IAM Fleet Service topic

[cltrat]

Gullible? Yea like the ppl who think they are coming back to the table again, now that's gullible....

let's see they have told us what 3 or 4 times this it's it we're not coming back but yet back they come
but now you're willing to believe again unreal

do you think they are talking with us to start with because they like us??

 

[Tim Nelson]

ESOP? what ESOP? it has been dead for years!

And please show us where the M&R got an immediate 30% increase.

And why dont you show the board what mtc gave up too!

I'm unclear on what source your citing about immediate pay raises? What I did say is that the mechanics got a compensation increase of 30%. It included 10% across the board, another 15% across the board in future raises, shift differ, liscense pay.

OTOH, the ramp got 6%-16% across the board for duration of contract.

Regarding the ESOP at United, I'm unclear on what your point is? Who said United still has an esop? Carefully re-read what I posted and kindly review the LOA 94-5 which stipulates no layoffs for United employees who participated in the ESOP. That is still fully enforceable and now applies to the Public Contact workers also.

Also, for US AIRWAYS Fleet, I will be posting the merger protections that the United employees currently enjoy and YOU don't. This will be critical in your decision of how you will vote. With 'Big capacity cuts' as ALL media sources are saying in this merger, it is important to know 'who' will be laid off.....US AIRWAYS workers or United. At any rate, that language will be posted....soon enough. Remember, language is EVERYTHING.

Again, back to 700, my point wasn't the esop, a rightful reading of the text shows the subject was the employees, not the ESOP.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim...

Who is they? The union is they....I talked to an AGC about 4 nights ago (probably one that IS on the Christmas list) who told me that the IAM will roll the west into the east b/c they can.....Say he's wrong & there is a vote, chances are they will to fold into us anyway.

The west may be TWU...but the IAM is administering it for them don't forget.

Your second point.....when the west is folded into the east NO more scope protections for their smaller stations...

Question for you Giantsfan about your sources.

In 2002 did the AGC's and Canale say the 1113 letters meant the company couldn't come back for more? I told you that was a lie. Right or Wrong?

In 2003, didn't the AGC's and Canale preach the MDA and 'jets for jobs' in solicitation of your vote? I told you MDA and 'jets for jobs' was a pipedream and a canale sellout. Right or wrong?

In 2005 didn't the AGC's and Canale say "The concession stand is closed?" and I told people that that was a lie. Right or wrong?

In 2007 didn't Canale and the entire negotiations team sign a letter on August 10th telling you that your choice was between voting yes or waiting till 2009? I told you that was a lie and Hemenway had to come back. Right or wrong?

Now, you are listening to the AGC's again?

Interesting, however, I am not surprised that this is a path for a yes voter.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

Hey tim , what does the new direction team say about this TA ? i hear chris is a yes , what do the other memebers say ? i heard a rumor that they had no postion , but i don't beleive that ... that would be akin to the presidental candiates saying they had no opinion on iraq ..

 

[Dissent Equals Patriotism]

Everyone is entrenched in their “TAâ€￾ ideology and every new piece of information is conformed to that belief.

Trying to convince each other wise is like banging your head against the wall.

 

[freedom]

when the use of brain cells are fully activated ...makes it even more clear that those voting no will surely be learning the hard way what a mistake that was.....

....here's some of the no voters logic.....:" this is a pos , I'm not gonna get stuck with this crap ".....so , instead they want to be stuck with an even bigger pos........that's brilliant!.......

They think that the company will come running back to the table.....of course they have no facts to base that on, except that they hate canale and "if we vote no that will show 'em"..... sounds like the same 4 year old who is so pleased with himself when he's posted at the top of the page........So, what if you're wrong 'no voters' and the company doesn't come back????.......( and we all know you have a history of being wrong)..... You are stuck with an even bigger pos!.......Are you actually naive enough to believe that you should wait till 2010 because then you'll get an even better deal???? Have you all not been paying attention for almost the last 3 years????

