Pilot labor thread week 4/27-5/3

[uSCABa]

Your still a funny person. Thanks for the entertainment.

You really have been living in a vacuum. We cared, believe it or not. But trying to recall those reps recently proved fruitless, thanks to ALPA. So we just recalled the whole union. Not bad for a bunch of old guys, huh?

Your right, a lanyard doesn't make the person. My principles have remain unchanged before, during and after the election. ALPA needed to go. Guess what? It has.

You don't need to bet me. I would still offer to buy if we have a common layover, no matter what happens. But that's me.

I do have a heart you know...since you'll be on LOA 93 forever, and USCABA will never get a solitary dime of contractual improvement, I'll buy.

Since you "old guys" haven't proved anything other than you can navigate a website, and cast a self entitled vote, ( which is better than my elderly mother, I'll admit) forgive me if I intend to withhold judgment as to whether or not you can accomplish anything. With no support and a litany of lawsuits headed your way, I'd say "no". but we'll see.

 

[uSCABa]

Wow. You don't want much do you? What are you expecting from USAPA communications? We didn't get a mailing list from the company until late last week. as for e-mails, it takes your taking the time to send it to us to get you on a mailing list. No e-mail address, no e-mail. Not to hard to understand is it?

As for west reps. have you signed up to participate? By your posts I would say no. But in the middle of June, if there are any members out west they will have a rep(s) dependent on total membership. The intent is there, we can't make you join. Why don't you interview for a rep position? Oh thats right you won't join or pay dues. Great idea. It does make things less complicated.

Actually there is a plan to represent all the member pilots at USAirways. Believe it or not.

Come on, You know the night before the vote that you lied awake all night...praying to christ that USAPA wouldn't win. You knew then, what we're all just finding out now...USAPA is an empty threat, a pre-fab failure of an entity... You know that there is no way to even remotely back up your lame promises. How much easier would your life be if USCABA simply lost and you didn't have to actually step up to the plate? That way you could take the SCAB way out...blame somebody else for your failures...."well, we didn't get the votes!!!" You got the extra 8% of the votes...a whopping mandate.

Let's see what you've got.

"Beware of what you wish..."
(Emperor Hirohito...1941)

 

[prechilill]

YAWN... You really bore me to death. Enjoy Nic... and see you at the ALPA Welcome Back Party.

HA HA HA HA Ha That is one for the quote boards!

Have you heard? St. Nic is heading to Chicago!

 

[prechilill]

Reputation..indeed It may astonish you, but I've friends that are very senior check airman at UAL..should I put in a "good word" for your sorts?

If UA and LCC merge then maybe you can fly with your friends again at UAL? Of course, with the Nicolau seniority you will probably be on opposite ends of the seniority list from your buds, but nevertheless I am sure you will enjoy seeing them again.

 

[prechilill]

"I see... selective application of the rules, all based on what the majority thinks."

Welcome to America. If any/all are to ever be crucified in some upcoming merger by the same notions..so be it.

"NOthing standard, just a fluid environment we will all live in."

I might be so bold as to suggest gaining some actual moral standards, and consistently reasonable notions to proceed by in your life..DOH comes to mind..but..no matter

I'm most curious though = What's "standard" about your "Gimme Nic!..I want RELATIVE seniority..It's ALL about MEEE!"....ummm..scratch that last. The human race has an established failing of often being tasked by the "It's ALL about MEEE!" whack-cases/dictators/sociopaths/etc...and countless lives are continually snuffed out on an ongoing basis, or made utterly miserable by such "thinking"...sadly...nothing new there. What we all "really need" is yet more notions of "It's ALL relative...and it's relatively ALL about Meee!"...sheesh.

"George Orwell wrote a great book about this- Animal Farm" No kidding?!!??? Umm...did YOU ever actually READ it? You should try it some time. I'd be happy to quote you chapter and verse = "Some animals are MORE EQUAL than others"..seemingly as per the AWA "Righteous Position" = "Pigs are more equal than other animals".

" Never mind logic," Umm..sorry..I'm stuck with the "logic" thing...you might see your life much-improved by actually trying it someday...just a thought from an "old scraggly guy" and a very honest suggestion.

You are funny. No question about it, you have the ability to make a lot of people laugh around here. I guess that is why some of us keep coming around, for the comedy-drama you provide. Kind of like going to the zoo and watching the monkeys eat banana after banana. You know, the slow, quiet yet mind-numbing entertainment. Maybe it is your creatvitiy of penning an entire paragraph of words, all of which have independent meaning but taken together the words say absolutely nothing. And yes, you do kind of remind me of a certain animal from Orwell's acclaimed novel- and I mean that with the utmost of respect to you, sir. Maybe you could read the novel one day, I highly recommend it.

