The "dvd" From Awa-former

[PHXLOST]

I too am looking forward to the new airline and meeting new folks from the east...DOH will effect me (I am in the top 10%) But I do think it is the right way to merge...I have never understood people thinking its ok to place someone with 10 years in front of someone with 20...However I am sure you would all admit it is very hard to have things taken from you. We will not loose our true seniority or DOH, but our position in the company will definitely change...there is some pain coming our way ...and all I am saying is don't rub salt into the wound.

 

[skyflyr69]

if awa fa's can convince ual fa's to change to RS ( relative seniority ) then it will pass. money talks so start paying them off. after all, ual is only 16 yr. average for the fa's. cough up the bucks!

 

[proudf/a]

1. Yes. So I don't know why y'all keep on bringing up your same points, over and over, while completely ignoring other legitimate points of view.
2. Yes, and I have made that point myself, many times. (See #1, above.)
3. This is where I disagree with you. The formulas being proposed are attempting to keep people in their same relative seniority to where they are now. By definition, relative seniority does not benefit one group over the other -- it maintains the status quo as much as possible. However, in this particular scenario (the merger of U and HP), strict DOH DOES benefit one group over the other.

Whom does strict DOH benefit? Ask yourself this: If DOH is used, when there is a layoff, which group will be disproportionately impacted, even though they weren't the ones in danger of immediate liquidation before the merger -- the ex-old-U or ex-HP F/As?

The OTHER group is the one who will unfairly benefit.

Mr Bear, when you speak of "relative seniority" exactly what do you mean? Ueast has 6 crew bases on the east coast. I have nearly 20 yrs seniority, but I am based in the most senior base, an one of the fastest shrinking bases, which has pushed me back to only being able to hold a reserve bid. If I get displaced or tranfer to another base, I retain my 20 yrs seniority, I can hold a line in any of our 5 crew bases, but I choose to stay where I am, its home for me. With your relative seniority theory, are you suggesting because I can only hold a reserve bid, in my current base that, that is all I am entitled too when the seniority list is merged? How does this benefit everyone? If I am to understand your logic, you believe that because that is the only bid I can currently hold, my 20 yrs should be placed behind the 5 yr lineholders at the former AWA? Do you have any respect for seniority at all, do you realize that this is something to be proud of. I have worked for the same company for 19+yrs. That says a lot about a people. Their dedication, they loyalities. Those f/a's with any amount of seniority have paved the way for those coming behind us, including those from other airlines. Any AFA member has benefited from what other airlines do, in their work rules, their contract neogiations, etc. I have nothing but the upmost respect for f/a's senior to me regardless of what airline they work for, I also respect those that are junior to me, they have an incredible career ahead of them. I am sorry you do not see the DOH intergration as the most fair and equitable way to merge. No way is going to be perfect for everyone. Your solution regardless of what kind of spin you put on it, isnt the best way either. I dont know if you work in this industry or are a former airline person. If you have worked in this industry you will know that it is a very big seniority driven industry. Your date of hire is used for nearly everything. That has been in place long before I ever got here. Former AWA f/a's know this, that is why they are fighting for theirs, but in the end we will merge DOH. Believe it or not everyone will live happily ever after.

 

[proudf/a]

I too am looking forward to the new airline and meeting new folks from the east...DOH will effect me (I am in the top 10%) But I do think it is the right way to merge...I have never understood people thinking its ok to place someone with 10 years in front of someone with 20...However I am sure you would all admit it is very hard to have things taken from you. We will not loose our true seniority or DOH, but our position in the company will definitely change...there is some pain coming our way ...and all I am saying is don't rub salt into the wound.

In case you haven't read any of my other posts. I am based in PIT, can only hold a reserve bid, with almost 20 yrs. You dont think I have had things taken from me? To go from holding a 4 day line Wed-Sat, to sitting on reserve? Nothing will be taken from you with a doh intergration, for quite some time. By then, it probably wont be that noticable. There will be a fence around PHX, just as there will be a fence around Ueast bases. Once the fence is lifted, there cannot be any transfers unless there is openings. You just cant put in a transfer an it is awarded, if there are no open vacancies, there are no transfers. I realize you arent aware of this considering AWA only has one crew base. That is how it works. I cant transfer from PIT to CLT or PHL right now,( to hold a line) because there are no openings. So, my 20yrs doesnt mean a hill of beans. We have loads of f/a's who want to leave PIT to go to PHL or CLT, senior to me, they cannot. The only crew bases we have open for transfer bids, is BOS/LGA. I am not trying to be sarcastic at all, just trying to be informative, give you a prospective on things in the East.

 

[goodgirl37]

if awa fa's can convince ual fa's to change to RS ( relative seniority ) then it will pass. money talks so start paying them off. after all, ual is only 16 yr. average for the fa's. cough up the bucks!

I wouldn't spread that because that is highly ILLEGAL and will be researched to the fullest capacity and if UAL or the AFA were caught in any scandal like that it would cause SERIOUS damage. As well as damage to AWA mgmt or should I say US mgmt...

 

[john john]

QUOTE(bulldog )

"You all need to play nice in the sandbox of life. Nobody ever said that this intergration of the work groups would be easy. However both sides in this issue are making valid points. US seniority and DOH this works for you because it screws the HP people. HP intergration works but it leaves some at US "bumped". From an outsider You all have to find some common ground and work to resolve this so we can move on.
The fact is that prior to this Merger the DOH or Senority issue was about to be mute. I dont think the unemployment office gives a hoot about either.

Dove tail seniority and move on we are now one company and we need to act as one.

Just my humble and personal opinion."


Management needs to leave the seniority issue up to the unions. And let them work it out. The unions have a process. Management’s involvements and threats only create a division in the work place. US/EAST has heard threats of (F.U.D.) unemployment/liquidation/shutdown/bankruptcy/sale of assets for a long time we are now looking forward to the new US management running an airline not involving themselves in internal unions agreements and procedures.

 

[N109UW]

If I could get my hands on one of those DVD's, I would put it in the pile with my " block of cheese, and tin of cookies". Then I would sell it all on EBay. I would also put my furlough notice in that I got in 1991 and the displacemnet letter that came 3 weeks later telling me they were just kidding and that I was to be displaced from PIT to DCA. But hey, guess what, the world just kept on turnin, didn't it. I figure it's gonna do the same again, hopefully, sooner than later.Colodny, Schoefield,Wolf,Gangwahl, Seigal, Lakefield, but guess who is still here, I am. Come on Mr. Parker, finally do something with my airline, wiil ya. I had a PAX on my flight the other day and they said they normally flew on Delta. I replied " oh, thats one of those bankrupt airlines", then I said" Hey, I think we are buying them". (Side note: they are not AFA, so we can staple them to the bottom.)