reserves f/a's are sitting in phl

[Travelpro72]

PRODUCTIVITY? I don't know how this system is making any reserve really more productive. Yeah, some think that you sit around chained to the company and still ya get paid 71 hours. Try paying bills on 71 hours. I would have NO problem with working and making my time for the month. This system can really prevent you from working. The WHOLE month we sat here in PHL along with PIT and to a degree in CLT then as turkey day comes along the trips just KABOOM "explode" out of nowhere. So we go out and bust our rears during the holiday only to add per diem? That is what were working for this month basically. How many reserves out there honestly voted for this? Not many I'm sure. Hmmmmm. Easy to just say screw it and leave? Sure! Should that be the solution? Definately NOT! Something really has to give here.

 

[PITbull]

Little history on lack of participation by members on something as important as your wages and work conditions...

For concession #2 and 3, approximately 1600 f/as didn't bother to vote (out of 5,200 active). That means that 1600, who I would venture 100% could have used either a cell phone or home phone to submit their vote, but just didn't bother. And in concession #2, when the LTO was jammed in the 5-day negotiations, our population of reserves system wide was approx. 40%.

So, I could deduce that all 1600 were not just blockholders.

 

[N109UW]

SkiHigh is right. We used to have passingfor Reserves, however, too many people abused this right trying not to fly at all. Every frickin day" 2E,2E,2E. Alot of them were F/A's either married to a pilot or another F/A with a kid at home. All they wanted to do was sit home and collect Min. Guarantee. There was a cluase in the old contract that stated "Reserve passing is not intended to allow F/A's to have additional days off". So these people just abused the hell out of it and the company got rid of the old system. When the new system got put in place, most of those abusers either took the leave or the buyout, and we got left with squat.

TravelPro: Alot of reserves did vote for this, however, remember, we were supposed to have Pref Bid at the same time. The company put this new reserve system in(which the afa didn't balk at) and then never put Pref Bid in(which afa is ok with). I'm not sure how long you have been here, but do you remember the Reserve Override? We were supposed to get that in May of 2002,it didn't happen. So, I called the CLT union office and Hearn told me they were waiting on SAP to get finished and that I might have been a Lineholder. I told him I might ahve been an Astronaut also, but that I was a Reserve F/A and to cut me a check. SAP didn't come along until Nov 2002(5 month delay inwhich the company saved approx. $400,000 at the expense of the Reserves) and I was still a Reserve. Then in 2003, our union let the company take back the Reserve Override and guess what, let them keep SAP for the Lineholders. Just another instance where our union screwed the Reserves.

 

[PITbull]

SkiHigh is right. We used to have passingfor Reserves, however, too many people abused this right trying not to fly at all. Every frickin day" 2E,2E,2E. Alot of them were F/A's either married to a pilot or another F/A with a kid at home. All they wanted to do was sit home and collect Min. Guarantee. There was a cluase in the old contract that stated "Reserve passing is not intended to allow F/A's to have additional days off". So these people just abused the hell out of it and the company got rid of the old system. When the new system got put in place, most of those abusers either took the leave or the buyout, and we got left with squat.

TravelPro: Alot of reserves did vote for this, however, remember, we were supposed to have Pref Bid at the same time. The company put this new reserve system in(which the afa didn't balk at) and then never put Pref Bid in(which afa is ok with). I'm not sure how long you have been here, but do you remember the Reserve Override? We were supposed to get that in May of 2002,it didn't happen. So, I called the CLT union office and Hearn told me they were waiting on SAP to get finished and that I might have been a Lineholder. I told him I might ahve been an Astronaut also, but that I was a Reserve F/A and to cut me a check. SAP didn't come along until Nov 2002(5 month delay inwhich the company saved approx. $400,000 at the expense of the Reserves) and I was still a Reserve. Then in 2003, our union let the company take back the Reserve Override and guess what, let them keep SAP for the Lineholders. Just another instance where our union screwed the Reserves.

