IAM Fleet Service topic

[NETOSETONE]

I for one am far from trying to sway the hopelessly too far gone braindead here from changing their minds ( you know who you are)......,GIANTSFAN keep informing the masses that peruse this board but never post.....those are the ones that need to hear the accurate information and none of the scare tactics, speculations, and guesses being thrown around .....

Fact.....the can't miss cic lost .....no back pay, no front pay, no pay at all.....( east guys wrong! )( wonder what else they may be wrong about???)
fact......the old US Airways is dead...along with the pre bk contracts.....gone forever....
fact......working currently with a bk contract that is significantly improved upon with this TA ( an 8.5% top end east pay increase during a recession from a company losing money.....do the math people) for all and much much more for others. We're starting over, new company, improvements can only come a step at a time
fact......brings everyone to pay parity.....and solidarity.......reject it and solidarity is history
fact......after almost 3 years there has not come a better deal from this company while it was making money.......( so, now you think a better deal is coming from a company losing money?????)

And anybody who hasn't seen the delaying tactics of this company over the last nearly 3 years has lost all credibility with me..... oh, and if you are braindead you also have no credibility

Mir;

There is no need to call some of your brothers or sisters braindead. W all have different issues in our lives. Respect that! <_<

 

[lithuanian]

If at all possible(with the nod of the moderators0) may I add something that resulted in Phoenix today.

We heard from representatives both old IAM and new IAM and got some insite.

And, along with new information outside the NEW DIRECTION TEAM some other facts or fiction came out to help determine and educated vote May 8th.

1. West is 100% for this contract because they need the compensation,TODAY( 3 years later). AND the contract suposibly MIRROR"S the exact contract of UNITED which is up for renewal 2009. (West can live with this 100%

The NEW DIRECTION TEAM HAS a different agenda (They will control the results of the merger with the (CIC) language intact which will enable fleet workers to reap greater rewards other than an across the board mirror' contract.

3. Both OLD IAM and NEW IAM are not going to disclose any help to their members until after the results. They have told us they will not influence the vote.

4. The voter' are on their own! And they will live with the decision.

Can we get a real discussion going.

 

[orioleman]

Mr AGC,
"Fact.....the can't miss cic lost .....no back pay, no front pay, no pay at all.....( east guys wrong! )( wonder what else they may be wrong about???)"

maybe if the IAM knew how to present a proper argument they would have a chance. (Block even said it should have been presented differently)


"fact......the old US Airways is dead...along with the pre bk contracts.....gone forever"

Gee Mr AGC and I think even 700uw would back me on this.. Our contracts are amendable . meaning the original POS contract is only amendable which means its your for life.

"fact......working currently with a bk contract that is significantly improved upon with this TA ( an 8.5% top end east pay increase during a recession from a company losing money.....do the math people) for all and much much more for others"

how about 1.3 % raise for the year 9 guy.. Typical AGC spin. only talk about the high number but bury the low number.. shouldn't all members be treated equally when neg.

"fact......after almost 3 years there has not come a better deal from this company while it was making money.......( so, now you think a better deal is coming from a company losing money?????)

And anybody who hasn't seen the delaying tactics of this company over the last nearly 3 years has lost all credibility with me..... oh, and if you are braindead you also have no credibility

lets be honest here . the company wouldn't talk to you bozos for 2 1/2 yrs Randy couldn't get a christmas card from DP. and now 4 sits in 6 months . come on man you can do better than

that . One reason the company looks over the IAM is because You have no bite. It's a company union run by a UA BOD . plain an simple and Uncle AL knows that . when your in bed with

someone for so long your obligated to them Just like you agcs have 120,000.00 reasons to let Randy make up your mind for ya and tell you what to do.

 

[WTF_CLT]

Mir;

There is no need to call some of your brothers or sisters braindead. W all have different issues in our lives. Respect that! <_<

Resorting to name calling is a true sign of a desperate "brain dead "individual who has no true interest in solidarity. He only has a desire to have his position dominate and reverts to an infantile state when opposed

 

[Tim Nelson]

I for one am far from trying to sway the hopelessly too far gone braindead here from changing their minds ( you know who you are)......,GIANTSFAN keep informing the masses that peruse this board but never post.....those are the ones that need to hear the accurate information and none of the scare tactics, speculations, and guesses being thrown around .....

