IAM Fleet Service topic

[Jimmy Neutron]

And what if you vote no? What then? Bankruptcy? Chapter 7? Your company can not stand alone.
Mergers are not pretty and no matter how you slice it there will be reduced capacity and hub closures. The idea is to protect as many jobs as you can by positioning your company for the future. Randy Canale could have held on to the CIC and west scope and asked for contract enhancements but your company never would have signed it due to merger implications. All of you now know a merger will take place and you must determine if you want to be a part of United airlines and position for traditonal bargaining in 2011 with the biggest airline in the world. There will be job loss in such an event but many jobs will be preserved. Or you could reject the contract, keep the CIC and protect the west scope, and risk 8,000 jobs since your company may be without a merger partner. Will you take that responsibility?

Listen, it's bad enough that we always hear the Randy Canale crap------this is the best we can do------We vote down this POS TA in Sept., not just because of the CIC, but because the TA was truly a POS PERIOD.

We sit here 3 years after our contract was shoved up our a*#es by The BK judge to supposedly save the company from total collapse, only to watch 3 months later the same judge hand US execs $6 million in bonus money so they can retain good management......What a croc of sh*t.......

So we get handed a TA that does not even creep close to giving us back 1/4 of what we lost and actually takes more away from us....


Give me a break......

Now Canale has the balls to even bring back a TA that takes even more from us while our wonderful management gets 200 % bonuses......

Talk about a slap in the face..

Maybe Canale thinks we are all retarded, but Ive got news for you....We are far from it.

We are not asking for the world here, just our fair shake, like everyone else gets.

It's too bad that the election to boot his lame a** from our ranks wasn't yesterday, because we have had enough of the BS

 

[cltrat]

this is it in a nut shell the company wants something(western scope COC) so far they have not showed us they want it enough to give us an industry fair contract .as far as RC goes I have a pretty big problem with the thought that a UA board member has our best interests in mind any rational person should feel the same. He has proven time and time again how under handed he is

ask yourself this would you buy a used car from this man? (RC) didnt think so

 

[roabilly]

Farce...

They'd have to pay me six figures.... to put with tha stuff yer gittin' thrown at yahh !

Me 'n yew...still buddies?

 

[Jester]

The facts are this:
1. The company attorneys didn't mind leaving the CIC in the contract when doing the AMerica West merger. And an arbitrator agreed with the company attorneys.
2. The company attorneys told Hemenway to remove the CIC this time.
3. A merger is being discussed and may be announced as soon as May 9th.

1. The IAM did not deal in good faith with Management and played stupid when Parker was working a deal for East. No mention of a CIC issue from Canale and confirmed through the estoppel agreements, and I am certain corporate attornies did not see the CIC as a threat either. Suddenly, after the deal is done, the IAM does the, "oh, by the way" routine. The company "didn't mind" because no one in their right mind would have thought CIC to be an issue.

2. I guess the company learned their lesson and did not wish to re-visit the expensive and time consuming matter again only to have the IAM lose again. P Rez is absolutely correct as the CIC is a leaky bucket of exceptions by which any deal can be made to avoid the CIC issue.

3. You said that a merger announcement was coming last Friday.

So Recounts Jester.

 

[wiser bud]

If US Fleet votes this down...do any of you think it is going to hold up a merger between these two airlines???

C'mon now.

Do any of you think the CIC is going to get us $25 an hour? The only thing the CIC is going to get us is more time fighting the co. in court and most likely losing and keeping our BK wages.

I firmly believe what DF says is right and have been here a long time to say that our colorful history is on his side. Vote YES!

 

[JoeDirt]

Jester
Your argument is irrelevant. The CIC is a issue now and the company wants it gone. Are you finally willing to admit this indisputable fact.

 

[JoeDirt]

1. The IAM did not deal in good faith with Management and played stupid when Parker was working a deal for East. No mention of a CIC issue from Canale and confirmed through the estoppel agreements, and I am certain corporate attornies did not see the CIC as a threat either. Suddenly, after the deal is done, the IAM does the, "oh, by the way" routine. The company "didn't mind" because on one in their right mind would have thought CIC to be an issue.

2. I guess the company learned their lesson and did not wish to re-visit the expensive and time consuming matter again only to have the IAM lose again. P Rez is absolutely correct as the CIC is a leaky bucket of exceptions by which any deal can be made to avoid the CIC issue.

3. You said that a merger announcement was coming last Friday.

So Recounts Jester.

If I recall correctly Mr. Nelson said the announcement would be coming the 3rd week of May.

 

[JoeDirt]

Mr. Jester
Why is it that you post and then run. I am always up for a good debate.

 

[Jester]

Jester
Your argument is irrelevant. The CIC is a issue now and the company wants it gone. Are you finally willing to admit this indisputable fact.

Joe,

You remind me of the guy in a police stand-off while holding a gun to his head and screaming, "Stop or I'll shoot myself!"

A merger is neccessary for US Airways to stay viable, if the CIC is the issue that kills the deal, then it will be those against this T.A. that will end up shooting themselves in the process. You are looking for leverage to get a better deal, but usually that is done through using something or someone else to push an issue. Typically, it is not by using yourself as your own hostage.

So Negotiates Jester.

