IAM Fleet Service topic

[giantfan]

Had a break here and thought I'd pop on...gift of gab, ya know!
Well coach I took your advice and trolled those merger threads and glad I did...here's a quote...

It seems to me that the CEO's of these airlines are not necessarily looking to merge because of better routes and hubs, but rather to be able to eliminate a lot of domestic capacity, and essentially "shrink" the combined airline. I know NW/DL said there would be no shrinkage, but if they don't downsize in the domestic market, what's the point of the merger? I thought a driver in an airline merge with todays fuel prices was the elimination of overcapacity in the domestic market place...... No?

In my opinion, if we merge with UA, they are going to park a lot of planes.

CAN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE MLR!!!

This merger comes down to DEMOSTIC CAPICITY CONSOLIDATION...3 words ppl should know. I'll translate this for you...
If we vote no....THEY WILL FOLD the west into the east and get away with it....
then as the merger progresses....guess what happens to our 18 field stns that ppl are so protective of....bye bye bye.....the pilots are convinced that they will be parking airplanes...well folks that has a trickle down effect that outlying stns will feel sooner than later.

Take the 3 years protection now on this T/A...

 

[robbedagain]

without the coc and things heating up its all the more reason to vote the pos down down down
i guess some would like to see others lose their jobs if this is voted in

 

[bob dylan]

The thing is O-man with the state of our economy right now and the projections for the rest of the year and beyond, I'm not sure I would even want to start traditional negotiations at the end of 2009.

This reads like something the company wants me to read. Shouldn't you be giving this argument
the other way, from you to them. They've added the $25 second bag fare along with $2 a bag
for curbside check-in and are looking into an added fare for bulkhead or aisle seating yet you
give us reasons the company wants this TA.

Lets' change it around. ''With the state of our economy right now and projections for the rest of
the year and beyond,'' I'm sure I would want to start negotiations at the end of 2009 or except
a TA that goes beyond what this TA is asking. We need to as a group STOP preaching the companys'
stance. Yes, the economy is falling severly and in doing so we need to fight. It is in our best interests
to reject anything asking for an extension that doesn't even bring us up to par or industry standards.
In 2012 we will be topped off .23 cents less than CO's topped off employee now in 2008. That makes
no sense, how will we make it in this economy, how do you except that. Has DP and others, including
our own beloved AGC's ever taken a pay cut or asked to extend thier agreements for the benifit of the company and the economy.

Lastly, IMHO we would be fools to except a TA with all the merger talk not being speculated
about even by Parker himself. He along with his ''boys club'' have initiated CIC clauses and is asking
us to for-go ours. and we have people ready to accept this, c'mon. VOTE NO and see what the comp.
does. They initiated these talks to benifit themselves not to look out for us. They'll have to come back
with a better offer or wait. Its' laughable and yet sad to read people ready to give back thier flood
insurance policy when their being told the rains a coming. Were being told the language is worthless
yet the company sees' the language as something of value. I guess they didn't read it right, lets sell
before they realize it, man thier fools, wait they are fools, right ? One side has to be wrong and your
telling me its' us.

''the times' they are a changi'n''

bob

 

[freedom]

This reads like something the company wants me to read. Shouldn't you be giving this argument
the other way, from you to them. They've added the $25 second bag fare along with $2 a bag
for curbside check-in and are looking into an added fare for bulkhead or aisle seating yet you
give us reasons the company wants this TA.

Lets' change it around. ''With the state of our economy right now and projections for the rest of
the year and beyond,'' I'm sure I would want to start negotiations at the end of 2009 or except
a TA that goes beyond what this TA is asking. We need to as a group STOP preaching the companys'
stance. Yes, the economy is falling severly and in doing so we need to fight. It is in our best interests
to reject anything asking for an extension that doesn't even bring us up to par or industry standards.
In 2012 we will be topped off .23 cents less than CO's topped off employee now in 2008. That makes
no sense, how will we make it in this economy, how do you except that. Has DP and others, including
our own beloved AGC's ever taken a pay cut or asked to extend thier agreements for the benifit of the company and the economy.

