From a US Airways pilot to a AWA pilot

[Tim Nelson]

Ummmm, they did. (Very dumb question.)

They tried to negotiate with East. East refused to compromise. They both went to binding arbitration per ALPA policy. The arbitrator ruled. That IS the normal and customary procedure.

So I have a dumb question for you, Tim. Since when has it been acceptable to try to overturn a legally binding arbitration through threats and intimidation?

When a union thinks its going to lose its a$$ by losing more members, it could feel its acceptable. Remember, with unions, It's all about the dues.

IMO, if ALPA overturns the binding arbitration [and I'm not convinced it will or even has to] then the westies will most likely have a case in court [see 700's postings which are reasonable along this line, even though I disagree with his self proclaimed outcome]. I think USA320 downplays this aspect a bit too much. Certainly, without doubt, the westies would have a case. Is it a winning case? I would say not necessarily.
But once it goes to court, you never really know and you should never be too confident. AND YOU CAN BET THAT ALL EMAILS WOULD BE SUBPOENAED [sp?] to see if any constitutional interpretation was motivated by 'intentions of violation'.

ALPA could be in a real mess with 'severe' damages.

Nonetheless, IMO, ALPA has to have autonomous interpretation of its constitution and will prevail any suit or court case, provided such interpretation is not a result of 'unlawful' biases and intentions. As far as I know, ALPA hasn't mentioned anything about throwing out the award but I'll bet that USA320 just isn't running his mouth on this one and that something is really 'brewing'.
One thing is sure about ALPA National,IMO, is that it is out to save its own butt. If that means siding with east siders then you can bank on it. How that will look is anybody's guess at this point and all opinions have some validity.

At any rate, even though ALPA EC has sole and exclusive authority to interpret its constitution, it must not violate DFR and other mediation/arbitration laws, which it comes under. Unions have hid under their 'sole and exclusive' constitutional interpretations by the thousands AND of the thousands of times they have done it, at least hundreds of times they have been found to be in violation where damages have occured. Therein lies the contentions should ALPA throw out the award. Things will get interesting as it seems both the east siders and westies have 'dug in'. Once it goes to court this will take years and IMO, the resulting division will force closure of the company if not closure of the case.

regards,

 

[prechilill]

When a union thinks its going to lose its a$$ by losing more members, it could feel its acceptable. Remember, with unions, It's all about the dues.

IMO, if ALPA overturns the binding arbitration [and I'm not convinced it will or even has to] then the westies will most likely have a case in court [see 700's postings which are reasonable along this line, even though I disagree with his self proclaimed outcome]. I think USA320 downplays this aspect a bit too much. Certainly, without doubt, the westies would have a case. Is it a winning case? I would say not necessarily.
But once it goes to court, you never really know and you should never be too confident. AND YOU CAN BET THAT ALL EMAILS WOULD BE SUBPOENAED [sp?] to see if any constitutional interpretation was motivated by 'intentions of violation'.

ALPA could be in a real mess with 'severe' damages.

Nonetheless, IMO, ALPA has to have autonomous interpretation of its constitution and will prevail any suit or court case, provided such interpretation is not a result of 'unlawful' biases and intentions. As far as I know, ALPA hasn't mentioned anything about throwing out the award but I'll bet that USA320 just isn't running his mouth on this one and that something is really 'brewing'.
One thing is sure about ALPA National,IMO, is that it is out to save its own butt. If that means siding with east siders then you can bank on it. How that will look is anybody's guess at this point and all opinions have some validity.

At any rate, even though ALPA EC has sole and exclusive authority to interpret its constitution, it must not violate DFR and other mediation/arbitration laws, which it comes under. Unions have hid under their 'sole and exclusive' constitutional interpretations by the thousands AND of the thousands of times they have done it, at least hundreds of times they have been found to be in violation where damages have occured. Therein lies the contentions should ALPA throw out the award. Things will get interesting as it seems both the east siders and westies have 'dug in'. Once it goes to court this will take years and IMO, the resulting division will force closure of the company if not closure of the case.

regards,

Chip, the people which have a mess on their hands is the AAA MEC. ALPA, the AWA MEC and the rest of the industry see where the problem is.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Chip, the people which have a mess on their hands is the AAA MEC. ALPA, the AWA MEC and the rest of the industry see where the problem is.

Exactly how do you see the Nic award being implemented on East sider pilots? I mean, let's say the problem is with the east siders, and let's say the award will stand with ALPA, but let's hold to the truth that it can only be implemented by a 'joint seniority list'.

I think it is not only reasonable but also likely, that the westies will have to soften their stance if they want to keep any idea of future job security. Although I find it unlikely, if the east siders do choose to leave ALPA then the westies, by being the vast minority, will be swept into whatever union the east siders choose to vote in.

At any rate, given the 'toothlessness' of the Nic Award, which is conditioned on a 'joint seniority list' for any implementation purposes, it appears to me that the westies may be dying on a hill that can't be won.

regards,

 

[aquagreen73s]

Exactly how do you see the Nic award being implemented on East sider pilots? I mean, let's say the problem is with the east siders, and let's say the award will stand with ALPA, but let's hold to the truth that it can only be implemented by a 'joint seniority list'.

I think it is not only reasonable but also likely, that the westies will have to soften their stance if they want to keep any idea of future job security. Although I find it unlikely, if the east siders do choose to leave ALPA then the westies, by being the vast minority, will be swept into whatever union the east siders choose to vote in.

At any rate, given the 'toothlessness' of the Nic Award, which is conditioned on a 'joint seniority list' for any implementation purposes, it appears to me that the westies may be dying on a hill that can't be won.

regards,

There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of these type of arbitrations before. And I suspect there are hundreds, if not thousands, of other pissed off parties who all are pulling from the same grab bag of tricks. The law does not appreciate sore losers making a mockery of lady justice. In time the company will ram this down the East's throats and that time is likely sooner rather than later. I'll give the games two years, tops, before they're quashed.

At some point, the company will need to integrate fully and will then petition a federal district court for a mandatory injunction. AAA is bound to their agreement, the company is an interested party, and AAA is not negotiating in good faith. When it suits the company, you'll get the legal equivalent of a wedgie. And actually, I suspect the West pilots could force the same result. I'll have to research that.

 

[EastUS]

In time the company will ram this down the East's throats and that time is likely sooner rather than later. I'll give the games two years, tops, before they're quashed.

Good Luck

As for: "The law does not appreciate sore losers making a mockery of lady justice." You're suffering from childish delusions of institutional grandeur....ie: "The law" thinks OJ is "innocent".