U.S. Pilot Labor Thread 8/3 - 8/10

[lynyrdskynyrd]

USAPA doesn't want to destroy anyone, especially not over an "accusation." The court will determine what is accusation and what is fact, that's why we have a court system.

If the court determines fact, then I think USAPA is really looking to recover damages and legal fees. They will probably be happy to settle it out of court. If the damages and legal fees force someone into bankruptcy, then that's the price to pay for doing illegal acts. The offer to settle had already been presented. USAPA wants nothing more than to break even on this, but it seems they are willing to make whatever investment it takes to see whatever the justice is that the courts will provide. It's the American way. It might not be perfect, but it is what it is.

You truly are out to lunch. You are taking everything a few evil people tell you at face value. (Deleted by Moderator. Namecalling.)

 

[HighbutFast]

Reading some of these posts from the east gives me the shivers. Looking into an east mind simply amazes me. What planet are some of you from?

You are ready to completely destroy someone's life because of an accusation, no proof just the accusation. That complaint was written to collect over $5 million from each individual. Did Bradford ever explain that to you. Never saw that printed anywhere did you. He only said that they want the activity to stop. No USAPA wants to malicious harm west pilots and so do you.

Unless you are completely oblivious, there are 18 named individuals on the complaint also, not just against some faceless organization. The way the complaint was filed each individual is on the hook for those millions that you are so eager to collect. Would it give you great pleasure to see 18 families have to file bankruptcy and lose everything that they have worked for their entire life so you can feel better about yourself? Is that what makes you happy, inflicting misery on others?

You disgust me, as you gleefully hope for the destruction of someone else.

Because of your attitude people like you have encouraged USAPA to use the tyranny of the majority and the power of taxation on it's members to destroy fellow pilots.

In your two examples: First you used the dung in the envelope. Yes, prove it is an appropriate question. Prove it, who did it? Do you have a name? Thank goodness there are rules and not just self appoint dictators deciding cases. There is absolutely no evidence of who mailed anything.

And for the doll that you and eastus seem to be so obsessed about. Someone brings it up every week. That was a one page, one day story back in May. Do you have any more information about that situation? Anything at all? If not STFU and let it go.

As far as being an adult and professional pilot. How about you try to be a human being and stop trying to make the world as miserable as you are.

I rest my case..."who?'...."prove it..." which ones?....
Don't cry to me pal, the guilty parties know who they are...if you are so concerned about all your buddies going under the bus for the actions of a few loose screws out there, then weed them out and bring them forward.
Otherwise, they all go down with the ship...it's the way it is.

Do I WANT to see families destroyed? Of course not...but, hey, I guess daddy might have thought about that before engaging in the gang's behavior....

hmmmm....

Yep, thats how I see it.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The suit lost and the appeal will lose for such obvious reasons: there's no conspiracy. I've no doubt some pilots committed some of the acts alleged in the complaint but the suit is based on those actions being a collective effort by AWAPPA. They're not. Every effort by AWAPPA against USAPA has been completely in the open and legal. There was no organization behind the pilots' actions; it was just spontaneous emotional response. No RICO, no racketeering, no conspiracy. That's why the appeal will fail and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

break

Last night an AWA crew (mine) shared a van ride to the hotel with an East crew. Nothing of note happened. That is all.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The suit lost and the appeal will lose for such obvious reasons: there's no conspiracy. I've no doubt some pilots committed some of the acts alleged in the complaint but the suit is based on those actions being a collective effort by AWAPPA. They're not. Every effort by AWAPPA against USAPA has been completely in the open and legal. There was no organization behind the pilots' actions; it was just spontaneous emotional response. No RICO, no racketeering, no conspiracy. That's why the appeal will fail and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

break

Last night an AWA crew (mine) shared a van ride to the hotel with an East crew. Nothing of note happened. That is all.

Your own former MEC chairman has been quoted as saying that if USAPA won, it would be war. Whether these actions were organized or tolerated in the form of deliberate neglect, your group has conducted itself in exactly the way your former and present leadership has promised. The scale of these "spontaneous emotional responses" resembles guerilla tactics rather than isolated outbursts.

 

[jetjok1]

The suit lost and the appeal will lose for such obvious reasons: there's no conspiracy. I've no doubt some pilots committed some of the acts alleged in the complaint but the suit is based on those actions being a collective effort by AWAPPA. They're not. Every effort by AWAPPA against USAPA has been completely in the open and legal. There was no organization behind the pilots' actions; it was just spontaneous emotional response. No RICO, no racketeering, no conspiracy. That's why the appeal will fail and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

break

Last night an AWA crew (mine) shared a van ride to the hotel with an East crew. Nothing of note happened. That is all.