Lastly, IMHO we would be fools to except a TA with all the merger talk not being speculated
about even by Parker himself. He along with his ''boys club'' have initiated CIC clauses and is asking
us to for-go ours. and we have people ready to accept this, c'mon. VOTE NO and see what the comp.
does. They initiated these talks to benifit themselves not to look out for us. They'll have to come back
with a better offer or wait. Its' laughable and yet sad to read people ready to give back thier flood
insurance policy when their being told the rains a coming. Were being told the language is worthless
yet the company sees' the language as something of value. I guess they didn't read it right, lets sell
before they realize it, man thier fools, wait they are fools, right ? One side has to be wrong and your
telling me its' us.

''the times' they are a changi'n''

bob

company took 250 million hit in the first quarter .... we have more hits to follow ..

uh how can i put this in laymans terms , your running your own company ok , your sell ice cream .... the first few months of the year your little store takes a HUGE hit ... and your pretty sure your going to take more hits in the future , then your employees come to you asking for a higher hourly wage while your losing money ... how likely are you to either give them a raise , or give them the raise that they would like too see?

You want to know what the company's going to do ? i think their going to do what they say their going to do , agree to put the west into the easts contract ....then your meal ticket is gone my friend ....


You didn't like how i said i wouldn't strike ? well tell me brother , would you rather know now or later? i'm telling you NOW so you can plan accordingly .... we barely got 50% of fleet out to vote for the last TA .. do the math , if you can't get 50% you won't be able to get a strike vote ...

As i told you time and time again , while you may rush off to do foolhardy things like striking when the bottom of the us ecomony has dropped out , I WILL NOT ... if you think i'm going to jepordize my job so you can grasp at straws then your sadly mistaken ...

Take this now unless you want your BK contract for the next 5 years ... enjoy it ..

 

[Tim Nelson]

Had a break here and thought I'd pop on...gift of gab, ya know!
Well coach I took your advice and trolled those merger threads and glad I did...here's a quote...



CAN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE MLR!!!

This merger comes down to DEMOSTIC CAPICITY CONSOLIDATION...3 words ppl should know. I'll translate this for you...
If we vote no....THEY WILL FOLD the west into the east and get away with it....
then as the merger progresses....guess what happens to our 18 field stns that ppl are so protective of....bye bye bye.....the pilots are convinced that they will be parking airplanes...well folks that has a trickle down effect that outlying stns will feel sooner than later.

Take the 3 years protection now on this T/A...

Where do you come up with these things from? First question, Who is "They?" when you say 'they will fold the west into the east and get away with it."?????

Neither the company or union can do that, I have no idea who you are listening to or where you get that from. The west can be brought into the east contract with a vote from them but nobody has the authority to change their contract and force them into the east. Plus it would be the work of a hatchet man AND political suicide for Canale.

Second, I agree there will be 'painful capacity cuts' as the reports today say,
"A deal, one of the sources said, could be finalized within the next couple of weeks, and could include significant cuts in capacity."
So why on earth would one of the 18 + 4 stations even think about voting for this contract when the one they have gives them the best scope language in the whole industry???? Do you realize their contract has the best scope in the industry? What other airline has to employ rampers at such small stations?

Voting Yes for this contract is the equivalence of career suicide as United Airline will keep this contract till 2016. It will be America West reversed, in that their contract was up in 2005 and US AIRWAYS had no intention of renegotiating it until this industry started changing back in August.

To be clear, As I said on April 7th, United is going to merge with US AIRWAYS and it will be announced the 3rd week of May. Now the newspapers are saying it will be announced in two weeks. This merger is the sole and exclusive reason why this TA exists and there are two "Big cards" fleet service has that Hemenway wants:
1. The company attorneys told Hemenway he must have the CIC removed
2. The company attorneys told Hemenway he must get the scope of those 22 stations eliminated.


