Members Walk The Floors In Tulsa!

[MCI AFL-CIO]

Raptor, I beleive otherwise, say for instance, you and your friends, AMFA supporters would go, in numbers, and peacefully, stand annd ask to amend certain bylaw changes? Its true if you go alone, nothing will b edone, your outnumbered, but a group, will be listend to?
ASk for a copy of the financial report and scrutinize where your money is going?read yopur local bylaws and decide what must be changed and how? The international will listen if enough members participate, and without hatred?
Its true we gave concessions, but no one will ever be able to convince me that if we were AMFA, we would not have given the same concessions, AA is different than NWA, so noway of knowing the outcome.

 

[Buck]

It is my belief that you cannot fix the TWU. You are wasting your time, but it is yours to waste. The only problem is that you are part of my craft and class. While you play your hand, the whole profession suffers. But you have the right to discover this for yourself.

I should not have to remind all of you that RTW does not apply to those under the RLA. As Bob Owens notes, it may someday. At this point it is a tool of the AFL-CIO to underscore the real issues that face the mechanic craft and class.

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

Buck, Thank you, Its always a pleasure to read posts from you.

While it is true the RTW does not apply to the airline industry,it does apply to others in the workforce, It also applies to the non union member. So in a way, it eventually does effect all of us.
Because of union involvements in politics, the non union workers have benefited, I will say my family in general in general, because of the involvement, the payscale has gone upwards, the benefits, vacations, etc.
To me, its not fair that a loyal member pays dues and another co worker does not and receives the same benefits?

Buck, to me if you and I support our local and take a more active role, thats not a waste of anyones time, its a benefit for all, it is true there is strentgh in numbers, not the violent strentgh but democratic strength

I disagree playing a hyand the whole profession suffers, AMFA to me is an untried union so far, sure they represent airlines, 1 major until earlier this year, and a group of small airlines, but as of yet they are still untested.
It will be interesting to see what happens at NorthWest when their contract comes dues, sure we can all predict the outcome, your views differ from mine and mine differ from yours, but that will be the true test, the smaller airliens they represent, how have they done with acquiring contracts? I dont beleive I hear the names of thsoe airline s at the top of the payscales?

You can make a difference in your local

 

[Buck]

Ok if we take it your way, when will AMFA ever get a chance to become tested? Smaller airlines? , and the TWU allows there own version of a smaller airline right in the heart of AA, the OSM. I think I will research a comparasion between the OSM and the pay and benefits of the regional carriers you appear to disdain so much.

And those of you who continue to support the outmoded TWU, will never catch the real point, that being the power of all of the mechanic craft and class under one banner. It would be as if all of the pilots were as one. The division industrial unionism sows is why labor is failing. Past unionists made gains for workers rights and now today the non-union workforce has virtually the same benefits. Your propagation of this historical way of thinking will at some point destroy what unionism we have left. The time is now to unite as a craft union and use our strength for our profession and not worry about the other work groups. Lets fix our broken representation first, then we can look to the others.

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

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Buck, Why wouyld you and I and our workforce want to be the first group to test AMFA? Wouldnt it be better to wait and see, AMFA establish itself? Wait at least until after the contract at Norhtwest comes due, for comparisons? That way, we, you and I and others will have legitament arguments as to what AMFA really is? Its not fair, to slam TWU for the 60 years of continued representation, and praise AMFA for not crossing the endzone as of yet


Buck I disagree with craft and class, one banner. While I agree you should be paid for your experience and education, I beleive that the lower class deserves the same consideration, I did not learn this from the TWU or AFL-CIO, I learned this years ago, When unions were designed and why, Unions do not discipher who needs them or why, they were designed to represent all fairly, to protect all
I know what your saying about your craft and class, I hear it everyday, I just dont beleive in it for me.
In my years of working, I feel I have been justly paid while the lower class has been paid at a lower scale, It is their power to control what they do, and if they choose to be in the lower class, Im happy for them, we all need to do what we can to be happy
I dont beleive my views will someday destroy unionism, quite the contrary, if we allow unions to only represent the chosen few, then that will be the end of a true union. I am no better than the lower the lower class, just as I am no better than those in my craft and class

 

[Buck]

AMFA is being tested throughout the industry. The only real difference is the philosophies of Craft Unioinism versus Industril Unionism. I for one cannot condone my portion of 60 more years of representation which ignores the mechanic and related. Only when the TWU feels threatened do they step up attempt to provide represention for their bastard step child, the mechanics. We have legitimate arguments, they are right in front of us everyday. The last time we watched a contract at Northwest, I received a 22% pay increase and the TWU took most of that away. It is not fair for the non mechanic and related to ride on the coat tails of the mechanic craft and class. If I felt like the TWU had represented the interest of my profession I would not be slamming them and they have not provided representation in my 20 years, they have only conceded what years of real unions have fought so hard to gain.

If you disagree with the mechanic craft and class under one banner then logically you disagree with all unionist under one banner. Who has ever denied the non-mechanic craft and classes the same consideration? Yes unions are to protect all, but the TWU has failed in this task. They protect non- mechanics at the expense of the mechanics. In your years, have you ever changed? Justly paid, this is not about you. It is about al of the mechanics, including the OSM. Did you have OSMs at TWA? I agree that mechanics are no better human beings than Stock Clerks or Fleet Service, but the have so much more riding on the line. And if you are no better than those in your craft and class, why are the licensed mechanics compensated differently and the OSM so much less?