 

[orioleman]

Joe, I respect what you're saying I really do. I've had two knee surgeries and one shoulder surgery to prove my time. However, if you are going to throw up statistics like that to be fair and all encompassing you need to include the numbers from the Menzies, and the Delta Globals and all the rest that do "our" job for a lot less money. The company has proven that we are replaceable and it will continue to keep going on....our "services" are a vital link but not our easily replaced "people".

wiser good point however are Menzies and Delta Global UNIONIZED. The get paid what they get because they don't have anyone fighting

to improve the wages and benefits. Oh wait either do we. Sorry. next point . Your point the company says we are replaceable and will

continue to so. OF course they will IF YOU allow them to keep ripping out our scope language. ALL THE MORE REASON FOR A BIG FAT

NO.. Glad to see your starting to see the reasons for voting NO>

 

[freedom]

First , while these two companies MAY merge , we are not sure that they will , UA may pull out at the last minute like they did with CO ..

Second … even if the two companies decide they want to merge the government may not allow it , isn’t that what happened last time ?



Third , merger or not ,listen to me , sign this now and we will be ready to bargain in 2011 …

Q. what’s the first thing that happens when two companies merge

A. a huge freaking mess that puts everything else on the back burner ….

Do you my fellow rampers really think any new company is going to focus on the fleet service workers when they will have more important issues to handle ? look , your contract is up in 2009 , December 31st 2009 I might add , your telling me that your all so impatient that you can’t wait anther year and a half after that time ? when you would be in a STRONGER barging position ?

Right now the East top out is 17 something eh ? Say we keep that , do you know how much more of an uphill fight your going to have on your hands to go past the mark we are at now ???

Tell me brothers ,do you think it will be easier to bargain upwards from 17 or 19 to get that higher wage your all dreaming about ? (the company will come back time and time again and say “look we’re taking these 17 dollar guys and we’re putting them to 20 ! look at this raise we’re giving them , what more do you want geez! )

Brothers , do you think it will be harder to get more when your class two cities will act as an anchor to drag you down ?

Furthermore , you won’t SEE a section six for at least a few years after a merger , why ? Because the government is of course going to give the airline some time after the merger to sort it’s self out … besides our company will do what they’ve done before , sit down at the table and offer a hard fought contract ….(like what we have now , and HOW long has it taken us to get here )

IF you don’t pull yourselves up to the higher pay scale than what your going to do is become the west …… If we in the west had the pay scale you have now , I think things would have been different today .


Sorry brothers , but while you see rainbows and pots of gold everywhere I see stark reality ,why just look at the mess we’ve been in for awhile now …. Open your eyes , by signing this we give our company time to sort itself out AND we give our own union time to do the same ....

 

[orioleman]

How do we make sure every station has this same opportunity as PHX.
Does each city have to fight for this, why is it not just offered.
All cities need to get their 411

call your local agc and tell him that You LOVE This contract and more people would vote yes if we could have it

at work . there very gullable they will believe you . H*LL the believe everything Uncle AL tells them. "this is the final offer"

OOOOOOOOOh wait . this is the "final final offer with a big turd on top" .

 

[Tim Nelson]

If I recall correctly Mr. Nelson said the announcement would be coming the 3rd week of May.

You are correct, USAPilot320 said friday, but I posted a response that my understanding is that the deal will be announced by the 3rd week of May. I posted this since April 7th after receiving 'valid' information on April 7th, before ANY merger chatter. I took much heat as some got mislead with the Continental sidebar. The truth of the matter is that the United/US AIRWAYS deal has been a long time coming over the past 6 months. Things were heated up in late march and I was told 'concluded in principle' the first week of April. Specifically, Parker will be the CEO. I know the media is reporting that the stock deal isn't settled and that they are 'fussing' over the leadership but I was told Parker is the man and a deal will be announced by the 3rd week of May.

Also, the CIC is back to the forefront. I'll let my opinion on the COC stand on the shoulders of Hemenway's actions. As District force admits, the COC and west scope is powerful. I disagree that rampers can shut down a merger. Especially when pilots and flight attendants haven't even been talking. But then again, they don't have the COC.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[JoeDirt]

Jester
I agree a merger is necessary and have no problem with the idea of a merger. I have no problem giving up the CIC for the right price. The company is the one with the "gun" to their head. They are the hostage. They had a chance to negotiate and instead are holloring "Go ahead, pull the trigger I dare you.

 

[freedom]

call your local agc and tell him that You LOVE This contract and more people would vote yes if we could have it

at work . there very gullable they will believe you . H*LL the believe everything Uncle AL tells them. "this is the final offer"

OOOOOOOOOh wait . this is the "final final offer with a big turd on top" .

Bro , if we’re about to merge with united , then this IS the final offer , at least for quite sometime .. and as far as YOU are concerned , it will be the last offer … we in the west will rail against this union if they don’t put us into your contract if the TA fails ….

Then we will all be one sad, half assed poorly paid union trying to get the better wages of yesteryear ..

The company will come back with a slightly better contract than they have now with regular sick days and full holidays , only difference is , that will be several years from now …..

Do you not understand the kind of leverage the company will have when bargaing with our union at the table , we won’t be ABLE to trigger section six on a newly merged company , at least not for two years . the government is going to give our company time to get it’s #### together bro …



Given the choice , would you rather bargin upwards from the proposed TA , or your shitty BK contract ???


you can’t wait a year and a half to have stronger leverage ????