N109UW,

Just for clairty sake and getting the facts in order:

SAP came in Aug. of 2001. The reserve override and also over 14-year longevity pay was given back to the company as part of concession #1 which was ratified on Aug. 9, 2002. Everything in concession #1 had a snap back by 2008 and reserve override had a snap back of .50 by 2006, and $1 by 2008. The longevity pay (which has nothing to do with being a lineholder or reserve; but rather years of service) was to snap back at the end of 2008.

Unfortunately, since concession #1 in 2002, we have gone through 2 bankruptcies and 2 more concessions. Each worse than the first and much deeper. Instead of the company instituting a new business plan, they made labor pay for a failed one. Because of this management's lack of vision, they could only come up with a merger. Some of those execs bailed and some got to keep their jobs, promoted with raises.

Point being, and why I bring this up, is that many f/as forget and blame the union leaders for their plight. They forget their role in this, and act like passive bystanders.

The old BOD and new BOD rewarded those execs who were responsible for a failing business plan and Labor who saved the company from liquidating twice, kept the operation going so that all the execs could collect hefty monthly pay checks, while labor waited for who among them would get axed next. The company made sure that they continued the psychological war-fare with continued threats to control the masses to keep the company going and keep making you feel that you had no value to the company and wouldn't find a job any where else. (I have an e-mail from some top execs specifically Dave S. that actually say this dated Nov. 24, 2002 no less).

Unfortunately, apathy was contagious and with our particular group, the f/as were not listening to the union reps...except PIT members who knew their worth.

One more thing regarding Pref-bid...it was never negotiated to be instituted at the same time as the LTO. The negotiators fought for having them instituted the same time in the 5-day negotiations, Winter 2002, but not what the company would agree to. The MEC knew if it was instituted the same time, there would be a huge delay for LTO because Pref-bid was taking years to put in place and that would delay job losses. Both systems get rid of more f/as for your fyi...so the MEC, by majority was against the LTO system as well as pref-bid because of that consequence. And for those reasons the company pushed to institute these concessions and not have any impedment or restrictions to do so.

Rant over.

 

[hula-flyguy]

Indeed it is sooo easy to blame the union or management for all the so called wrongs put upon the union memebers (in some of their eyes), when these people more than likely are the same ones who DID NOT VOTE.

It amazes me that us east f/a's and us west f/a's are at each others throats. It further amazes me that AFA for east and AFA for west are at each others throats....but it does not amaze me that us east senior f/a's and us east junior f/a's are at each others throats, becasue that is the way it has always been.

Don't bother to exercise your vote, and then turn around and blame the company for the internal friction? Yeah, right.


Having said that, I want to add that PIT and US in general is losing one hell of a fine f/a and union rep. I wish you well....

 

[phl/yyz]

I'm just saying with todays technology there should be a better way.

Why not let people create thier on lines from the begining rather than bidding and rebidding? The more seniority you have the less you have to fly. Make us more responsible for ourselves rather than treating us like 2 year olds. Use reserves for what they are reserves.

a lot of these posters are cryin like two year olds...learn the system... it works if you learn to work it...be careful what you wish for...it could be a lot worse...live your life...get over the way we were and you will grow over a 2 year old...then the company will make you more responsible

 

[N109UW]

I find it easier and easier to blame others, especially when you go to all the meetings and try to get your feet wet. Every meeting I go to here in CLT has about 20 people at it. However, there are plenty of passive F/A's who are more than willing to "piss and moan" about this and that on most of my jumpseats. I usaually refer them to their local union rep or hand them a resignation form. It amazes me that most people are willing to grip about this and that, but mention that they should go to a union meeting and they are like" Oh, I don't want to go to them". Ok then, just shut up. thanks.
Pit, thanks for the timeline correction. There has been so much happen that sometimes it is tough to remember when we gave back a certain giveback. Also, I know if they put everythng in place, that it would mean more layoffs. However, this company needs to get to the number of F/A's that we really need on the property. One way or the other. And don't think that that I don't care about F/A's junior to me, as my wife is one of the ones that could get let go. We both know that, however, we both want the company to thrive and if that means she gets let go for a while, then so be it. In the end, this has always been a business and nobody promised us a job for life.

