Members Walk The Floors In Tulsa!

[RV4]

Bob please explain the difference when you have delle coming to a meeting passing out $20 dollars cigars and The $800,000 a year income McCormick wearing $2000 dollar suits? What is the difference? Is this where the extra money is going?

CIO,

It appears the difference is 17.5% more pay in your paycheck, along with 5 more vacation days, 5 more holidays, limits on outsourcing, attorneys at arbitration, ect.

Not to mention the big one.

Mechanics would be the voting majority in AMFA, unlike the TWU where mechanics are a simple minority. BIG DIFFERNECE THERE PAL!

 

[Rusty]

Why is it the international officers such as Jim Little did not have to take a pay cut with this concessionary contract???

Why is it our local 514 officers held an officers meeting and decided they should not cut their officers pay like the rest of the membership had to???

 

[Steve Connell]

Steve's idea of Unionism was never "in date", he is a "Company Unionist".

Bob..what I have not done is shred my integrity, proving myself to be a political monkey as yourself. Are you sure you're not a lawyer? And you are SO correct...my ideas of unionism do NOT resemble yours what so ever. My past unions all have faults, show me one Bob that does not. I see though, that if we do not follow your ideals we are archaic and such, well Bob, tell me...what makes you the final word on unionism? Your past talent of deceit? Yeah right...do us all a favor and keep your ideals to yourself.

Also Bob...who really cares what you think? Not I.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Bob..what I have not done is shred my integrity

You've got to have some integrity first in order to shred it. Keep talking Steve, this should be worth another 20 cards today.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob Wrote:The TWU has become a business, a business that has entered into a profitable arrangement with several employers to maximize dues flow. Whether its the largest airline (AA) or the most profitable airline (SWA) you will find that TWU represented employees make much less than their counterparts at other carriers(Mechanics at AA, Flight attendants at SWA).

Bob please explain the difference when you have delle coming to a meeting passing out $20 dollars cigars and The $800,000 a year income McCormick wearing $2000 dollar suits? What is the difference? Is this where the extra money is going?

The difference is in the product thats delivered. One services the members and the other services the companies that provide them members.

Unions are supposed to get the best deal for the members, if thats the case then explain why if you go to AA, TWU represented mechanics are among the lowest of the majors? You cant say its because of the state of the company because when you go to SWA, TWU represented flights attendants are among the lowest and they also have to clean the planes for no pay. Whats common about these two work groups other than they are among the lowest paid? They are both represented by the TWU.

Sure AMFA may be a business too, but the product that they deliver to dues paying members is superior when compared to the TWU, thats why there are no drives to leave AMFA to speak of yet several drives to leave the TWU.

The $20 cigars, $800,000/year McCormick and $2000 suit (how would you know how much it costs) may all be legitimate like Sonnys $900,000/year office on Broadway and the $350,000 that they spent on cars, $105,000 secretary for Sonny Hall, etc, but if I was not giving up $20,000 plus vacation and all the other stuff all those figures would mean nothing to me. However when a union takes my dues, then takes away everything else then I want to know why I'm paying dues and what they are being used for if they are not being used to protect and improve my earnings.

 

[Buck]

political monkey

As far as I am concerned, anyone who contributes to political causes through their union dues, without having any clue as to where these monies are going is a political monkey.

 

[Checking it Out]

Bob wrote;

The $20 cigars, $800,000/year McCormick and $2000 suit (how would you know how much it costs) may all be legitimate like Sonnys $900,000/year office on Broadway and the $350,000 that they spent on cars, $105,000 secretary for Sonny Hall, etc, but if I was not giving up $20,000 plus vacation and all the other stuff all those figures would mean nothing to me. However when a union takes my dues, then takes away everything else then I want to know why I'm paying dues and what they are being used for if they are not being used to protect and improve my earnings.

TWU= 300,000 members plus---------------Amfa=18,000 members
Supports Politics------------------------------No Politics (shoe leather only)

Do you get the picture?

 

[Checking it Out]

I see the anti-amfa shirts are out selling the amfanow shirts by a 2 to 1 margin. The officers and shop reps are coming out in force and the members are glad to see the atmosphere has greatly improved.

