IAM Fleet Service topic

[Jester]

Jester please . I thought your were smarter than that. You know why there are no Easties in phx the were contracted out. When you vote yes. You open the west up to everyone . Its called a systemwide transfer.

which means You can go where ever your SENIORITY will allow you. As far as having more time that was good for a laugh . my rain gear has more time then you do. the BWI thing Us took that away many moons

ago. besides 24 yrs wouldn't get you FT in Bwi.. try again.

Now, now, O-man, let's not resort to intellectual dishonesty here.

First, are you now suggesting the T.A. will pass contrary to yours and various other opinions on this board?
Second, are you still holding to the pipe dream that CIC is still valid and worth something in an United deal?

Let's go through the various outcomes:

Yes-Yes: You can transfer to PHX (as BWI is sandwiched between PHL and IAD it will be the next IGM), enjoy the 125 degree ramp side temperatures as you will need the extra pay from the CIC to afford living here not to mention moving across country (assuming you can afford to wait several years for a favorable ruling on the CIC).

Yes-No: You can transfer to PHX (as BWI is sandwiched between PHL and IAD will be the next IGM), enjoy the 125 degree ramp side temperatures, but you will need to wait to save enough money to afford your move across country for no more extra pay, but hey, PHX temperatures won't change much in the several years you have to move due to your wise support of the T.A.

No-Yes: You cannot transfer to PHX even as BWI pulls down to RJ City with a Mesa ramp, and since you rejected the T.A. your 60-Day timer starts running after the United deal is announced, although you can afford to move somewhere closer to home (again assuming you can afford to wait several years for a favorable ruling on the CIC) after you do a fire sale on your home because 60 days really isn't much time, especially during the mortgage meltdown.

No-No: You cannot transfer to PHX and Do Not Pass Go, as your CIC is worthless, and by the way, BWI is still RJ City with an United deal, so start packing. (How many minimum mainline flights a week with the current IAM contract? 56?)

My guess is that you are thinking "No-Yes", but in all scenarios the United deal is on, and frankly, that does not bode well for BWI. If it is "No" to T.A. then you lose an what you could have saved (hear that 60-Day timer ticking?) and you still cannot transfer to PHX. This T.A. is not holding up any United deal either way... what's that ticking sound?

My point being is that your threat to move to PHX is hollow, and given the under all scenarios presented it makes little sense or it is even impossible. Your best option would be to vote "Yes" on the T.A. as it allows you to transfer to those "juniority" West stations and puts money in your pocket now. However, if you do manage like a modern pioneer to cross the desert to end up in Arizona, dirty, penniless and disenfranchised, I know plenty of West rampers with a couch in their home to rent and tequila in the liquor cabinet.

So Figures Jester.

 

[cltrat]

something I find funny,really laughable if it didn't affect all of us.is how many ramp rats(and I'm a rat too) consider themselves to be experts in labor law (rest assured I'm not one of those) These so called experts (you know who you are) will swear to you that CIC is worthless.Do they really know this? of course not .They will swear to you that because it was ruled against before.
Yes it was under one set of circumstance this is a whole different situation Now on the other hand Do I know it is worth anything? no I don't but unlike the labor law experts I understand the companies lawyers (who just a guess on my part are real labor law experts) want it out

Despite myself and others asking this several times no Yes voter will answer

Why are they even talking to us at all? do you think it's because they like us? LOL

and don't give me that under one group crap either DP has publicly stated before he would operate east/west fleet separate for as long as he wanted too.


and for you 25 and 30 year guys who support this POS should it pass and a US/UA merger happen
How are you going to like being in the bin with that UA guy who has less time but makes more than you ,has more vacation and a better double time deal than you?
at least many of you PHX guys won't have to worry about it . you won't have a job but hey you both can always proudly say I voted for it

 

[P. REZ]

cltrat,

The parties agree a “change in controlâ€￾, as that term is defined in the
Labor Agreement, requires a specific set of elements, including (1) the sale of all
or substantially all the assets or the common stock of the Company (2) in a single
transaction (or in multi-step related transactions) (3) to a single purchaser (or a
group of purchasers acting in concert). The Union says these conditions have
been fully satisfied, inasmuch as all or substantially all common stock of the US
Airways Group has been sold to a group of investors acting in concert. As such,
the critical elements set forth in the CIC provisions of the Labor Agreements have
occurred and this Board should conclude, as a result, that the transaction at issue
constituted a change in control.