I have ridden on many van rides with west coast crews and "nothing of note happened". I expect that. I expect that we would be more civil and respectful in public than we are here on these boards. I mostly read and take in the information that is presented here. If gives me a picture of what (albeit a tiny,tiny cross-section) both the east and west is made up of. And I can tell you- it's not a pretty picture. I only hope and pray that we can get our "ACT" together. We are pointing the crosshairs at the wrong target. The true target is management, the economy, oil, competition... We need to direct our energies to that end.

We are "ALL" professionals here. None of us, and I mean none of us, wouldn't have gotten where we are today if we didn't bring some expertise to the "mix". So, I pose a question to all- Why not bring that expertise out and focus it where we could do some good. Can we make it happen? You bet- but it will take 100% participation.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

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Last night an AWA crew (mine) shared a van ride to the hotel with an East crew. Nothing of note happened. That is all.

Glad nothing "happened". Ditto on the ride sharing. At least we were cordial to each other. Not much was said though. The F/A's did all the talking. Lately, have had some DAL pilots in our vans. In the past year they have said more than the previous 20 combined. Amazing how adversity opens people up to dialog.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The scale of these "spontaneous emotional responses" resembles guerilla tactics rather than isolated outbursts.

Funny, the judge ruled that wasn't the case. Where's the proof behind your opinion? I'm on the AWAPPA board frequently and I post frequently. One of my posts was even featured in one of the plaintiff's exhibits. A couple of pilots made some suggestions and numerous pilots decided to act in kind. The fact that this occured on a message board owned by AWAPPA may cause them some liability but that's a far cry from Rico and racketeering charges.

Of course we want to destroy USAPA -- as a purely defensive measure. To quote Rambo, you drew first blood. But AWAPPA has every intent of doing it legally. Your attempt to elevate the actions of individual pilots to a conspiracy has failed and will continue to fail because there's no proof. Very simple.

 

[jimntx]

As someone who doesn't have a dog in this hunt, but who is a union member at another airline, I'm just wondering if any of you have ever considered this point...

The company has all of you right where they want you--divide and conquer tactics have been used by a lot of companies for a long, long time. As long as you are at each other's throats the company doesn't have to worry about seriously negotiating with any of you for a new, unified contract.

 

[exB717Flyer]

As long as you are at each other's throats the company doesn't have to worry about seriously negotiating with any of you for a new, unified contract.

Of course you're right and the solution is simple: USAPA needs to drop their attempt to get around binding arbitration. Right now USAPA is a far greater enemy of the West than management so we have no choice but to fight them.

 

[N924PS]

As someone who doesn't have a dog in this hunt, but who is a union member at another airline, I'm just wondering if any of you have ever considered this point...

The company has all of you right where they want you--divide and conquer tactics have been used by a lot of companies for a long, long time. As long as you are at each other's throats the company doesn't have to worry about seriously negotiating with any of you for a new, unified contract.

Do you think this is the reason why management can only budget 6 negotiating days in the next 60 calendar days towards crafting a new contract?

 

[Phoenix]

... it will take 100% participation.

Participation...

Bingo for jetjok1!

Was anyone paying attention?

We might clarify that those who have a vote have to participate (at 100%). Those who choose to have no vote don't have to participate, they just have to follow the law.

 

[Phoenix]

As someone who doesn't have a dog in this hunt, but who is a union member at another airline, I'm just wondering if any of you have ever considered this point...

The company has all of you right where they want you--divide and conquer tactics have been used by a lot of companies for a long, long time. As long as you are at each other's throats the company doesn't have to worry about seriously negotiating with any of you for a new, unified contract.

We could be unified like Olympic drummers and it wouldn't change things much. (By the way the pilots who can vote are sorta unified.)

Yet, why is the company going to try to get a contract anytime soon? They already have pilots operating at commuter level wages (190), and any contract will cost them more money than it does now.

If I were the company I'ld drag out negotiations for a few years, downsize out of the West, and hope ALPA gets voted back in. :blink:

 

[Phoenix]

...DAL pilots in our vans. In the past year they have said more than the previous 20 combined. Amazing how adversity opens people up to dialog.

Not long ago the only thing I heard DAL say on a hotel van was "You can't ride our van. Our contract requires that our van carries only one crew at a time."

 

[N924PS]

Not long ago the only thing I heard DAL say on a hotel van was "You can't ride our van. Our contract requires that our van carries only one crew at a time."

I hope you told them you would be happy to send the van right back for them!

 

[dariencc]

Of course we want to destroy USAPA -- as a purely defensive measure. To quote Rambo,

"To quote Rambo"