Keep up the Great Job all you TWU Brothers and Sisters,

buck I hear you have caught up on your back dues, Glad to see you have come back on board. Keep up the strong support of the TWU!
How are the monkeys doing in your part of the world? Are you still feeding them?

 

[yipikiya]

CHECKING IT OUT;

THATS ACTUALLY : 300,000 TWU = UNSKILLED LOW PAID BUS DRIVERS
AND TWU CREATED OSM'S.




: 18,000 AMFA = HIGHLY SKILLED, VERY RESPECT,
BETTER PAID, AICRAFT MECHANICS. SOON
TO BE 34,000 STRONG AND GROWING!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Also Bob...who really cares what you think? Not I.

Then why did you reply?

 

[Rusty]

TWU= 300,000 members plus---------------Amfa=18,000 members

Soon to be 276,000 memebers minus -------------Amfa = 36,000 members plus.

Of course this isn't including the other airlines signing up.

Personally, I would bet the TWU will not be representing any airline employees 2 to 5 years from now.

I see the anti-amfa shirts are out selling the amfanow shirts by a 2 to 1 margin. The officers and shop reps are coming out in force and the members are glad to see the atmosphere has greatly improved.

I have seen one of those shirts already. LMAO An AMFA person would be told to change it or would be sent home to change an anti-TWU shirt. In my shop there is an anti-AMFA sticker on a tool box. Everyone in the shop has seen it but, no one really cares because it is just a sticker that means nothing. Same goes for anti-AMFA T-shirts. You guys really need to get a life!!! Wanna play Rock Paper Scissors???? ROTFLMAO

I do agree the atmosphere is improving every day at AA as the cards just keep rolling in.

 

[Raptor]

Advanced Member
Qoute from checking it out

Group: Advanced Member
Posts: 254
Member No.: 2,067
Joined: 3-April 03

I see the anti-amfa shirts are out selling the amfanow shirts by a 2 to 1 margin. The officers and shop reps are coming out in force and the members are glad to see the atmosphere has greatly improved.
Keep up the Great Job all you TWU Brothers and Sisters,
buck I hear you have caught up on your back dues, Glad to see you have come back on board. Keep up the strong support of the TWU!
How are the monkeys doing in your part of the world? Are you still feeding them




You like the new anti-AMFA shirts checking it out, you do of course know that an AMFA supporter is selling those shirts to help with the AMFA drive. 😛
LOL

actually I don't know who is selling the anti-AMFA shirts but a pro AMFA guy could sell shirts like that to generate money for the AMFA drive and you idiots would buy them and fund the drive.
just something to think about the next time you buy one of those shirts.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU= 300,000 members plus---------------Amfa=18,000 members
Supports Politics------------------------------No Politics (shoe leather only)

Do you get the picture?

CIO;
Shame on you. An officer of the International and you dont even know how many people our organization represents! Or as usual are you attempting to decieve?

300,000? Come on now, you should know that its only around 100,000.

Do you always triple the number? "Honestly honey, its SIX not two".

Lets see if all the drives are successful, just at AA, it will knock the TWU down to around 65,000 members. Ouch, now we know why they were so scared of the company's threats of Bankruptcy. They may no longer be able to afford those digs at 1700 Broadway. Whats that they have a long term lease? Well there is always subletting. I hear there is some dissatisfaction over at SWA, oops maybe another 6000, 51000.

If we go to AMFA they will have around 34000, plus USAIR 7000(?), 41000.
That would be around 41000 concentrated in one industry on one class and craft vs being in a union that represents anybody from any industry, from Flight attendants, to transit to wharehouse. The numbers are not that much bigger however the limited resources for the TWU will be spread far and wide while the less limited *resources for AMFA will be focused and intense.

Admittedly AMFA does have to focus more on the political arena, but growth should provide that ability. ( The addition of AA could nearly double the size of the union.)The TWU has failed to use its political clout to help mechanics, it is only now, more than 10 years after the fact that they are going after FAR 145 with any vigor and they still have no plan to fight FAR 66 when it comes back.