Fact.....the can't miss cic lost .....no back pay, no front pay, no pay at all.....( east guys wrong! )( wonder what else they may be wrong about???)
fact......the old US Airways is dead...along with the pre bk contracts.....gone forever....
fact......working currently with a bk contract that is significantly improved upon with this TA ( an 8.5% top end east pay increase during a recession from a company losing money.....do the math people) for all and much much more for others. We're starting over, new company, improvements can only come a step at a time
fact......brings everyone to pay parity.....and solidarity.......reject it and solidarity is history
fact......after almost 3 years there has not come a better deal from this company while it was making money.......( so, now you think a better deal is coming from a company losing money?????)

And anybody who hasn't seen the delaying tactics of this company over the last nearly 3 years has lost all credibility with me..... oh, and if you are braindead you also have no credibility

Dissenting opinion from Randy Canale, in this case, is indeed warrented. I'd ask you to pursue further inquiry before you rush to judgement about those who disagree with you as being 'braindead'.
Those voting no have come to their conclusion sensibly and with the principles of logic based on what they know and anticipate. Certainly, a merger is upon us and it is rather nonsensical to put our stamp on this 'quick fix merger solution' by agreeing to a tentative agreement that is filled with a bag of pawns and riddled with open-endedness.

Your facts are 'skewed' also. Putting the weight of your argument against the CIC based on a decision by an arbitrator that was based on stock cancelation and a series of investments that were not acting in concert, has absoultely nothing to do with this current predicament. Moreso, the CIC is 'triggered' by the transaction of 'common stock'. Notice in the USA Today, today, said that this deal without question is going to be a stock deal.

Certainly your argument that the CIC is dead has not persuaded the company attorneys to tell Hemenway that the CIC must be removed for this merger. Remember, those are the same attorneys that told Hemenway not to bother taking the CIC out in regards to the America West agreement.

THe CIC is everything at this point, it offers incredible leverage and advantage in this particular merger. To take it out for a contract that has the worse vacation policy, worse sick policy, worse holiday policy and other 'first worst thing', does serious harm to justice. Don't even get me started about the part-time ratio cap being removed for the west, 22 stations under the witches hour glass, further restrictions on seniority on Full timers for part time recall.

If you think those articles are typical articles related to transition agreements then you are fooling yourself. Those articles were opened up because there are going to be 'painful' layoffs and job loss in a merger. PHX and LAS are gone, PHL may have problems, and CLT may be 'severely' reduced for IAD, based on the media articles.

This merger is every reason why workers should be 'deeply' concerned about voting yes. For perhaps the first time in history, we finally have the foreknowledge of getting screwed in a merger and have the opportunity to keep things open instead of signing our signatures on to the oncoming job losses and destruction of future wage and benefit.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[JoeDirt]

Lets do a little math. Then you can tell me if you do not think we earn every penny.

Lets say for an average a Fleet Service agent handles 10,000 lbs a day. I know that can be a little on the low side but we will use it as an average.

Lets say on average a Fleet Service agent works 250 shifts a year.

10,000 x 250 = 2,500,000 lbs a year.

I have been doing this for 24 years.

2,500,000 lbs x 24 years = 60,000,000 lbs of cargo.

I have managed somehow to remain healthy after handling 60,000,000 lbs.

Wrap your mind around those numbers and then try to tell us we are not worth every penny and then some.

We have earned the respect we deserve. We are a vital link in this operation.

 

[Tim Nelson]

that . One reason the company looks over the IAM is because You have no bite. It's a company union run by a UA BOD . plain an simple and Uncle AL knows that . when your in bed with

someone for so long your obligated to them Just like you agcs have 120,000.00 reasons to let Randy make up your mind for ya and tell you what to do.[/b]

I think you hit the nail on the head Oman. The problem is that we have United airlines on our side of the table through it's own Board of director, Randy Canale [who was compensated as a board member according to United documents]. The solution is to vote down this United airline merger agreement in May, kick Randy Canale back up to the United Board of Directors where he belongs, and put in Rich Delaney and our own newly elected officers. All this has been set up and it is now the 'perfect day' to vote no.

The newly elected officials will stand on the shoulders of the solidarity of the masses and that is the 'juice'. At very minimum, we keep our options open and if we have to we join our brothers and sisters at United airlines and negotiate for a contract that is the best in the industry, as opposed to accepting a contract that is without question the worst contract in the industry. In fact, non-contract employees have much much more.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[lithuanian]

TIM! Where is the three year compensation to AWA!

