TWU ATD post IAM Alliance

[700UW]

You do realize WN has over 600 planes and only has 4 lines at DAL, and I am not sure if they do anything over a C-check.

 

[700UW]

Also the NMB sets the class and craft, not the unions.

 

[Kev3188]

NW was a debacle. I agree AMFA screwed that one up big time...No argument there.

+1

I don't think we need to rehash what happened there, but I think the best takeaway from it going forward is that union leaders (AMFA or otherwise) need to listen to the people on the frontline. I have no doubt that AMFA would've walked anyway- and they should have. I'm talking about how the events leading up to it, and during the strike were handled.

I always look to AMFA at SW as the reason to sign a card and change representation.

I look to AMFA as having some great structural ideas that other unions need to adopt.
 

 

Many AMTs don't see the benefit of having the "and related" lumped in their classification.  It is more of a dilution of the group, to help the company and or industrial union control the group by targeting different groups for votes.  I don't see that as being elitist.  It is more about strategy and the majority of the represented group being on the same page.  Now the kumbaya types will cite politically correct arguments, and use polarizing terms such as elitist or aryan whatever.  These guilt trip type arguments have helped screw AMTs for my 30 years in the industry - time has come to try something else.

No aryan stuff from me. I do think that a lot of AMFA supporters on here conflate the ineptitude of their leadership with the organization itself (or idea of industrial unions). Videtich (sp?) sucks, but does that mean the TWU as a whole does? Maybe, maybe not. Depace blew, but does the IAM as a whole? I hope that makes sense.

FWIW, if I was drawing the class & craft lines, they'd look like this:

*AMT's, stock clerks, fuelers (anyone still have those?!), plant maintenance, GSE, and maybe maintenance control.

That & .50 cents will also get you on the bus. lol.

 

[737823]

Videtich (sp?) sucks, but does that mean the TWU as a whole does? Maybe, maybe not. Depace blew, but does the IAM as a whole? I hope that makes sense.

Well look at what these two fine organizations have done to destroy the careers of many AMTs, airline workers, and to borrow your words the broader middle class. Both unions have history of corruption, placing the business interests of the organization and its leadership before those of the membership and both organizations have seen their membership roles dwindle in the past 12 years. Their leadership has stood by and watched the Wal-Martization of airline careers always saying "we'll get 'em next time" or "we did our best, this agreement provides structural pay increases and improved benefits" but they continue going downward giving away scope, work rules, and other benefits. While we may disagree on the value of representation, I think we can agree that what these two organizations have failed their constituents.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

We can, but that's my question. Is it a case of a poor structure itself, or weak leaders at the helm?

 

[737823]

We can, but that's my question. Is it a case of a poor structure itself, or weak leaders at the helm?

Or both, and they are intertwined IMO. A well structured organization wouldn't allow these idiots to make it and stay at the top this long if they weren't acting in the interest of the membership. What do you think of Jim Cronk and getting removed from his union position for calling out corruption among IAM leaders?

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

I think a well structured organization doesn't foster the complacency that allows that to occur. Maybe that's a chicken-egg type of discussion, but I do think we agree that a bottom up, transparent structure that embraces both new idea(l)s, professionalism, and militancy are good, right*?


Do you mean Jay Cronk? If so, I hadn't seen that. Link please, if you've got one handy, or just point me in the direction to check it out.


*I know you're not a fan of unions. Agreeing in principle here doesn't change that.

 

[737823]

I think a well structured organization doesn't foster the complacency that allows that to occur. Maybe that's a chicken-egg type of discussion, but I do think we agree that a bottom up, transparent structure that embraces both new idea(l)s, professionalism, and militancy are good, right*?


Do you mean Jay Cronk? If so, I hadn't seen that. Link please, if you've got one handy, or just point me in the direction to check it out.


*I know you're not a fan of unions. Agreeing in principle here doesn't change that.

Way to avoid the question.

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR761rfs0Xo

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Really?!

Don't be an a**hole. That was a sincere answer to what you've posted.



Thanks for the clip; I'll check it out when I'm not on my phone.

 

[737823]

Really?!

Don't be an a**hole. That was a sincere answer to what you've posted.



Thanks for the clip; I'll check it out when I'm not on my phone.

My apologies Kev, re-reading your post it seems more sincere. When I first read it seemed you were dodging the issue of IAM leadership acting in the interest of the union, not the members they aspire to serve. Again, doesn't it speak to the structure and leadership when a disproportionate number of high ranking officials hail from a carrier that no longer exists and also haven't worked in the industry for 10-20+ years? Before you remarked people like Sito and Roach are not good for the membership but then went onto say them being from TWA isn't an issue. They should get some new blood that is in step with what IAM members at AS, HA, UA, etc are going through, not TW workers who haven't been on the line in 20+ years. I mean Roach and Sito have clearly made the IAM their career and are milking all that they possibly can.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

My apologies Kev, re-reading your post it seems more sincere.

Cool. Thanks.

Before you remarked people like Sito and Roach are not good for the membership but then went onto say them being from TWA isn't an issue.

Uh, no I didn't. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what I said was almost exactly in line with your words below:

They should get some new blood that is in step with what IAM members at AS, HA, UA, etc are going through, not TW workers who haven't been on the line in 20+ years.

Can't remember my exact words, but the idea was that someone from an actively represented carrier (in this case, UA, US, HA, WN, AS, ec.) should be up there.

 

[737823]

Do you believe they are milking the IAM and current dues paying members? Why are family members hired for high paying jobs within the union?

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

I believe that they need to be held more accountable by the membership than they might be now. I also still contend that someone form a currently represented carrier would be preferable. That said, if it came down to an election and the membership elected an ex-TW person? Well, so be it, I 'spose.

Not sure which family members you're referring to, but I only the want the best qualified person in a spot. If that's someone's kid/cousin/whatever, then that's fine, as long as it's on the up and up. That'd go for any spot in any organization, btw...

P.S. Not related to this, but somewhere you asked when 143 was dissolved. I found the letter (from Roach, ironically). It's dated 18. Jan. 2011

 

[swamt]

Good point...
I could never understand that throughout the decades other classifications calling us elitists or "special" and how we are no better or no more important than any other classification, why would they care if we went our own way? Why the attacks on AMFA?
What are they afraid of if they lose us?

In a nut shell, all the industrial unions (TWU,IAM,ibt) are scared to death of AMFA getting huge in the airline industry. They know once AMFA gets their foothold started it will be all over and soon all the industrial unions will be gone from the airlines mechanic and related, and that my friend, would be millions upon millions of lost revenue from the industrial unions. That is why they will all work together (industrial unions and companies) to keep AMFA from coming in just like we all watched over at AA. Although this is just one of the reasons, it is the main one why they work so hard to fight AMFA.

 

[swamt]

You do realize WN has over 600 planes and only has 4 lines at DAL, and I am not sure if they do anything over a C-check.

You already know SWA does more than C-Checks. C'mon 700, I personally have corrected you and others. What do you think the 4 lines are?