I've tried to explain this before but I'll try again. Bloch, ruled that US Airways stock was wiped out in bankruptcy, so (1) was not satisfied. Bloch went on to say that each investor acted alone in this deal. They all tried to get their piece of pie so to speak.

I believe that the CIC language as written cannot win. If we were to merge with UA or someone else, the different investors will all, as stand alone investors, try to work their deals again. For instance, Airbus will pitch their sale of planes to us and Rolls royce engines will act independently of Airbus and make their pitch for the sale of engines and so on and so on. Look at (3) above and you will see "acting in concert."

cltrat, I am no expert but this is what I believe that makes CIC worthless. I may be wrong, but in the end I won't regret my yes decision. I may however understand that my yes decision was wrong but I won't regret it because I made it with all the facts and possibilities at my disposal. If this TA gets shot down I will be ready to take the next step with the naysayers.


Respectfully,

P. REZ

 

[The Bagfather]

It is obvious to me that the conditions as to how one
votes are very important to the outcome of the vote.
If various stations do not have equal access to vote
IMO they are being dissenfranchized to a degree
which I believe should be challenged.

It's obvious to me also that both Canale and the LCC
are on the same side of this issue. As it stands right
now regardless of the outcome this will not be a fair
election. The last election had it's share of
inequities but was not challenged do to it's outcome.

One way or another this needs to be addressed, there
is still plenty of time for a pre-election remedy.

Thanks BF

 

[NevadaHP]

district force,

How come Fleet is the only one hanging this merger up? why not the flight attendants or pilots neither one of them have a single contract? Second you contradict what canale says, you stated that they wouldnt put the west under the east agreement, whos telling the truth? And do you know who they are going to appoint into rich delaneys spot? And are the candidates from randy canales ticket also having to step down from their current jobs to run for a different position?

 

[perserverance]

Las Vegas employees being told they may cease being a hub........

article

Thanks

 

[cltrat]

P rez thank you for your response while explains why CIC was ruled against in the first place I am not so sure that in the case of of a stock exchange merger that is the case not saying it isnt again I do not know but again in your opinion why are they talking with us to start with?

nevada myself I'm not sure fleet will hold this up yes or no now the pilots that may be another story already they are exchanging shots at one another

 

[sidelined70]

I have a question, I'm currently on furlough from the 2005 mass closing of east cities. If I was to put in transfer paperwork for a city and I got it and say this POS T/A agreement passes, would I be given an adjusted date since I transferred in before ratification?

Would anyone have an answer? I cant get any union leaders to answer my calls.

Also do we still use PE-66's to put in for transfers?


Thanks

 

[Knobeast]

perserverance, I work in LAS and we are told that where not a HUB! so we don't get hub pay like phl or clt and those flight reductions don't happen till AUG...............

 

[Black Magic]

I apologize,

Hey brothers and sisters across the system, I just found out today that we will have our TA vote in our breakroom. Even though I am a yes for reasons stated earlier it disturbs me that PHX is being catered to in this manner. I believe each and every station should have the same right to cast a vote May 8th in their breakrooms.

Respectfully,

P. REZ

Talk about corrupt!!! East coast get fired up about this! IAM knows that at least half or more of the phx ramp either doesn't know or even care about this TA. They are desperately trying to get all the yes votes as possible. If they are going to do that in PHX it should only be fair to do that in the other cities. Keep it honest.