Do YOU get the picture?

I claim that AMFAs resources are likely to be less limited than the TWU due to the fact that mechanics are on the high end of the TWU represented workers in pay, in other words, per person the amount of dues collected will be higher with less people to represent. When we left local 501 it was said that we were 25% of the members but 40% of the dues.

 

[j7915]

TWU= 300,000 members plus---------------Amfa=18,000 members
Supports Politics------------------------------No Politics (shoe leather only)

Do you get the picture?

CIO;
Shame on you. An officer of the International and you dont even know how many people our organization represents! Or as usual are you attempting to decieve?

300,000? Come on now, you should know that its only around 100,000.

Do you always triple the number? "Honestly honey, its SIX not two".

Lets see if all the drives are successful, just at AA, it will knock the TWU down to around 65,000 members. Ouch, now we know why they were so scared of the company's threats of Bankruptcy. They may no longer be able to afford those digs at 1700 Broadway. Whats that they have a long term lease? Well there is always subletting. I hear there is some dissatisfaction over at SWA, oops maybe another 6000, 51000.

If we go to AMFA they will have around 34000, plus USAIR 7000(?), 41000.
That would be around 41000 concentrated in one industry on one class and craft vs being in a union that represents anybody from any industry, from Flight attendants, to transit to wharehouse. The numbers are not that much bigger however the limited resources for the TWU will be spread far and wide while the less limited *resources for AMFA will be focused and intense.

Admittedly AMFA does have to focus more on the political arena, but growth should provide that ability. ( The addition of AA could nearly double the size of the union.)The TWU has failed to use its political clout to help mechanics, it is only now, more than 10 years after the fact that they are going after FAR 145 with any vigor and they still have no plan to fight FAR 66 when it comes back.

Do YOU get the picture?

I claim that AMFAs resources are likely to be less limited than the TWU due to the fact that mechanics are on the high end of the TWU represented workers in pay, in other words, per person the amount of dues collected will be higher with less people to represent. When we left local 501 it was said that we were 25% of the members but 40% of the dues.

Now suddenly AMFA will get into politics? You guys and the ecstatically selected neo-cons deserve each other. Say anything prior to getting into power and then renege on the, show me the documentation, promises.

Elections are as much about perception as they are about documented statements. Do you really believe that the scattering of, "highly skilled and respected," mechanics will sway any politician? Least of all the conservatives that the AMFA pushers here in OK prefer, for reasons far removed from the workplace.

Posting replies to AMFA "true believers" is akin to punching a marshmellow, and unfortunately seeing the results at NWA and Alaskan, not to mention UAL, AMFA has about as much strength when it comes to protecting jobs.

 

[Bob Owens]

This was an opinion, not a promise.

If we do go AMFA I will get involved and I will push for more political involvement. I do not agree that we should only use "shoe leather".

With the addition of AA, AMFA will likely pick up USAIR and Continental before the year is out. They could even surpass the TWU in membership within a few years.

Once AMFA feels they have all the mechanics they are going to get they can apply to join the AFL-CIO. I'm sure that the TWU,IBT and IAM will balk but if they balk too much they may find themselves alienating themselves from all the Craft Unions in the AFL-CIO. The IAM and IBT will probably shrug it off easier than the TWU. Their loss is minimal since they have 730,000 and 1.4 million members each. The AFL-CIO allowed the Air Traffic Controllers back in. They also readmitted unions that left to raid and then came back.

There is a movement within the AFL-CIO for restructuring the labor movement, read the SEIUs paper "United We Win". It attacks the notion of catch all unions in favor of forming unions that can focus on and better serve particular workers. It falls right in line with the idea of merging all the ATDs into one union. However one person who was with the AFL-CIO with whom I spoke to after getting suspended admitted that more than likely the only way that such a union could be formed is by decertifying the TWU,IAM,and IBT because their leaders are so myopic and self serving that they would never agree to such a plan, even though all airline workers, and in turn possibly the entire labor movement would benifit.

There is truth to your statements about elections however thats democracy, and its better than the alternative. In other words its better than what we have now.