 

[phl/yyz]

I find it easier and easier to blame others, especially when you go to all the meetings and try to get your feet wet. Every meeting I go to here in CLT has about 20 people at it. However, there are plenty of passive F/A's who are more than willing to "piss and moan" about this and that on most of my jumpseats. I usaually refer them to their local union rep or hand them a resignation form. It amazes me that most people are willing to grip about this and that, but mention that they should go to a union meeting and they are like" Oh, I don't want to go to them". Ok then, just shut up. thanks.
Pit, thanks for the timeline correction. There has been so much happen that sometimes it is tough to remember when we gave back a certain giveback. Also, I know if they put everythng in place, that it would mean more layoffs. However, this company needs to get to the number of F/A's that we really need on the property. One way or the other. And don't think that that I don't care about F/A's junior to me, as my wife is one of the ones that could get let go. We both know that, however, we both want the company to thrive and if that means she gets let go for a while, then so be it. In the end, this has always been a business and nobody promised us a job for life.

GREAT POST!!!

 

[hula-flyguy]

I find it easier and easier to blame others, especially when you go to all the meetings and try to get your feet wet. Every meeting I go to here in CLT has about 20 people at it. However, there are plenty of passive F/A's who are more than willing to "piss and moan" about this and that on most of my jumpseats. I usaually refer them to their local union rep or hand them a resignation form. It amazes me that most people are willing to grip about this and that, but mention that they should go to a union meeting and they are like" Oh, I don't want to go to them". Ok then, just shut up. thanks.
Pit, thanks for the timeline correction. There has been so much happen that sometimes it is tough to remember when we gave back a certain giveback. Also, I know if they put everythng in place, that it would mean more layoffs. However, this company needs to get to the number of F/A's that we really need on the property. One way or the other. And don't think that that I don't care about F/A's junior to me, as my wife is one of the ones that could get let go. We both know that, however, we both want the company to thrive and if that means she gets let go for a while, then so be it. In the end, this has always been a business and nobody promised us a job for life.

Two thumbs up!

 

[Travelpro72]

How is a reserve to "Better" work the system? When I'm to be on duty I sit in my crashpad and wait for a trip. I put myself on quick call and go outside to do my rain dance hoping for a trip. Line Holders have MUCH more ability to work the system than a reserve does. As a reserve you have NO choices but to maybe ROC to protect your days in hopes they don't get back to you. We should look at what other airlines do but as someone mentioned earlier, get creative. With regards to the voting, some I think just became discouraged. They watched what has happened to this company over the years and whether you voted or not meant nothing in the end but getting your voice heard. Well I voted and still here I sit. I hope we can keep some of the flexibilities that the block holders have but throw the damn reserves a bone here. It's out of hand.

 

[phl/yyz]

How is a reserve to "Better" work the system? When I'm to be on duty I sit in my crashpad and wait for a trip. I put myself on quick call and go outside to do my rain dance hoping for a trip. Line Holders have MUCH more ability to work the system than a reserve does. As a reserve you have NO choices but to maybe ROC to protect your days in hopes they don't get back to you. We should look at what other airlines do but as someone mentioned earlier, get creative. With regards to the voting, some I think just became discouraged. They watched what has happened to this company over the years and whether you voted or not meant nothing in the end but getting your voice heard. Well I voted and still here I sit. I hope we can keep some of the flexibilities that the block holders have but throw the damn reserves a bone here. It's out of hand.

I am a RSV and I got a big bone this month...I have 42+00 and change it is the what 25th, go off at midnight but got REL around noon, or so... do not have to answer the phone untill the 28th at 1500 for trip on the 29th...have flown 8 days and lovin it...and on top of that I am sitting in my crash pad!!!I should hold a block for JAN if you want it I will be happy to sit RSV for you...doing the math I make as much as a MDA capt...thanks for the bone...
as for line holders I feel for them wnew system you have to touch all weekend trips make up time stay legal etc. I feel for them...this new system for Jr. line holders bites... RSVB baby...