 

[isthisok]

perserverance, I work in LAS and we are told that where not a HUB! so we don't get hub pay like phl or clt and those flight reductions don't happen till AUG...............

There is no such thing as HUB Pay in the East. PHL and CLT get the same pay as the rest of the Class 1 East stations.

 

[700UW]

What about the pay in the class II stations?

It is not the same as Class I.

 

[isthisok]

Talk about corrupt!!! East coast get fired up about this! IAM knows that at least half or more of the phx ramp either doesn't know or even care about this TA. They are desperately trying to get all the yes votes as possible. If they are going to do that in PHX it should only be fair to do that in the other cities. Keep it honest.

There is nothing honest about these crooks. Never will be. We should be suing them for misrepresentation, and at the least request the government investigate them.

"Bend over and shove it deep because we are all a bunch of (Canale) sheep"

 

[JoeDirt]

cltrat,

The parties agree a “change in controlâ€￾, as that term is defined in the
Labor Agreement, requires a specific set of elements, including (1) the sale of all
or substantially all the assets or the common stock of the Company (2) in a single
transaction (or in multi-step related transactions) (3) to a single purchaser (or a
group of purchasers acting in concert). The Union says these conditions have
been fully satisfied, inasmuch as all or substantially all common stock of the US
Airways Group has been sold to a group of investors acting in concert. As such,
the critical elements set forth in the CIC provisions of the Labor Agreements have
occurred and this Board should conclude, as a result, that the transaction at issue
constituted a change in control.

I've tried to explain this before but I'll try again. Bloch, ruled that US Airways stock was wiped out in bankruptcy, so (1) was not satisfied. Bloch went on to say that each investor acted alone in this deal. They all tried to get their piece of pie so to speak.

I believe that the CIC language as written cannot win. If we were to merge with UA or someone else, the different investors will all, as stand alone investors, try to work their deals again. For instance, Airbus will pitch their sale of planes to us and Rolls royce engines will act independently of Airbus and make their pitch for the sale of engines and so on and so on. Look at (3) above and you will see "acting in concert."

cltrat, I am no expert but this is what I believe that makes CIC worthless. I may be wrong, but in the end I won't regret my yes decision. I may however understand that my yes decision was wrong but I won't regret it because I made it with all the facts and possibilities at my disposal. If this TA gets shot down I will be ready to take the next step with the naysayers.


Respectfully,

P. REZ

P. REZ
You might be a yes voter but I think all can agree that your opinion is very respected by us no voters. I am also no expert
in labor law and I have a opinion about the CIC.

Is the CIC enforcable? I have no idea. Under the right circumstances I believe it has some teeth.

Will it come into play? Again I have no idea. There is a possibility it will come into play if it is left in place.

Does it have any value? Yes. It has a perceived value so therefore it has a real value.

The way I see this thing playing out is 4 different scenarios.

1. We turn this offer down and the Co. and the IAM go back to the table and try to hammer out an agreement acceptable to the membership.

2. We turn this down and the Co. and the IAM decide to offer our current contract to the west for a vote. Then the decision will be fully in the people in the west.

3. We turn this down and things remain status quo and we continue to operate as we are now.

4. The T/A gets voted in and we will never know what else might have happened.

IMO #1 and #4 are the only ones that have any real chance of happening. The reason being is the company came to us for a reason. They

wanted/needed something from us. I have heard some say its the CIC. Others say its the scope protection in the west contract. Some think

its a extention of our contract. I think its all three. The only way for the company to get whatever it is they want is for either scenario #1 or #4

to take place.

 

[robbedagain]

I have a question, I'm currently on furlough from the 2005 mass closing of east cities. If I was to put in transfer paperwork for a city and I got it and say this POS T/A agreement passes, would I be given an adjusted date since I transferred in before ratification?

Would anyone have an answer? I cant get any union leaders to answer my calls.

Also do we still use PE-66's to put in for transfers? You would have your date from when you were hired
and yes the PE-66 is the one to use. however there is a different fax number now.


Thanks