 

[Piedmont1984]

You know, while all of us self appointed pundits and prophets have been slinging the fan fodder at each other for the last year or more - on these boards as well as others - something happened.

I can recall mixing it up with AWA320, Aquagreen and others right after the Nic award and I argued that what the east needed most of all - next to ridding themselves of ALPA - was time. We needed to delay as best we could the damage wrought by Nicolau upon several hundred of our F/O's whose reasonable career expectations were dashed by his award. And yes, as long as USAirways was a going concern, these F/O's had every expectation of upgrading before they retired; which is how attrition is supposed to work. And whether we accomplished such a delay through the courtroom, the committee room or the polling booth, it didn't matter. Like one of you on the west said - no one wants to retire as a F/O.

Every pilot on the property, east and west, should have the opportunity to make it to the captain's seat at some point in their career. The Nic would have shut the door to that option for our F/O's.

So with the benefit of time, we have taken that opportunity and I have been gratified to see many of my fellow pilots either upgrade or have the opportunity to do so made available to them. Those upgrades cost the west absolutely nothing.

Having a union of our own is the icing on the cake.

 

[767jetz]

"I'm afraid we've woken a sleeping giant"

(emperor Hirohito 1941)

Yes they have. And if there is a merger with UA you will have another 8000 pilots on your side.

 

[767jetz]

Just Like I had nothing to do with the loss of over 2k men 67 years ago, I had nothing to do with your rotten careers, your pathetic MEC, and the myriad bad choices you made to stay and try and make your "pixburg" airline work...even though two of your three bases are shrinking/dying cities.

Again professor, not my problem and I will stop at nothing to undermine and destroy every effort you make to deprive my family of what I've earned....sorry you failed, I didn't.

I love you "newbie's!"

Welcome aboard! Isn't this fun?

 

[john john]

Yes they have. And if there is a merger with UA you will have another 8000 pilots on your side.

I just don't know anymore. maybe the best way to say it is that DOH protects those at the top, while relative seniority protects those at the bottom. And both have every right to some degree of protection. Somewhere in between probably lies a solution in any future mergers. Unfortunately, the waters have been poisoned by posturing, stubbornness, and a shear lack of compromise. Although I'm sure we disagree, I hold only individuals responsible for such actions, not ALPA National, USAPA or any other organization. People can always choose to do what's right regardless of who is watching. One can only hope that the water dilutes a bit before we are forced to drink from it again.

What is the career expatiations and windfall of Untied NOW with their present financial situation and Continental analysis on their rejection to abandon them? Lets get it out in the open now. If you ask that question to anybody that has any thing to do with labor management and law you will get HOW MANY DIFFERENT ANSWERS
Career expatiations and no windfall is not the answer to merge seniority in today’s subjective environment

 

[wopr21]

Holy S***!!! An Eastinfection calling the West "whiners". OH that is FUNNY!!!!!!. You incontinent D-bags whined yourselves into the unchanging world of SCABDOM. You have NO Integrity, you have ZERO bargaining power, you will be sued into oblivion, you are universally reviled by REAL pilots, and the best part...your Parasite Lawyer has been lying to you the whole time. How many millions of dollars will he collect telling you geriatrics what you want to hear? Does your parasite lawyer have any vested interest to actually be correct? NO. Not ever.

That light at the end of the Tunnel is either Reality or UAL. There was a time for negotiation. Either way,You blew it...again. No Mercy.

Nic. Sticks now and forever. Scabs are Scabs Forever. It's over for you. Who would have thought that being scabs was the only thing that would unite "Bubba" and "Rusthead". New phrase, "Bubbarust".
That's pittsburgheese for SCAB.

A "union" whose largest pilot base has no reps and no members is never, NEVER going to be successful.
I guess it's that east coast Kennedy School of baseless entitlement that has fueled all you SCABS.

You made your bed, and now you'll be forced to lay in it. SCABS

Damn ...switch to decaf.. will you

 

[luvthe9]

Yes they have. And if there is a merger with UA you will have another 8000 pilots on your side.