 

[N109UW]

TPro, I really feel for you. This system sucks for commuters. I know a girl here in CLT, who had vacation the first 8 days of a month. She commuted from Vegas, so she sat at a hotel on days on until about the 21st of the month. She tried to do quick call, but that didn't help. As I stated earlier, this system was designed to work with Pref Bid. That way we could get to the number of F/A's we need. Right now, it is just a hodgepodge system that equally jerks all reserves. I tried to get the LEC here in CLT to approach the company with some different ideas(no passing, 5 hour reduction for passing, others had ideas also. LEC Hearn didn't want to deal with it. He said they didn't want to go to the company with anything. I even went as far as saying: " let's get rid of the people who don't want to be here and that we had plenty of people out on furlough who wouldlove to take a trip(and you wouldn't have to beg them to fly). Most people don't remember the 13% paycut we took in 2001(this was before the 21% that came later). These F/A's that were passing, trying not to work were costing the company over $33,000 per year plus benefits. If you had 100 of these F/A's system wide, that equals over $3.3 million. We had at least 25 in CLT. I figure my 13% cut let those people keep their jobs. These are the same folks that when they changed the system, they took the buyout.

 

[Travelpro72]

I am a RSV and I got a big bone this month...I have 42+00 and change it is the what 25th, go off at midnight but got REL around noon, or so... do not have to answer the phone untill the 28th at 1500 for trip on the 29th...have flown 8 days and lovin it...and on top of that I am sitting in my crash pad!!!I should hold a block for JAN if you want it I will be happy to sit RSV for you...doing the math I make as much as a MDA capt...thanks for the bone...
as for line holders I feel for them wnew system you have to touch all weekend trips make up time stay legal etc. I feel for them...this new system for Jr. line holders bites... RSVB baby...

How do you POSSIBLY call having 42+00 on the 25th being thrown a bone? I have around 38+00 and have the 27th and 29th off just as most other reserves. You get to sit in your crashpad too? well thats AWESOME.... I'm sitting at one here in PHL too. I LOVE IT. Your kidding right? I would rather have a line ANY day than sit reserve. I have NEVER heard anyone say they would prefer it over holding a line. You don't have to answer the phone on your days off? Well rightfully so. I am sitting here waiting and waiting. I had vacation in the beginning of this month as well. I don't know how it's productive to have me sit here and do nothing. Although I did appreciate my quick call at 4:45am yesterday. I thanked scheduling over and over....LOL. You should tell more blockholders how GGGGRRRRRRREEEAAAATTTTT being on reserve is so I can hold a block. It's a fantastic idea actually. LOL

I know how she feels. I commute from there as well and sat here in PHL for what? I was over 100 to for a daily call the first day I was on duty and only went higher the next. It is horrible to sit here day after day. I know some say that we can quit or it's always possible for this to happen in this profession. Well I don't think ANY employee in ANY work group ever thought they would be dealing with what we deal with today. I will NEVER be convinced that it was a TRUE priority to do more for the reserves. I do agree that it could have been worse (whatever that would be) but I feel something more could be done with this reserve system. I believe that ideas don't want to be heard. I was just told that it's better to be reserve than a junior lineholder. Well I say more bid reserve then. I'd be more than glad to have a secondary even so I knew how to plan my life. At least if I lived in base I would try and do the ETB. Not gonna do that and be away from home after I have just sat here for 7 days. ya know.....

 

[N109UW]

Hey, here's another one for ya. If a lineholder has vacation, it goes above their block time. If a reserve haas vacation, it comes out of their min. Guarantee. I think it should be above guarantee. If not, it is a wasted day, a day that I earned.

 

[Travelpro72]

Tell me about it.... isn't it crazy? I don't understand HOW you can earn your vacation time but when you go to use it you don't essentially get paid for it. If I don't fly and am sitting here I am at their beck and call so I am NOT getting paid for doing nothing. I am away from my home, family and normal life. So in a month that we have vacation as a f/a you don't get it above your 71 hour guarantee. I'm sure it will be justified somehow that block holders still get it above their like value. See where we as reserves really lose out? It goes on and on. OHHHH theres more. All you hear is well, we had to give this and that in order to keep this or that. We as reserves gained NOTHING and lost LOTS. It's all a bunch of bs....