IAM Fleet Service topic

[freedom]

My friend Freedom
I have no idea if the CIC has any real teeth in any up coming merger. Unless we know the exact details no one knows for sure. All we can do is speculate. The only thing I know for sure is the company wants it to disappear. The question now becomes how bad do they want it to go away. I would have no problem letting them have it if they had offered what I feel should have been a fair T/A. IMO this T/A came up short of what I feel is fair. I'm placing my bet that they will come back to the table if they want it bad enough.

On another note. The passion demonstrated by many of the posters here tells me one thing. When we do get all of our group on the same page we will be a force to be reckoned with.

joe , i'm of the mindset that the company knows our postions and views , they all know the voting numbers ... if they had wanted this to pas badly enough , they would have offered a few more holidays and a better sick time ...


sorry joe , but passion on a message board MUST translate into reality , thus far , most have failed ...

my time for the day is up , but i wish you well brother

and the same goes for all of you . goodbye .

 

[P. REZ]

Freedom,


Here is the stark reality my brothers , on one side we have men like tim nelson who want to channel everything towards a NO vote , they want to GAMBLE with your lives and your careers ….

We on the other hand do NOT want to gamble , we want to take the safe slow route to gain wages …

In any merger , there WILL be pain , nothing in any TA or contract or agreement is going to stop that fact , notice how I’m not sugar coating it for you … any station , any hub could be downsized ….


I think you and Tim both get really passionate but I don't believe it is pure scare tactics on Tim's part. Freedom, in reality some, most or maybe all of what is being said may come true. Hopefully, whatever way this goes you stay on board and we don't all lose in the end.


Respectfully,

P. REZ

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"Brothers , " "Tell me brothers" , "Sorry brothers"

Please quit insulting the true union members on this board. by call us brothers..

1. You don't participate in your monthly union meetings .(probable doesn't even know where it is

2. You stated back 30 or so pages ago that NO way no how would you strike.

so with that information. YOU are a dues paying member that does not participate in true UNIONISM..

 

[JoeDirt]

The company uses number cruncher that try to figure out how to get the wanted response for the least amount. I think these number crunchers miscalculated.

 

[roabilly]

My friend Freedom
I have no idea if the CIC has any real teeth in any up coming merger. Unless we know the exact details no one knows for sure. All we can do is speculate. The only thing I know for sure is the company wants it to disappear. The question now becomes how bad do they want it to go away. I would have no problem letting them have it if they had offered what I feel should have been a fair T/A. IMO this T/A came up short of what I feel is fair. I'm placing my bet that they will come back to the table if they want it bad enough.

On another note. The passion demonstrated by many of the posters here tells me one thing. When we do get all of our group on the same page we will be a force to be reckoned with.

Amen Brother....

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"Then we will all be one sad, half assed poorly paid union trying to get the better wages of yesteryear ..

The company will come back with a slightly better contract than they have now with regular sick days and full holidays , only difference is , that will be several years from now ….."

WE already are a poorly paid union.

the last time I looked at MY contract it said amendable dec 09. So thats what I am waiting for . I'm sorry YOU might not be around

then but then again YOU aren't really worried about those 18 cities so why should I be worried about YOU.

I'm going to start talking the freedom mentality from here on out. Thanks.. It's all about me. PHX sorry you lost your hub and 900

jobs but don't blame me blame UA .....

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"BROTHERS , mergers are an opputnity to GAIN , but if we go about this in a thick manner , we won't gain as much .... do you want a whole pie , or just half of one ....

go with me for the whole pie , vote yes and put our work group in a stronger postion for talks in 2011!!!!"

first question . so far what have you gained from your last merger. Answer : NOTHING.

second question who's pie do you want to steal next time . UA's . YOU HAVEN'T STOLEN US EAST PIE YET .

I see you as a opportunist . YOUR TWU contract was substandard and sadly MY contract (as bad as it is ) is a big jump for you.

ever wonder why that it is . BECAUSE YOU DON'T JUMP at the first piece of SILVER thrown at you.

You would rather merge merge merge so you can just fall under what other union men and women have fought years for.

that's weak. BRO.

 

[roabilly]

O-Man...Dirt...

Keep this thread goin'... It's up tahh ya'll !

Roa is down fer tha count...too many doubles!

 

[orioleman]

freedom ,
"Now in a last desperate attempt before the vote next week your going to bring out “DANGERS OF MERGER “ .. well that position is just about as weak as the COC argument .. and do you know why ? because we’re all IN a merger already , and it’s fact and evident to see how long and shitty this thing goes …"

How many mergers HAVE YOU been through. Me going on 4 . so I think I have a little seniority on that "BRO"

lets see . since you weren't around then. here's a highlight for ya.