 

[j7915]

AMFA is being tested throughout the industry. The only real difference is the philosophies of Craft Unioinism versus Industril Unionism. I for one cannot condone my portion of 60 more years of representation which ignores the mechanic and related. Only when the TWU feels threatened do they step up attempt to provide represention for their bastard step child, the mechanics. We have legitimate arguments, they are right in front of us everyday. The last time we watched a contract at Northwest, I received a 22% pay increase and the TWU took most of that away. It is not fair for the non mechanic and related to ride on the coat tails of the mechanic craft and class. If I felt like the TWU had represented the interest of my profession I would not be slamming them and they have not provided representation in my 20 years, they have only conceded what years of real unions have fought so hard to gain.

If you disagree with the mechanic craft and class under one banner then logically you disagree with all unionist under one banner. Who has ever denied the non-mechanic craft and classes the same consideration? Yes unions are to protect all, but the TWU has failed in this task. They protect non- mechanics at the expense of the mechanics. In your years, have you ever changed? Justly paid, this is not about you. It is about al of the mechanics, including the OSM. Did you have OSMs at TWA? I agree that mechanics are no better human beings than Stock Clerks or Fleet Service, but the have so much more riding on the line. And if you are no better than those in your craft and class, why are the licensed mechanics compensated differently and the OSM so much less?

If AMFA is being tested in the industry then they are coming up short, unless you count the out sourcing of overhaul work at NWA and Alaskan as part of a grant scheme to reduce the "class and craft" to line mechs only.

As for your cavalier dismissal of RTW not affecting us, that can and probably will be changed just as soon as the neo-cons see an advantage in it, or have the time to deal with it. The first strike by mechanics affecting several airlines, large or small is all it takes.

As before, have you looked into bumping to a line job yet? That maybe all there is left in the future. Of course AA can then take the cuts from overhaul and slide some over to the line, maybe.

 

[Buck]

And if AMFA is coming up short, the TWU has practiced coming up short since at least 1983. Every contract, every secret letter of agreement they have made with American has belittled the mechanic craft and class and to some extent all of the work groups they fail to represent. Again you look to NWA as a scapegoat for your unions failure to provide representation. AMFA organizers have answered your questions time and time again, yet you always deflect when questioned about the TWU. YOu prode yourself on your beliefs of the farmout situation at other airlines, but you accept the farming out inhouse that the TWU practices at AA. To you it is better to provide a dues base of the masses the has done nothing for the labor movement for the last 20 years. Your vision of AMFA representing only line mechanics is a little fantasy you have developed from the brainwashing you have received from the International. It is my belief that you have no respect for the profession of the mechanic and that you believe that someday the great almighty AFL-CIO will some day smite the the Republican and all will be well. While we wait, men and women of my profession are losing the livlihoods at the behest of the concessionary contracts of the TWU.

Again you miss the whole point about RTW. In it's form today it does not apply to thse represented under the Railway Labor Act. RTW is an issue, but where was the mighty AFL-CIO to smite the evil Republican and or to bolster the union man to vote the correct way? They were no where to be seen. "We call our membership and tell them how to vote" that has not been very sucessful. But I bet if another Immigrant Freedom train were to come through, the AFL-CIO would be right there. It is the issues that do not effect the mechanic craft and class that the AFL-CIO and the TWU are best at. As for your neo cons, (neo conservatives) you are again clueless as to how many reside inside your local. You speak of an all mechanic strike would be the ticket to a national RTW. Not if all unions stood their ground, like ( I hate to admit) the French. This where industrial unionism has failed. They no longer have the right to strike because they are afraid. And I am speaking of enmass.

As for your vision of getting rid of me, to the line, I have looked into it. Is that your answer to providing representation to the mechanic craft and class, to send them where they are repspected? Are you aware of AA negotiating cuts for overhaul to bolster the line? And do you support this, as long as the dues keep flowing? Where you on the AA/TWU coalition to study overhaul work going to an outside vendor such as Singapore in San Antonio?

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFA MAN, I would ask, why, or where was AMFA during the OKLAHOMA RIGHT TO WORK voting took place? All Afl_cio unions campainged eagerly to stop the RTW from passing,
I remember when voting took place, the debates, AMFA supporters or organizers were no where to be found? I remember how upset local AMFA supporters were when this was going on, that they were saying if not for the AFL-CIO unions fighting this, the RTW would have passed by a larger majority.
Since RTW does not apply to AMFA they will not campaing for or against something, I dont recall, was AMFA actually helpingget aid for unemployed mechanics?
AMFAMAN, I will not come here and throw" crap"

You keep referring to AMFA but talk about the actions of supporters. For the record AMFA does no represent AA yet. Just like at UAL, AMFA had no bearing on the concession vote at AA. What twu members state as their reasons for voting one way or the other is just that, twu members. No one at AA is on the payroll of AMFA.

AMFA's National Director is anti-RTW and has stated this many times publicly. If we were AMFA and the Tulsa local wanted to fight RTW, that would be their memberships choice. There is nothing stopping you from having a political action group under AMFA. If a local wants to hirer a lobbyist, you can, it's your money. Local 33 has a polical committee and does much polical work. If you want a paid lobbyist at a National level, become an associate member, and suggest having lobbyist added at the May convention to the constitution and you will have the oppurtunity to vote on it via mail or get the cards signed so we will be AMFA before May.