daily basis.

I am sure you do have an industry leading contract...But Local 555 represents ramp and agents at SWA they do not represent mechanics and that is the point...The Twu has a pretty good record of getting everyone else EXCEPT mechanics a decent wage and contract. I was Iam for most of my airline career and they flat out did nothing for us AMT's and never considered AMFA a threat finally when then Iam came back with an abysmal contract for us in the best of times in the late 90's the Iam learned a hard lesson and they lost us AMT's at NW. The Twu is doing the same thing at AA. I have and always been a strong advocate for negotiating alone but for some reason this isn't possible for AMT's again the industrial unions had too much say in it and always wanted us tied in with all the other ground workers. Sorry I ever got into this field as an AMT.

 

[Kev3188]

The fact that 555 is apparently run so well at compared to the locals at AA is more an indictment of how the ATD at AA is set up than anything else.

 

[Bob Owens]

Here is my two cents. I am a proud TWU Local 555 member. We have an industry leading contract and currently in mediation to amend our contract for our future. Any union is only as strong as it members. If you have membership that stays uninvolved in the entire process then your local will be week. My local is strong (and has room to strengthen) and works for its membership. 556 and 550 are both strong locals as well. So whatever union you are in you need to become an advocate for the process and educate the people around you. It is what I do on a daily basis.

I believe you, but at AA what we have is not what you have. You elect the guy who signs your contract into place right? We don't, our contract is negotiated by people who are appointed. These appointed people are treated very well by the company, one perk is that they continue to accrue their AA pensions while working for the ATD and the salary that the pension is based on is the one reported by the union. So if they make $200k and the union reports that to the company they would get a pension based on $200k, nice, but thats not all, they also get Pass travel like members or the Board of AMR get, positive space First Class for them and their families. Sure elected Presidents get to observe some of the process, and mock votes are taken, again, and again and again until the desired result is obtained but in reality elected Presidents are merely witnesses, even says so in the contract, the International owns the contract, not the locals. At AA the appointees in turn hand pick other people and appoint them on various committees who are not answerable to the Presidents or any Local, don't think you have that either. When AA declared BK the local Presidents in the AA system were told that they were invited to participate in negotiations under terms dictated by the International, if they didn't agree they were out. At WN all Fleet is in Local 555 and all the Flight Attendants are in 556. At AA we are all over the place. My class and craft includes facilities/automotive mechanics (Title II) and aircraft mechanics (Title 1), yet here in NY we are split between Local 562 (Aircraft Mechanics) and Local 501 (Fleet Service), but my Local includes Boston where both Title I and Title II are in our Local. Local 562 also has Stock Clerks, but in Boston the Stock Clerks who mainly work with mechanics is in Local 507 (fleet Service). In Chicago Local 563, they have Aircraft Mechanics but no Title II mechanics, they are in Local 512, Fleet service. Miami (Local 561), LAX (Local 564) have both Title I and II except that in SFO (which is part of 564s area) Title II is in the Fleet Local. Now the international, in retaliation against the more militant Line Maint locals has proposed liquidating all those Maint Locals and removing the Title II guys from those Locals(to insure that the new local isn't big enough to outvote Tulsa) and disbursing them to Title III Locals. Since each Local is allowed to send someone to be a voting witness at the next contract negotiations the Maint Committee could be made up of just TWO Mechanics and 11 Fleet service clerks. How would you like it if at your next round of negotiations the people voting to bring back your contract were workers from different contracts? Quite frankly you have a good setup with a lot of Local autonomy, we do not, what we have is a mess and what the AATD is trying to ram down our throats is even worse. Your President will have a vote on what happens to my Local, I wont. Hopefully you will fill him in and he will do the right thing. Today they are doing this to us, tomorrow it could be your Local.

A union is there to provide the members a voice, and that voice is supposed to be someone that the members pick through an election and they are the voice of the members to the company, you have that, we do not, what we have is the members elect people to can speak to the ATD, but not top officials of the company, instead the President of the TWU appoints people who sit above the Presidents and decide what gets said to the company. These appointed people chair all meetings and set the agendas. With the new contract Presidents cant even make Local agreements, everything has to go back to the ATD, appointed representatives that can not be voted out by the members.