HUBS GONE.
I'll do it in order so please try and keep up (if your not sure of the city codes check with training they'll help ya)
1. DAY
2. SYR
3. CLE (mini hub)
4. BWI
5. IND (mini hub)
6. PIT
number of former class 1 cities affected by mergers,
BUF, ROC , ATL , GSO, ORF, LGA, EWR, ALL OF THE FL markets. lose of the shuttle.

Now who is scaring who. just trying to educate you folks on what happens after contracts get signed .

 

[b737200]

Just think of it like this.......if the t/a goes through and then we merge with UA,
layoffs begin, who's the lowest senority in the system? Mostly the westies, Parker sell's them
out again.
I also hear from a friend in PHX they are voting on the property, he says the local lodge president
had been offered a job by cheap suites if she made it happen. Talk about
pulling out all of the bag of tricks....................................

 

[Tim Nelson]

ohhh scare tactics coming from the man who can predict the future !!! oh wait no , we lost the COC …

Tim , nothing you can say scares my people on the west here …
Stop buying the B/S being fed to you by the other side ….

If you want my opinion , you no people went about this the wrong way , that COC , I can beat you over the head with it 5 ways to yesterday … you lost it , and so it’s an open sore in your no position …. In fact it’s not only weak but it’s desperate for you in the NO to try and use it to sway the vote …. Realistically speaking you should have focused on the outsourcing of the field stations and tried to use that as a wedge …. but too bad for you , you didn’t! haha you fell into the circular change of control argument that I doubt many of you even buy yourselves .. !!! so sad , too late !

Now in a last desperate attempt before the vote next week your going to bring out “DANGERS OF MERGER “ .. well that position is just about as weak as the COC argument .. and do you know why ? because we’re all IN a merger already , and it’s fact and evident to see how long and shitty this thing goes …

Given all the options , your people will overwhelmingly vote yes on this ….

Freedom, your 'my people' only speaks for PHX, and possible a few other west stations. You say my people are voting overwhelmingly yes? I can tell you this, Canale knows what I know and that is why he got PHX to vote at the airport and restricted the other hubs from breakroom voting. He is doing all he can to squeek in a yes vote for United airlines.

Your COC talk is nonsensical and not backed up with fact or resources. Your apology for the CIC or COC being removed from the contract is that 'Hemenway just wants to clean it up'. This is nonsensical thinking. It would be better if you said, "The CIC has merit and leverage but its end is unclear'.
I'm unclear where I was using scare tactics. The facts are that there will be a United Airline merger, The CIC is alive and well, The 22 west station scope is worthy to keep, even though PHX wants to once again throw them all under a bus. Nothing is new Freedom, PHX hasn't changed. Once again, it will be PHL, CLT and the east that will stand up for the west and its industry leading scope.

Sorry if losing everything is scary but by voting yes, the west is toast and the class 2's will not have anything in their hand when they find out that United ramp stations are limited to about a couple dozen stations and that's it. I'll check tomorrow but I think a station needed 40 flights a day to be under the United ramp agreement. JAX, PBI, CMH, PVD, BDL, RDU, DFW, MSY, will all be handed over to the IAM"s other craft, PCE.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman,

 

[perserverance]

DB,
If my memory serves me right we didn't have a vote in '89 but rather a card signing campaign to see if we wanted to keep the teamsters in. I believe, they were only at 4 USAir stns. Again...I was Piedmont but I think I'm right. However, the teamsters did not get enough of the employees to sign a card so they were tossed. I believe they needed 35% but I could be wrong on that percentage. And no I did not sign a card for the teamsters.

COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR

GiantFan you are wrong and bob dylan is right. You may not recall but the Teamsters did not
get the 50%+1 to retain representation. PHL,BUF,PIT,and BOS assured them the 35% needed
to even get an election. US tried to just have the union removed with empty promises that you
along with many others bought, hook-line-and sinker.

Now back to this Las news and Phx possibility of losing fleet jobs..........absolutely CAN happen.
Them being the junior group basically has them vulnerable to bumping layoffs and PT status. We were
told by our NC not to worry that the UA deal was on the horizon and RC was well aware of this
during negotiations. Randy told all his boys to hush but certain people just like to talk when asked,
why ? We need to keep the CIC language and PT/FT ratio in......at least until we find protection along
with other benifits.
Freedom and others we may not be lawyers but its' common sense if they(company) want it then its'
worth something. It reminds me of the scene from the movie ''The Jerk'' when hes' outside hitch-
hiking and gets a ride. He's all happy just to get the ride but gets told its' only to the end of the fence.
So what may look good in short term to you may not be as long of a ride as you think it is.....

