Pilot labor thread week 4/27-5/3

[oldiebutgoody]

It really does not matter if it is done through an LOA or a Joint Contract.

Assuming USAPA can junk the TA and pass a contract through their majority of votes any decrease in workrules/pay for the west for gains in the east is a breach of USAPAs duty to represent the west pilots.

USAPA would lose this case and you would see a wage garnishment to make the west pilots whole.

There is NO DFR violation if the West CHOOSES not to participate. Go ask YOUR lawyer.

 

[EastUS]

Some self gratification I suppose?

Old Wive's Tales hold that blindness can result from such.... :blink:

 

[EastUS]

There is NO DFR violation if the West CHOOSES not to participate. Go ask YOUR lawyer.

"QUOTE (ableoneable @ Apr 28 2008, 09:16 PM)
It really does not matter if it is done through an LOA or a Joint Contract.

Assuming USAPA can junk the TA and pass a contract through their majority of votes any decrease in workrules/pay for the west for gains in the east is a breach of USAPAs duty to represent the west pilots.

USAPA would lose this case and you would see a wage garnishment to make the west pilots whole."

My gosh...I'd almost thought that no one can possibly exist within such a perfectly self centered and wishfull fantasy, and be so completely out of touch with even the slightest aspects of reality. Please...Puleeeaze tell me that this is indeed the sort of "information" that you folks are actually receiving from your amazing lawyers..

I've almost come to miss AWA320..who was, along with the west contingent..going to file personal actions that were destined to allow them all to take ownership of our homes.....words fail me overall here...other than: You folks DO actually fly planes?....!????

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I also asked you and AAA73Pilot:

If everyone keeps what they had, to include your own international flying and attrition, shouldn't it also include one's proximity to the unemployment line? Under your plan, a reduction in work force puts West captains on the street and your recent furloughees in their jobs. How do you reconcile this? I don't think it rings sincere to say you want everyone to keep what they brought to the table, except the baggage and misfortune that you had. That should belong to someone else?

If you want to have protections to keep your attrition and resulting upgrades, then the West should keep theirs as well, in addition to the jobs they came with. The last person recalled should be the first person furloughed next time. Isn't this how it always worked?

I'm really trying to understand this. How about a real explanation without the wise cracks and sarcasm.


What about you, AAA73Pilot? I really want both of your straight responses to these questions. I'm honestly not being confrontational. Just attempting to understand your point of view.

Actually I was going to respond to your earlier post. Just never got around to it. Then read this post with the same conditions.

Since you want to set the stage with your presupposed theories, whatever I say, if it disagrees with you, will be wrong. So actually you are being confrontational. Next time ask the question and leave out your interjections trying to control the answer. BTW. I do have an opinion on how to set the stage to move forward, but will not let you set it for me.

I do want to know one thing though. If a west Captain hits the street, how many west F/O's left before him/her? 800-900 range is my guess. That would mean the company downsized in the 20-25% range. Correct? Just curious about west numbers.

 

[EastUS]

[quote name='AAA73Pilot' date='Apr 28 2008, 09:48 PM' post='599633'
I do want to know one thing though. If a west Captain hits the street, how many west F/O's left before him/her? 800-900 range is my guess. That would mean the company downsized in the 20-25% range. Correct? Just curious about west numbers.
[/quote]

I was thinking that it'd take far more than that....I've been wrong before 😉 I'm not sure exactly when the most junior AWA captains came aboard....Regardless...I find the "big issue" of when a "Captain" goes as opposed to anyone else to be ridiculous to worry about...and, in fact, merely symptomatic of some childish "It's ALL about MEE!" type of thought process out there. Are FO's supposedly "worthless" as people?...and, the mighty AWA Captains the only ones of concern?..sheesh.

 

[uSCABa]

Why has your USCABA self appointed F.O. Ruler asked everybody to dump the USCABA lanyards/stickers/bagtags? Is he tired of being identified as a scab by all other alpa pilots thru out the country?

Keep those lanyards boys. You'll need them when you engage UAL in a hysterically funny campaign to take over ALPA.

NIC STICKS. Period. The end. It's over.

 

[KTM300]

Actually, the question was never answered so it was asked again.

Prechilill,

I believe you are correct. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knows the answer. If I were to guess, if it came up as an agenda item, it would be the pilots, not some but all, would have a vote to determine if those guys, the Empire pilots, would get their DOH on the list.

 

[EastUS]

Why has your USCABA self appointed F.O. Ruler asked everybody to dump the USCABA lanyards/stickers/bagtags? Is he tired of being identified as a scab by all other alpa pilots thru out the country?

Keep those lanyards boys. You'll need them when you engage UAL in a hysterically funny campaign to take over ALPA.