First off: the company will delay your talks and drag them out till way past 2010......second: after losing money for a few quarters, you think they are gonna throw more money at you???? Third: the west and the class 2 cities will still be substantially underpaid compared to the east hubs ( yeah, that's fair!) so, any no vote is a vote against pay parity and throws solidarity out the window......Do you Think you'll have their support for a possible future strike.....( answer: NO!, you won't) Fourth: people will lose jobs if this is not voted in

There is no better deal coming.....don't use guess work, speculations, assumptions.....this is in front of us now, and for almost 3 years while the company was making money the deal didn't get better.....don't be so clueless to believe that now that we are starting to lose money .....a better deal is coming if we just be patient......Why don't you all just vote yes.....bring solidarity and pay parity and field station protections in , take the extra money (that you will never see if you vote no),.....and just be patient for the combined fight at the conclusion of this contract.....thank you and God bless

Want to know how I know tim is out of touch with this companies management , its when he says “how do you know they will delay … etc “

HAHAHAHA this is America west management running the show , how do we know they will delay ? HOW DO WE KNOW THEY WILL DELAY??? Ah hahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahah!!! Oh that killed me

brother your post is right on ... lol the east is trashing a contract that is currently better than what they have now ... ... if this doesn't pass the only ones who are going to be stuck with the short end of the stick are going to be them !!!!!! wow what a job these east guys have done on one another ..if this goes down i think we will vote to transition to the east contrct and we will come out fine ... as for our misguided brothers , i'll only feel sorry for the class two citites , the rest will deserve what they get ...

 

[giantfan]

Question for you Giantsfan about your sources.

In 2002 did the AGC's and Canale say the 1113 letters meant the company couldn't come back for more? I told you that was a lie. Right or Wrong?

In 2003, didn't the AGC's and Canale preach the MDA and 'jets for jobs' in solicitation of your vote? I told you MDA and 'jets for jobs' was a pipedream and a canale sellout. Right or wrong?

In 2005 didn't the AGC's and Canale say "The concession stand is closed?" and I told people that that was a lie. Right or wrong?

In 2007 didn't Canale and the entire negotiations team sign a letter on August 10th telling you that your choice was between voting yes or waiting till 2009? I told you that was a lie and Hemenway had to come back. Right or wrong?

Now, you are listening to the AGC's again?

Interesting, however, I am not surprised that this is a path for a yes voter.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

I hope this doesn't hurt your ego that much Tim, but I never heard of you until 2007.

However, it was in 2007 when all I heard on the "joey page" was how this CIC was in our pocket and plan on getting up to $30k + payouts....

So needless to say...sorry if I don't put a lot of stock into what you say....

 

[freedom]

Everyone is entrenched in their “TA†ideology and every new piece of information is conformed to that belief.

Trying to convince each other wise is like banging your head against the wall.

I feel obligated to at least TRY and stop you guys from shooting yourselves in the foot again …. You folks were off on the moon for the last TA , I just don’t want to be looking back in 2010 and be telling you poor devils that “I told you so “ …

I keep telling you guys about the reality our country and airline face , and you keep denying it


A first quarter loss of 250 million for our company , FIRST QUARTER , we got more losses to go…

The price of oil sky rocketing and continuing to do so each and every day … check yo gas station !

Every major economic indicator shows that the us economy is heading into a very long recession .

A very weak union , and you guys KNOW THIS !!! That’s the worst fact of all … for the last TA , the one where many of you came out to protect your supposed back pay checks , roughly fifty percent of fleet voted ….. ONLY ABOUT HALF OF FLEET CARED ENOUGH TO VOTE!!!!!

The other 4 thousand guys are in the “I’m only here for the flight benefits “ category …. Ding dong ! Is anyone home ? Do you know how pathetic that is ? That only half of us care , the other half don’t give a HOOT …… think brothers THINK , none of you bothered to protest or anything in the years and years that we had the oppunity to get a new TA … complete and utter INACTION … only after a TA comes out do you get somewhat heated , but overall… I’d say we’re in a dying union …. There’s little bite to our dog …

Stop living In a fantasy world and confront the cold hard reality of LIFE , otherwise our union will not only continue to die , but it WILL die .

 

[VideoGuy]

I hope this doesn't hurt your ego that much Tim, but I never heard of you until 2007.

However, it was in 2007 when all I heard on the "joey page" was how this CIC was in our pocket and plan on getting up to $30k + payouts....

So needless to say...sorry if I don't put a lot of stock into what you say....

30 year guy and havent heard of Tim! Wow I heard news travels slow to Florida but thats unbelievable

 

[Hadenough]

company took 250 million hit in the first quarter .... we have more hits to follow ..

uh how can i put this in laymans terms , your running your own company ok , your sell ice cream .... the first few months of the year your little store takes a HUGE hit ... and your pretty sure your going to take more hits in the future , then your employees come to you asking for a higher hourly wage while your losing money ... how likely are you to either give them a raise , or give them the raise that they would like too see?

