The "dvd" From Awa-former
- Thread starter mdarules
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firstamendment
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- Apr 1, 2003
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hp_fa said:
In otherword, be young and fun, and in this ones case, very junior. Know that many have worked hard to be where they are. There will always be someone with more time. Honor each person for their time. Don't apologize for being young, but understand that we all come from different walks of life and ages.
Sorry if that sounded weird.
I've read several comments earlier on referring to the invols at US, as if they don't matter.
They matter! These people sat for six weeks of unpaid training, just like America West. They worked hard for six months or a year. They worked the flights after 9/11 because so many of the senior people were calling in afraid to fly. The did the company and the nation proud by helping to return tens of thousands of stranded passengers home to their children after one of the saddest events in this nation's history... only to be tossed to the curb by their company.
They matter. They paid their dues (and not just their AFA dues!) It's not as though these people have been having a picnic at Disneyland the past four years. They went on unemployment. They sought interim employment. They applied to other airlines, only to learn that their past dedication does not matter to other companies. Some went on to a sham division of US Airways called MidAtlantic. They matter.
Before everyone acts like the invols don't matter, try walking a mile in their shoes.
They matter!
They matter! These people sat for six weeks of unpaid training, just like America West. They worked hard for six months or a year. They worked the flights after 9/11 because so many of the senior people were calling in afraid to fly. The did the company and the nation proud by helping to return tens of thousands of stranded passengers home to their children after one of the saddest events in this nation's history... only to be tossed to the curb by their company.
They matter. They paid their dues (and not just their AFA dues!) It's not as though these people have been having a picnic at Disneyland the past four years. They went on unemployment. They sought interim employment. They applied to other airlines, only to learn that their past dedication does not matter to other companies. Some went on to a sham division of US Airways called MidAtlantic. They matter.
Before everyone acts like the invols don't matter, try walking a mile in their shoes.
They matter!
So what do you consider a relative bid position? I currently have nearly 20 yrs at Ueast, I am on reserve in my base because of the downsizing in that particular base. Are you saying that is all I deserve to ever be able to hold because of the "relative seniority"? Is it my fault at Ueast we have a choice of 6 bases and the base I fly out of is being downsized dramatically, has pushed me down to reserve bidding? What is the fairness of a AWA f/a with less then 20 yrs being considered senior to me? You cannot be given seniority you haven't accurred.luvn737s said:
DCA Flyer you are right on the money. I took one of the first flights back to NYC after 911. I as everyone else in the cabin could see the smoke still coming out of ground zero. I was scared to death to get back on an aircraft after that but I knew we needed to get the operation back up and running. I hid my fear and kept my cell phone in my pocket every leg. Coming back through CLT we were told of a furlough that would be coming down the road. With the help of VFRL I was able to retain my job until Sept 2003. My class was the last to be cut. I think 15 kept thier jobs and the rest were furloughed. I lost my place in CLT and was displaced to LGA for 3 months. I took it in stride and knew that I would be gone at the end of summer. Many of us invol's are watching closely the HP move for a fair"solution". DOH is the only fair solution; after we complete the merger then we can change the bylaws. We are still part of US even though some would like to forget about us. I don't care where I am sent as long as I can come back to US Airways, even though I want to go back to CLT ( I still have my white bow).
That is the whole reason that AWA flight attendants voted in AFA to begin with: no one wanted a "subjective" set of rules. Isn't that correct?
This is precisely why date of hire is the only fair way--it is NOT subjective. Someone is always going to feel that whatever rule there is (and it doesn't matter what the scenario is), that it is not "fair". Whenever a subjective element is involved, it is subject to opinion and prejudice, which do not belong in the picture. This whole "relative seniority integration" is only opening up a can of worms that NO ONE would want.
Believe it or not, there are some us at AWA that see hte US East side of things. DOH is the AFA C&B's and like it or not, it is what it is. If they make an exception for AWA, what happens to the rest of the seniority list? Piedmont, Allegheny, PSA etc,...I stand to lose hrough DOH, but I also think that it's what we voted in. Are going to re-adjust everyone elses seniory number? I don't think so.
So just because something is not subjective, that makes it good?
A straight staple job (either stapling HP behind U or vice versa) is not subjective either. So aren't either of those alternatives just as valid as DOH? DOH isn't the "only" non-subjective way to do it.
A subjective set of rules is easier to administer, that is for sure. But it also can be seen as monolithic and as not adequately taking valid concerns into consideration.
firstamendment
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- Apr 1, 2003
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Bear
Whether one agrees with what you are saying or not, the game is now over. The rules were in play. All of us knew that mergers were just around the corner. They have been predicted more than ever. If the US West f/a's thought this was important, there were many chances in the past to voice their concern.
I am a huge college football fan. If the game is over and my team lost, but looking at the reveiw of a play shows my team could had one, well sorry, but the game is over. All I can do is try to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. But to demand that the rules instantly be changed or the game be played over because my team is unhappy would be be silly. You work to change things in the future. This group feels they have lost the battle and want to change the rules and replay the game.
Believe it or not, we are now one US Airways. 2 Billion dollars raised to fund the new US..nobody saved anybody. We needed each other and we are merged. You and others can throw sec filings left and right but without the 49% funding to make this work, BOTH companies would be gone or in trouble, so this is a MERGER. DOH is the policy and anything else will only complicate things.
WHat is to happen if we were to merge now with Frontier? Talk about junior. So are the US West folks ready to slot their more junior Frontier force into the fold. Is US East to be puinshed again because of her longivity? This is why DOH is the best route. No windfall. It just keeps it clean. But change that policy and I promise you this airline will go down from EXTREME resentments. Sorry, people are human and to take away what has been given to others for a few will destroy this place.
God forbid we merge with JetBlue. We could take 1 our our 40 yr. F/A's, then a 23 yr US WestF/A, then a 5 yr JetBlue F/A. I guess that would be relative seniority. That sound good to all you US West folks? I mean, this is pretty much what you all are asking for. Wait , that wouldn't be right, because there's no way that that 5 Yr. F/A at Je Blue didn't earn their equivalent of 40 yrs. We could just slot them at the bottom, that soung ok with you? Do you see what you are asking for?
I have been clear throughout that I agree that in the end it will be done DOH, because that is what the rules state.
I am just providing a counterpoint to those who say DOH is the ONLY fair way to do it. It's not. And the ex-HP F/As will end up with the short end of the stick.
You will get the same part of the stick that I reieved when we merged with US Air in 1989. Which is the same end of the stick that PSA, Mohawk, Lake Central, Empire, and Allegheny all got. Do you see the pattern? No MORE and No LESS. I lived through this crap from about 1989 to 1995. Piedmont was a great airline(just like America West was/is), but the name on the tail and your paycheck is going to say US Airways. You too, will be proud of your past, but you will move on and be a important piece of our new company. I look forward to getting this all finished, so that we can concentrate on kicking some competitive butt.
Everyone talks about the lifestyle changes that could happen for West, but stop and think that we have had alot of lifestyle changes at East. I am below what I was suppose to make at my 5th year. I will be at my old 5th year pay at year 10. I am now working on my days off to make a living. Why should I have a lifestyle change one more time? Why can't we all just get along. I was just on a layover in LAS and I couldn't believe how RUDE this West crew was to myself and my crew. Saying HI isn't going to hurt you. We are all one company now and need to get along. I guess people are forgetting about being polite.