NIC STICKS. Period. The end. It's over.

🙄 As long as the Good Lord keeps making people......there will always be babies around for all of us to marvel at, and take joy in their innocence.

 

[sharktooth]

Here is another question. If USAPs are going to arrange the integrated seniority list by DOH between AWA and US, then why are they going to ignore the Empire pilots and deny them their due seniority? (For those unfamiliar with the Empire debacle, they were stapled to the bottom of the Piedmont list, so you had guys hired in the mid 70's junior to Piedmont pilots hired in '85. The Empire guys never got their seniority back either, and that is a shame.) Ironically, there are a couple AWA pilots at the very top of the list who will benefit from a DOH integration and place them near the top of the combined list. So, if it is good enough to redo the integrated list with AWA/US, why not the Empire pilots?

1. The empire pilots were not stapled and numerous efforts were made to restore their DOH. Unfortunately, by the time efforts were made to do so, judges ruled that the statute of limitations was in effect. (No, I was neither PI nor Empire.) I have flown with two Empire pilots who actually think they got a good deal, basically trading seniority for retirement. Of course, I have not talked with them since ALPA took away the pensions.
2. One does not "redo" something that has no chance of implementation. Even ALPA admitted that, with another union, the TA goes away, and takes the "nic" with it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It really does not matter if it is done through an LOA or a Joint Contract.

Assuming USAPA can junk the TA and pass a contract through their majority of votes any decrease in workrules/pay for the west for gains in the east is a breach of USAPAs duty to represent the west pilots.

USAPA would lose this case and you would see a wage garnishment to make the west pilots whole.

Actually it does matter.

As for the TA. I have said repeatedly the validity of the TA is still in question. So I have no clue as to what is going to happen with it. An ALPA attorney has said it disappears. Another attorney says it stays. So I really don't know. Actually the single contract will be what it is. As long as it applies to all pilots. If our divided state is only able to negotiate a concessionary contract in light of the present economic situation, then so be it. No DFR from your side if you take a pay cut. If you keep what you got and the new contract separates us by pay for the same craft and class, I could have a DFR too. That is why your whole premise is fantasy.

If it makes you feel happy, why don't you go spend that garnishment now? Or better yet, I win a DFR and garnish your wages down to equality for all. Now that would be something I hope you come up with something better than DFR! DFR! sounds like Gomer Pyle crying Citizens Arrest! Citizens Arrest! Try again.

 

[prechilill]

Prechilill,

I believe you are correct. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knows the answer. If I were to guess, if it came up as an agenda item, it would be the pilots, not some but all, would have a vote to determine if those guys, the Empire pilots, would get their DOH on the list.

I see... selective application of the rules, all based on what the majority thinks. NOthing standard, just a fluid environment we will all live in. What applies today may not apply tomorrow- it all depends on what the group wants at that time. George Orwell wrote a great book about this- Animal Farm. Never mind logic, that would just get in the way with how USAPA conducts business. It is all about mob rule.

 

[prechilill]

Actually it does matter.

As for the TA. I have said repeatedly the validity of the TA is still in question.

THe only people questioning the validity of the TA are people like yourself. For the rest of us in the real world, we know better. Your buddy elixr actually believes Nicolau is just a "hypothetical document", or something in that sense.
As always, you guys never fail to amuse.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I've almost come to miss AWA320..who was, along with the west contingent..going to file personal actions that were destined to allow them all to take ownership of our homes.....words fail me overall here...other than: You folks DO actually fly planes?....!????

Yea me too. But I really miss Junebug"Booshaka"172. Now that was fun.

 

[EastUS]

THe only people questioning the validity of the TA are people like yourself. For the rest of us in the real world, we know better. Your buddy elixr actually believes Nicolau is just a "hypothetical document", or something in that sense.
As always, you guys never fail to amuse.

Actually Madam Communications Chairperson...'twas indeed your very own vaunted Alpa's lawyers that first suggested, and then directly stated, that the TA would vanish, were ever their elegant voices no longer to be heard. Ummm..What's changed within the "Party Line" since then?...Just curious 🙄

 

[flynomore]

I see...NOthing standard, just a fluid environment we will all live in. What applies today may not apply tomorrow- it all depends on what the group wants at that time. George Orwell wrote a great book about this- Animal Farm. Never mind logic, that would just get in the way with how USAPA conducts business. It is all about mob rule.

============================================================

Sort of like the false god of relativity? Everybody likes Orwell.

AAA ALPA bad, AWA ALPA good. Sound familiar?

ALPA says (MEC MOB) DOH bad.

So again, why are some animals more equal than others? since you like George so.