You want to know what the company's going to do ? i think their going to do what they say their going to do , agree to put the west into the easts contract ....then your meal ticket is gone my friend ....


You didn't like how i said i wouldn't strike ? well tell me brother , would you rather know now or later? i'm telling you NOW so you can plan accordingly .... we barely got 50% of fleet out to vote for the last TA .. do the math , if you can't get 50% you won't be able to get a strike vote ...

As i told you time and time again , while you may rush off to do foolhardy things like striking when the bottom of the us ecomony has dropped out , I WILL NOT ... if you think i'm going to jepordize my job so you can grasp at straws then your sadly mistaken ...

Take this now unless you want your BK contract for the next 5 years ... enjoy it ..

You talk about solidarity but yet you state up front that you are willing to commit the worst offense a union member can.

 

[Hadenough]

Hey tim , what does the new direction team say about this TA ? i hear chris is a yes , what do the other memebers say ? i heard a rumor that they had no postion , but i don't beleive that ... that would be akin to the presidental candiates saying they had no opinion on iraq ..

Have you tried to contact them? Send an e-mail and ask them yourself. Don't just listen to what you hear. Be proactive and try to find out.

 

[Hadenough]

Question for you Giantsfan about your sources.

1. In 2002 did the AGC's and Canale say the 1113 letters meant the company couldn't come back for more? I told you that was a lie. Right or Wrong?

2. In 2003, didn't the AGC's and Canale preach the MDA and 'jets for jobs' in solicitation of your vote? I told you MDA and 'jets for jobs' was a pipedream and a canale sellout. Right or wrong?

3. In 2005 didn't the AGC's and Canale say "The concession stand is closed?" and I told people that that was a lie. Right or wrong?

4. In 2007 didn't Canale and the entire negotiations team sign a letter on August 10th telling you that your choice was between voting yes or waiting till 2009? I told you that was a lie and Hemenway had to come back. Right or wrong?

5. Now, you are listening to the AGC's again?

Interesting, however, I am not surprised that this is a path for a yes voter.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

1. Right

2. Right

3. Right

4. Right

5. NO!!! They have lost all credibility.

 

[roabilly]

OK..Y’all…

Here is what I have been able to garner thus far in what UA currently has in terms of Successorship Language in their agreement. I have a source that is going to ground mail me an entire agreement in the near future.

The only applicable language, I see here is that the IAM will be guaranteed to be the Union to represent any Successor’s work group covered under the Scope Language.

Please read this language for yourself, and help us evaluate the two possible scenarios…

1) UA buying…US… perhaps, with outside financing.

2) US buying UA…perhaps, with outside financing.

No matter how yahh cut it… guess who has the best Successorship Language?
The beloved IAM! They are guaranteed to be locked in for both Fleet Groups!

Now… if they (IAM) could only write language like that to protect Fleet Service wages and Scope!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(From the Current UA CBA)

Scope of Agreement Article II

C. The Company and its Parent shall not conclude any agreement for a Successorship
Transaction unless the Successor agrees in writing, as an irrevocable condition of
the Successorship Transaction, to assume and be bound by the Agreement, to recognize
the Union as the representative of the Successor's employees, and to guarantee
that the employees represented by the IAM under the Agreement will be
employed by the Successor in accordance with the provisions of the Agreement.

Status of Agreement Article III
D. In the event of a Successorship Transaction in which the Successor is an air carrier
or entity that controls or is under the control of an air carrier, the Successor shall
provide employees represented by the IAM under the Agreement immediately prior
to the transaction with seniority integration rights provided in Sections 2, 3 and 13
of the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the
Allegheny-Mohawk merger ("Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs").

 

[Tim Nelson]

I hope this doesn't hurt your ego that much Tim, but I never heard of you until 2007.

However, it was in 2007 when all I heard on the "joey page" was how this CIC was in our pocket and plan on getting up to $30k + payouts....

So needless to say...sorry if I don't put a lot of stock into what you say....

Where do you get your information that the 22 west stations will be better off under this contract? Please explain that one?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[muircross]

I hope this doesn't hurt your ego that much Tim, but I never heard of you until 2007.

However, it was in 2007 when all I heard on the "joey page" was how this CIC was in our pocket and plan on getting up to $30k + payouts....

So needless to say...sorry if I don't put a lot of stock into what you say....

You just blew your credibility with me. Never heard of Nelson, really.