New Direction Team prevails! West gets WHAT!

 

[pjirish317]

DF,

One question for you. Why would we want to be stuck with a concessionary, BK T/A, untill 2011, when our UA brothers and sisters CBA is ammendable on the same date as ours? Wouldn't we have "strength in numbers" for traditional bargaining then. Wouldn't that be the "Time To Fight"? With those kind of numbers you would think so. Fleet will not hold up any merger BTW. So quit making it sound as if it will be our fault it a "merger" does not happen. IT WILL HAPPEN. The only question is when they announce it. My timeline goes like this. If we vote yes to this concessionary POS, the "merger" will be announced around May 15th or so. If we vote NO on this POS T/A, then a merger announcement will be announced around the 1st week of June or so. Remember this post folks. To see if my "timeline" proves accurate or not.

 

[Tim Nelson]

District 141 Election Update

The following is from an email from a member.

THANKS TO ALL THE MEMBERS THAT CALLED AND E-MAILED THE GRAND LODGE. THIS IS A COPY OF THE FANTASY EXPLANATION SENT TO A MEMBER WHO WROTE HIM. YOU CAN SEE WHERE RANDY AND VIC LEARNED THEIR EVASIVE BULLS**T ANSWERS AND THEIR FAILURE TO EVEN CITE REFERENCES. WINPINSINGER NOW CONSIDERS THE MATTER CLOSED. IT VERY CLEARLY STATES THAT RICH CAN'T CONTINUE TO BE AN AGC AND TAKE OUT M.T.SUIT. SO RICH HAS GONE BACK TO THE RAMP AND HIS MESSAGE TO ALL OF YOU IS BRING ON JUNE.

Wimpy, just a question. In this policy that you refer to, does it also have language allowing "THE GREAT A$$" to change my contract by removing success sharing and give whomever Stevie wants convertible notes? Can we see that magic policy book some day?

copy of e-mail from winpinsinger below

From: Winpisinger Mike <[email protected]> [ Save Address ]
To:
Subject: District Lodge 141 Elections
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:55:27 -0700

Recently a question was posed to Grand Lodge concerning the right of incumbent office holders to run for different positions in the DL. We answered the question. Since then we have received numerous e-mails from members who feel aggrieved by our answer. The purpose of this e-mail is to give the basis for the answer that we gave. The answer had nothing to do with the bylaws of DL 141.

The Assistant General Chairpersons are elected in two distinct batches. Some are elected at the same time as the President/Directing General Chairperson. Others are elected two years later in what I shall refer to as the off-year elections. An incumbent AGC, who was elected at the same time as the P/DGC, would not be allowed to run for P/DGC and also for an AGC position in the same election. To allow an AGC who was elected in the off-year election to run for P/DGC while retaining their AGC position would be to give them a privilege denied to other AGC’s. That cannot be allowed and is specifically prohibited by IAM policy. That policy has been in effect for at least the 27 years I have worked here and has been uniformly applied every time this question has come up.

Secondly, if persons holding one position are allowed to run for other positions while retaining their existing position, then if their candidacies were successful, vacancies would be created in their original positions, thereby forcing the DL into another costly election.

Those are the reasons underlying the response to the question that was posed to us. I now consider this matter as closed.

 

[cltrat]

the jet jockeys will hold this much quicker than we will they are already taking shots at one another

 

[bagchucker]

CHUCK SAYS:

Just say NO to lousy contracts!! Save a job...my job, YOUR job. VOTE NO.

 

[Tim Nelson]

DF,

One question for you. Why would we want to be stuck with a concessionary, BK T/A, untill 2011, when our UA brothers and sisters CBA is ammendable on the same date as ours? Wouldn't we have "strength in numbers" for traditional bargaining then. Wouldn't that be the "Time To Fight"? With those kind of numbers you would think so. Fleet will not hold up any merger BTW. So quit making it sound as if it will be our fault it a "merger" does not happen. IT WILL HAPPEN. The only question is when they announce it. My timeline goes like this. If we vote yes to this concessionary POS, the "merger" will be announced around May 15th or so. If we vote NO on this POS T/A, then a merger announcement will be announced around the 1st week of June or so. Remember this post folks. To see if my "timeline" proves accurate or not.

PJ, good questions that go unanswered never leave and always come back up. The CIC is critical with a single stock transaction. For the first time, Fleet service will have the foresight about a merger since fleet service has held its cards long enough for this to finally reveal itself.