I know you continue to downplay the CIC and western scope but I think Hemenway's actions speak louder. Just makes 'good sense' NOT to vote in a contract directly before merger time. Mind boggling actually.
It's career suicide and will restrict the US AIRWAYS workers to the worst contract for the next decade, while they work side by side United airlines workers. This contract gives no holiday pay, worst vacation schedule, worst sick time, worst of everything and will be branded on Fleet service until 2016.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

company took 250 million hit in the first quarter .... we have more hits to follow ..
You want to know what the company's going to do ? i think their going to do what they say their going to do , agree to put the west into the easts contract ....then your meal ticket is gone my friend ....
You didn't like how i said i wouldn't strike ? well tell me brother , would you rather know now or later? i'm telling you NOW so you can plan accordingly .... we barely got 50% of fleet out to vote for the last TA .. do the math , if you can't get 50% you won't be able to get a strike vote ...


Take this now unless you want your BK contract for the next 5 years ... enjoy it ..

The company gave the mechanics a 30% compensation raise during this quarter that you are so concerned about. This company announced the 200% bonus plan for the officers and management in this SAME quarter you are talking about. Let the company run the business and let us focus on getting a contract that isn't the worst in the industry.

Where do you get this, "I think their going to do what they say their going to do,agree to put the west into the easts contract."???? Do you not know that the company can't do that since it has a collective bargaining agreement that it signed with you? Do you know what the District bylaws say?
I will not dispute if someone sez they are voting yes based on a pay raise, that's a choice we need to respect. But I will dispute false information when I hear it.

Take this contract and the east has a bankruptcy contract that is worse than our 2002 and 2003 bankruptcy contracts...and we will have this till 2016. It will be America West all over again where a company will just 'hang on' to this agreement as long as it can. Voters must understand that United is going to buy US AIRWAYS and it is career suicide to pass this agreement and be 'branded' with it for the next decade.

Another question, Who do you think is going to get laid off in a United merger? Don't you know that because of United's ESOP that those United employees can't be laid off?
Why do you think Canale agreed with Hemenway to cancel full-time seniority protections for part-time recall???? Why do you think Canale agreed to allow Hemenway to have unlimited part-time ratios?????
US AIRWAYS rampers are naked, exposed and 'dead meat' if this thing passes and it will be the biggest bonehead thing I have ever experienced shall it pass.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[mlr]

when the use of brain cells are fully activated ...makes it even more clear that those voting no will surely be learning the hard way what a mistake that was.....

....here's some of the no voters logic.....:" this is a pos , I'm not gonna get stuck with this crap ".....so , instead they want to be stuck with an even bigger pos........that's brilliant!.......

They think that the company will come running back to the table.....of course they have no facts to base that on, except that they hate canale and "if we vote no that will show 'em"..... sounds like the same 4 year old who is so pleased with himself when he's posted at the top of the page........So, what if you're wrong 'no voters' and the company doesn't come back????.......( and we all know you have a history of being wrong)..... You are stuck with an even bigger pos!.......Are you actually naive enough to believe that you should wait till 2010 because then you'll get an even better deal???? Have you all not been paying attention for almost the last 3 years????

First off: the company will delay your talks and drag them out till way past 2010......second: after losing money for a few quarters, you think they are gonna throw more money at you???? Third: the west and the class 2 cities will still be substantially underpaid compared to the east hubs ( yeah, that's fair!) so, any no vote is a vote against pay parity and throws solidarity out the window......Do you Think you'll have their support for a possible future strike.....( answer: NO!, you won't) Fourth: people will lose jobs if this is not voted in

There is no better deal coming.....don't use guess work, speculations, assumptions.....this is in front of us now, and for almost 3 years while the company was making money the deal didn't get better.....don't be so clueless to believe that now that we are starting to lose money .....a better deal is coming if we just be patient......Why don't you all just vote yes.....bring solidarity and pay parity and field station protections in , take the extra money (that you will never see if you vote no),.....and just be patient for the combined fight at the conclusion of this contract.....thank you and God bless

 

[Tim Nelson]

when the use of brain cells are fully activated ...makes it even more clear that those voting no will surely be learning the hard way what a mistake that was.....