The only problem the West thinks they are entitled to all you 74s and 777s since "they" saved you from your next bankruptcy

 

[john john]

The only problem the West thinks they are entitled to all you 74s and 777s since "they" saved you from your next bankruptcy

That could be argue but it might be US on top of the financial problem UAL
UA cant kept loosing money at the current rate
Something has to be done doom and glum

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I predict a prepackaged chapter 11 at UAL, just like TWA did when they merged with AA. That would allow the shedding of assets without having to pay them off. Just a hunch. I don't think LCC could do that, since it has almost 3 billion in the bank.

I'm still thinking that it may not happen in quite the form everyone thinks it will. It may involve selling.trading assets to other companies (fragmentation) of either or both. That may be where AA and CO play a part.

 

[767jetz]

The only problem the West thinks they are entitled to all you 74s and 777s since "they" saved you from your next bankruptcy

Yeah, we've heard that one before. Pure fantasy. Let them say what they want. They will argue every point they can, just like DOH. And we all know how that went down in front of an arbitrator and 2 neutrals. Rational intelligent people can easily see through the smoke and mirrors.

Here is a repost of a very well thought response. Notice no one has even attempted to refute it with any factual information. (Because it is spot on.)

I see that the misrepresentation of United's financial situation is starting again.

To correct the quoted statement above with some facts, United had a negative cash flow of $80 million during the first quarter of 2008, or a daily burn rate of about $880,000. This was due in part to a debt pre-payment of $250 million during the quarter. Had that debt pre-payment not been made, United would have had a positive cash flow of $170 million during the quarter. And the carrier's unrestricted cash balance was $2.92 billion. When added to its restricted cash of $730 million, United's total cash amounted to $3.65 billion.

In contrast, US Airways reported a first quarter 2008 negative cash flow of $167 million or a daily burn rate of more than $1.8 million, all without any reduction in the carrier's debt level. As a result, US Airways' unrestricted cash total was a little less than $2.4 billion.

While it is certainly clear that neither United nor US Airways gave a stellar financial performance during the first quarter of 2008, I believe that these numbers put a different perspective on which of those two carriers is in a stronger financial position at the moment.

Remember during UA's bankruptcy, people who were clamoring for UA's demise kept doing the same thing. They would claim over and over how UA would not emerge because they were losing so much money, would miss their DIP financing covenants, would not be able to obtain exit financing, would be forced to turn to equity capital and loan sharks, USAirways would be UA's savior, and on and on and on. None of that actually happened and they were all proven wrong. All throughout there were those of us who said... just relax and watch the cash flow. That is the true indicator of the company's health. The other numbers are easily manipulated to reflect what the accountants want.

Well here we go again. No one is saying that UA's performance was stellar. Quite the opposite. But put into perspective, the negative cash flow was $80Million... Half of what USAirways negative cash flow was. Now someone tell me again who is burning through the money faster? And UA paid down a substantial amount of debt in the first quarter as opposed to US paying down none. Absent that debt repayment, to compare apples to apples, UA had a POSITIVE cash flow of $170Million compared with US's NEGATIVE cash flow of $167Million. You can't spin these numbers in any way. They are what they are. And they clearly show that while both companies are not doing great, UA still has far better cash flow than USAirways. Additionally, UA has FAR more unencumbered assets to borrow against than USAirways.

Let's also remember that Q1 is historically the worst quarter for all airlines. Everyone is raising fares to offset fuel costs (FINALLY!) and these additional revenues will take some time to show up on the bottom line. UA has more pricing power than US due to our much larger international presence. Tilton was also playing a game of chicken that he lost. With increased pressure from unions, he wanted to show a bad performance so he could cry poverty. He did such a good job he scared CO away. But seriously, while no one knows exactly why CO changed course and it is all speculation, the biggest reason is probably the labor unrest that CO was rightfully afraid would poison their relatively healthy culture. As I said, the numbers don't lie, and any financial analyst can see through the window dressing and find the truth.

I've said it before and I will say it again... Watch the cash flow. To believe that USAirways is healthy and can buy UA with a cash burn of more than twice UA's is a pipe dream. It's wishful thinking at best. Also look at the stock price. As soon as speculation of a merger happened, US's price went up and UA's down. This is usually an indicator that it is widely believed it is a good deal for US and a not so good deal for UA. UA will be in the drivers seat and pay a premium to US for their shares, diluting UA's shares. IF it actually happens, you will also see the USAirways name and call sign disappear over time, HQ will remain in Chicago, and Tilton will remain (unfortunately) in some form. Expect completely new management though.

 

[767jetz]

I predict a prepackaged chapter 11 at UAL,

With $3.65 Billion on hand? You're joking, right?