The last thing any reasonable worker would think about is to vote yes and accept an open ended contract directly before a merger. A contract that ALL admit is the worst contract in the industry, has the worst vacation, worst sick, worst holiday pay [none], worst scope, worst medical premiums, etc.

With the inevitable merger scheduled for announcement in the 3rd week of May, fleet service can look forward to no merger protections, no scope protections, mass layoffs, hub closures in PHX and LAS and a complete scaleback of the west. Remember, those United employees who were part of the esop can NOT get laid off. United negotiated on our side of the table and is trying to eliminate 22 stations and the CIC language so it can proceed with this 'quick fix merger'.
Only fleet service, not the mechanics, are in position to hold their position because of a merger. Hemenway will be running back, the only one that will not be back in negotiations is the United Airline Board of Director who will be voted out in June. With the elimination of Canale, merger announcement, it's the perfect day to vote No.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Henderfuzz]

Dissenting opinion from Randy Canale, in this case, is indeed warrented. I'd ask you to pursue further inquiry before you rush to judgement about those who disagree with you as being 'braindead'.
Those voting no have come to their conclusion sensibly and with the principles of logic based on what they know and anticipate. Certainly, a merger is upon us and it is rather nonsensical to put our stamp on this 'quick fix merger solution' by agreeing to a tentative agreement that is filled with a bag of pawns and riddled with open-endedness.

Your facts are 'skewed' also. Putting the weight of your argument against the CIC based on a decision by an arbitrator that was based on stock cancelation and a series of investments that were not acting in concert, has absoultely nothing to do with this current predicament. Moreso, the CIC is 'triggered' by the transaction of 'common stock'. Notice in the USA Today, today, said that this deal without question is going to be a stock deal.

Certainly your argument that the CIC is dead has not persuaded the company attorneys to tell Hemenway that the CIC must be removed for this merger. Remember, those are the same attorneys that told Hemenway not to bother taking the CIC out in regards to the America West agreement.

THe CIC is everything at this point, it offers incredible leverage and advantage in this particular merger. To take it out for a contract that has the worse vacation policy, worse sick policy, worse holiday policy and other 'first worst thing', does serious harm to justice. Don't even get me started about the part-time ratio cap being removed for the west, 22 stations under the witches hour glass, further restrictions on seniority on Full timers for part time recall.

If you think those articles are typical articles related to transition agreements then you are fooling yourself. Those articles were opened up because there are going to be 'painful' layoffs and job loss in a merger. PHX and LAS are gone, PHL may have problems, and CLT may be 'severely' reduced for IAD, based on the media articles.

This merger is every reason why workers should be 'deeply' concerned about voting yes. For perhaps the first time in history, we finally have the foreknowledge of getting screwed in a merger and have the opportunity to keep things open instead of signing our signatures on to the oncoming job losses and destruction of future wage and benefit.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

So Tim you think that voting against an agreement that gives rasies in a down ecomomy is sensibly. Well I guess if your independatly wealthy. Look I think that if a merger does take place its going to happen with or without this vote being yes or no.
There also is no guarentee that UA is going to be the buyer.
If you look at UAs balance sheet they have many problems. My guess its going to be USAirways as the buyer so out goes any COC language. There are no clear cut outcomes in any of this.
One thing is for sure though we all get an increase in our rate of pay and we all come together as one.
That should be the goal here.

 

[wiser bud]

Lets do a little math. Then you can tell me if you do not think we earn every penny.

Lets say for an average a Fleet Service agent handles 10,000 lbs a day. I know that can be a little on the low side but we will use it as an average.

Lets say on average a Fleet Service agent works 250 shifts a year.

10,000 x 250 = 2,500,000 lbs a year.

I have been doing this for 24 years.

2,500,000 lbs x 24 years = 60,000,000 lbs of cargo.

I have managed somehow to remain healthy after handling 60,000,000 lbs.

Wrap your mind around those numbers and then try to tell us we are not worth every penny and then some.

We have earned the respect we deserve. We are a vital link in this operation.

Joe, I respect what you're saying I really do. I've had two knee surgeries and one shoulder surgery to prove my time. However, if you are going to throw up statistics like that to be fair and all encompassing you need to include the numbers from the Menzies, and the Delta Globals and all the rest that do "our" job for a lot less money. The company has proven that we are replaceable and it will continue to keep going on....our "services" are a vital link but not our easily replaced "people".