....here's some of the no voters logic.....:" this is a pos , I'm not gonna get stuck with this crap ".....so , instead they want to be stuck with an even bigger pos........that's brilliant!.......

They think that the company will come running back to the table.....of course they have no facts to base that on, except that they hate canale and "if we vote no that will show 'em"..... sounds like the same 4 year old who is so pleased with himself when he's posted at the top of the page........So, what if you're wrong 'no voters' and the company doesn't come back????.......( and we all know you have a history of being wrong)..... You are stuck with an even bigger pos!.......Are you actually naive enough to believe that you should wait till 2010 because then you'll get an even better deal???? Have you all not been paying attention for almost the last 3 years????

First off: the company will delay your talks and drag them out till way past 2010......second: after losing money for a few quarters, you think they are gonna throw more money at you???? Third: the west and the class 2 cities will still be substantially underpaid compared to the east hubs ( yeah, that's fair!) so, any no vote is a vote against pay parity and throws solidarity out the window......Do you Think you'll have their support for a possible future strike.....( answer: NO!, you won't) Fourth: people will lose jobs if this is not voted in

There is no better deal coming.....don't use guess work, speculations, assumptions.....this is in front of us now, and for almost 3 years while the company was making money the deal didn't get better.....don't be so clueless to believe that now that we are starting to lose money .....a better deal is coming if we just be patient......Why don't you all just vote yes.....bring solidarity and pay parity and field station protections in , take the extra money (that you will never see if you vote no),.....and just be patient for the combined fight at the conclusion of this contract.....thank you and God bless

How do you know the company will delay talks? You are basing your decision on nonsense. This contract was the manifestation of a merger with United Airlines. That is the context in which we need to discuss this contract.

At any rate, I haven't heard any NO voter say to vote no to 'show the company'. No voters are well informed and are making 'good sense' out of this upcoming merger.
The papers said today that this merger will surely have capacity cuts.

Who do you think is going to get laid off, US AIRWAYS workers or United? I can tell you this, no United employee who participated in the ESOP CAN GET LAID OFF so in all likelihood it will be US AIRWAYS workers who will be eliminated. To this end, Canale agreed to give up the best scope in the industry by allowing Hemenway to 'strip the west scope' and put 22 stations in play. What other airline has scope that allows rampers in such small stations? Stick with the facts.

Also, Canale also agreed to allow Hemenway to strip fleet service full timers of 'reduction in force' seniority rights in regards to part-time recall. Do you think 'reduction in force' clauses were EVER opened up in any transition agreements in history? No. It's not that people hate Canale but rather Canale is a United Airline board of Director negotiating on our side of the table. That's why we will be the sacrificial lamb when reductions come.

That's also why Canale agreed with the company attorneys to eliminate the CIC, profit sharing, and strap fleet service for additional years. Do you think those contract articles are usually opened up in transition talks? Heck no they aren't. But this contract isn't a transiton agreement, it's a merger agreement that strips fleet service of recall rights, part-time ratios, best scope in the industry and NOTHING in return. Worst vacation schedule, worst sick policy, worst holiday pay, worst of everything. There is no logical reason to vote yes unless someone wants or needs an immediate pay raise and doesn't mind losing his job 6 months later.

As I said in September, Canale is a proven liar and the company will be back. I'm not a prophet but there are things this company needs that we are holding in our hand this time. CIC, and 22 stations. The pressure is on and we must hold our cards. To fold will reap destruction and thousands of layoffs.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[NETOSETONE]

Question for Mr. Tim Nelson........( third request for an answer)

Since you've been highly critical of the IAM, and to be more specific Mr. Canale, why were you not on the NC last August or this time around? You seem to have all the answers.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Question for Mr. Tim Nelson........( third request for an answer)

Since you've been highly critical of the IAM, and to be more specific Mr. Canale, why were you not on the NC last August or this time around? You seem to have all the answers.

I have been critical of the IAM but I am now interested in changing it from within after learning of so many solid union leaders who have had enough of Randy Canale's misrepresentation.