Thanks

 

[pjirish317]

DF,

You still did not answer my question. Why would we want to be stuck with a concessionary BK agreement untill at least 2013 or 14? If/when this UA seal gets done Fleet Srevice will have some imperssive numbers for the "fight" that you so fondly speak of. Isn't UA's CBA ammendable ON THE SAME DATE AS OURS? Wouldn't that be our "TIME TO FIGHT"? Stop saying Fleet Service will "Chapter 7" this company. Heck Dougweisers pay for 2007 alone was more than our portion of the profit sharing pool. Which by the way, canoli handed back to the company on a silver platter along with the CIC. So in your unbiased opinion, speak as if you actually had to work for your paychek, if/when this merger happens, which would be the better fight, with a BK contract in 2011, all the while our UA brothers and sisters are in section six since 2010, or along with them in section six for all, traditional bargaining, with the threat of a strike, what kind of leverage will we have then. So again why 2011 alone, well transition bargaining without even the remote possibility of a strike, or in 2010 with UA and traditional bargaining, and the possibility to strike because it would be traditional bargaining. And again answer as if you actually work for your paycheck please.

 

[freedom]

Freedom, your 'my people' only speaks for PHX, and possible a few other west stations. You say my people are voting overwhelmingly yes? I can tell you this, Canale knows what I know and that is why he got PHX to vote at the airport and restricted the other hubs from breakroom voting. He is doing all he can to squeek in a yes vote for United airlines.

Your COC talk is nonsensical and not backed up with fact or resources. Your apology for the CIC or COC being removed from the contract is that 'Hemenway just wants to clean it up'. This is nonsensical thinking. It would be better if you said, "The CIC has merit and leverage but its end is unclear'.
I'm unclear where I was using scare tactics. The facts are that there will be a United Airline merger, The CIC is alive and well, The 22 west station scope is worthy to keep, even though PHX wants to once again throw them all under a bus. Nothing is new Freedom, PHX hasn't changed. Once again, it will be PHL, CLT and the east that will stand up for the west and its industry leading scope.

Sorry if losing everything is scary but by voting yes, the west is toast and the class 2's will not have anything in their hand when they find out that United ramp stations are limited to about a couple dozen stations and that's it. I'll check tomorrow but I think a station needed 40 flights a day to be under the United ramp agreement. JAX, PBI, CMH, PVD, BDL, RDU, DFW, MSY, will all be handed over to the IAM"s other craft, PCE.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman,

Oh lucky me! I was able to pick up a signal …


First you say my COC talks is nonsensical …. Uh , did you miss that long post a few pages back where I used FACT to explain my position … I should add , it’s one of the few times I do that …. Furthermore you state I give it no weight what’s so ever .. If you had read my post , you would see that I did concede that the COC could in my view only be useful if someone tried to buy our assets …


As for keeping the scope for the 22 west stations … like I said before , and as many of you know , mergers are brutal , anything can happen , that scope won’t be nearly as strong as it would have been without a merger … besides if this TA passes the west will either request a vote to go into your contract or just be brought into it … either way the stations are gone .. The only question for our poor field station brothers and sisters is do they want to enjoy a few years of decent wages or go directly under the bus .. I hear the word from them is they would rather enjoy a few years of decent wages ….

You talk about PHL and CLT standing up …. I think you’ve been hanging out with the topped out guys for too long tim …This election is going to be close , we need EVERY yes voter to come out …. From how I’m figuring it , CLT and PHL will average out to half yes half no …. the class 2 field stations will go all in for this …. The west stations will probably average out to a yes vote , which way LAS goes , who can say …. If PHX can come out in enough numbers , we should be able to win it .

Whatever uniteds ramp agreements are need be of no concern to us … because we will be under our OWN TA agreement …

United is united , good for them …. either way it’s we who will be running this show come 2011 …. Now we can either prepare for it like diligent workers or we can trash around like a drowning person ….

You can go on and on about alternate possibilities and I can go on and on about possible counters to your possible solutions …. The question we should all ask , is which path provides actual benefits for our workers ? You offer what I feel are tantamount to empty promises … if your wrong , then everyone will pay the price … I think that’s too risky a course of action .

 

[cltrat]

I thin k 50/50 at Phl and CLT is unrealistic actually closer to fantasy