It is true that I have been highly critical of Randy Canale because he deserves it, without question.
I'm not on the NC because I'm not on Canale's christmas card list. I don't have all the answers but I share alot of answers that are already known and I get those answers out to the membership so the membership can make an informed decision. Answers that Canale refuses to answer or even talk about.

As far as the negotitions team goes, you could have Superman and not do any good if you don't stand on the shoulders of the solidarity of the masses and represent and communicate their interest. And that's what I'm talking about. He doesn't do that and it is intentional. Mike Fairbanks represented the interest of his membership and refused to sign on to this rag, but Randy threw him under the bus. That's what Randy does. he sez I'm not the Local Chairman in ORD but I ask anyone to call up the Local and aske or visit my local's website. Randy lies, that's what he does. He can't hold Rich Delaney's jockstrap.

Remember, it is NEVER the negotiator that brings justice but rather it is how the negotiator is representing the interest and message of the masses?" In regards to Randy Canale, the answer is clear, "No he isn't". Randy even said he delivered the message of 'anger' and the company heard that message. He lied, the September vote wasn't a message of anger but it was a message of fairness. Randy never respected US AIRWAYS fleet service and constantly misrepresents them in the media and in his goofy letters. I don't even think Randy can say 4 words without lying to fleet service. Randy is the 'axis of obstruction' to negotiations and that is why we positioned to vote him out of office in June so we wouldn't have to continue putting up with his nonsense disrespect and blatant disregard for US AIRWAYS fleet service.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[700UW]

ESOP? what ESOP? it has been dead for years!

And please show us where the M&R got an immediate 30% increase.

And why dont you show the board what mtc gave up too!

 

[cltrat]

mlr no matter how of a company or District Force lackey you are you'll never convince me or many others who see right thru you that the company won't be back ,not as long as that CIC and the western scope is gone.why are they even here otherwise???
some people are so gullible it is beyond belief

 

[giantfan]

Where do you come up with these things from? First question, Who is "They?" when you say 'they will fold the west into the east and get away with it."?????

Neither the company or union can do that, I have no idea who you are listening to or where you get that from. The west can be brought into the east contract with a vote from them but nobody has the authority to change their contract and force them into the east. Plus it would be the work of a hatchet man AND political suicide for Canale.

So why on earth would one of the 18 + 4 stations even think about voting for this contract when the one they have gives them the best scope language in the whole industry???? Do you realize their contract has the best scope in the industry? What other airline has to employ rampers at such small stations?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Tim...

Who is they? The union is they....I talked to an AGC about 4 nights ago (probably one that IS on the Christmas list) who told me that the IAM will roll the west into the east b/c they can.....Say he's wrong & there is a vote, chances are they will to fold into us anyway.

The west may be TWU...but the IAM is administering it for them don't forget.

Your second point.....when the west is folded into the east NO more scope protections for their smaller stations...

 

[giantfan]

mlr no matter how of a company or District Force lackey you are you'll never convince me or many others who see right thru you that the company won't be back ,not as long as that CIC and the western scope is gone.why are they even here otherwise???
some people are so gullible it is beyond belief

Gullible? Yea like the ppl who think they are coming back to the table again, now that's gullible....

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim...

Who is they? The union is they....I talked to an AGC about 4 nights ago (probably one that IS on the Christmas list) who told me that the IAM will roll the west into the east b/c they can.....Say he's wrong & there is a vote, chances are they will to fold into us anyway.

The west may be TWU...but the IAM is administering it for them don't forget.

Your second point.....when the west is folded into the east NO more scope protections for their smaller stations...

That's what I thought, your resource is "he said she said." I don't think the masses should be basing their decisions on 'gossip' even if it's from an AGC. At any rate, the bylaws don't allow it. Sorry. At US AIRWAYS you may want to remember that we had something called a 'lead referendum' that we had to vote on systemwide. I asked Miklavic why, on a conference call, and he made it clear that it was considered a 'change in the agreement' that altared the agreement and couldn't just be signed off in a LOA.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago