The Bagfather
Senior
Exactly. Company NC MS made the offhand suggestion that the company
may not approve the change, which immediately told me he would love it.
As a westie not in PHX/LAS would lose big time. Thanks BF
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IAM -- Fleet Service Thread 2/29-3/7
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may not approve the change, which immediately told me he would love it.
As a westie not in PHX/LAS would lose big time. Thanks BF
The Bagfather
Senior
Exactly. Company NC MS made the offhand suggestion that the company
may not approve the change, which immediately told me he would love it.
As a westie not in PHX/LAS would lose big time. Thanks BF
Hey.. Chill Out
Veteran
- Dec 16, 2007
- 501
- 3
I'm not too sure that furlough is a big concern out here in the west considering the average career span of a ramper is like 2 years <_< .
I think you guys are looking at it too much from your POV. Remember America West was NOT a career place, and people here have their second sources of income, that's why nobody cares if we get merged into a contract thats still better than ours.
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
hey chill,
Your absolutely right as far as class I goes but for all the class II folks it's the death penalty unless they transfer . But Please remember one thing
things in this industry can change real fast .. the security you think you have today could be very well gone tomorrow especially when looking at mergers . PHX or LAS
could be gone by the stroke of a pen . so having said that scope scope and more scope are critical for ALL party's involved. We on the East don't want any more folks
thrown to the curb.
Your absolutely right as far as class I goes but for all the class II folks it's the death penalty unless they transfer . But Please remember one thing
things in this industry can change real fast .. the security you think you have today could be very well gone tomorrow especially when looking at mergers . PHX or LAS
could be gone by the stroke of a pen . so having said that scope scope and more scope are critical for ALL party's involved. We on the East don't want any more folks
thrown to the curb.
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
tim,
"Ron should be putting out a comparison of the current east contract and what hemenway offered. That's the comparison for you guys to dwell on at this point.
Ron R just supported the following, "During negotiations this week in Philadelphia, US Airways presented your IAM negotiating committee a proposal that unmistakably conveys the company’s disrespect and contempt towards its Fleet Service Workers
I certainly hope he didn't flip flop on the above statement and hint at sympathy towards having something close to what Hemenway wants. Ron R should be removed from the negotiations team if he is telling PHX one thing and then isn't sticking by what he put out Nationally to all members.
At any rate, if Ron R is going to do his comparison's unbiasly then I presume he has costed out each concession YOU GUYS will be taking. If not then he's just blowing smoke up your arses.
My bet is that Ron doesn't even have a clue what the cost associated with each benefit his own people in PHX will lose is. Let alone hammering the majority of west stations with contracting out language.
Ask Ron to cost out the 22-25 benefits you will lose. If he doesn't then tell him to look up at the scoreboarad instead of putting out goofy comparisons that don't cost out anything.
"
Tim very well put . and you guys in phx need to remember Ron was ready to sign on the dotted line on Jan POS T/A.
IMO he really doesn't have the memberships interest at heart but the heart of Randy Canale. and his approval . just an observation..
"Ron should be putting out a comparison of the current east contract and what hemenway offered. That's the comparison for you guys to dwell on at this point.
Ron R just supported the following, "During negotiations this week in Philadelphia, US Airways presented your IAM negotiating committee a proposal that unmistakably conveys the company’s disrespect and contempt towards its Fleet Service Workers
I certainly hope he didn't flip flop on the above statement and hint at sympathy towards having something close to what Hemenway wants. Ron R should be removed from the negotiations team if he is telling PHX one thing and then isn't sticking by what he put out Nationally to all members.
At any rate, if Ron R is going to do his comparison's unbiasly then I presume he has costed out each concession YOU GUYS will be taking. If not then he's just blowing smoke up your arses.
My bet is that Ron doesn't even have a clue what the cost associated with each benefit his own people in PHX will lose is. Let alone hammering the majority of west stations with contracting out language.
Ask Ron to cost out the 22-25 benefits you will lose. If he doesn't then tell him to look up at the scoreboarad instead of putting out goofy comparisons that don't cost out anything.
"
Tim very well put . and you guys in phx need to remember Ron was ready to sign on the dotted line on Jan POS T/A.
IMO he really doesn't have the memberships interest at heart but the heart of Randy Canale. and his approval . just an observation..
Tim Nelson
Veteran
remember, the POV from a second class station would trade places with PHX any day. I think alot of us get annoyed at PHX for crying like they are poor. ORD has most workers making $9 or $10 bucks an hour but they don't have the opportunity like PHX does to make a bit more since ORD doesn't have paid sick time, no double time, no premium holidays, less vacation, less holidays, no shift differ.
Bottom line, we now know the company has no intentions to get a transition agreement so I'm hopeful that Randy Canale can be pursuaded to recommence section 6 for the west. I think there is a chance on him recognizing this.
regards,
Follow the NEW DIRECTION WEBSITE FOR ALL THE LATEST NEWS
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
Henderfuzz
Senior
- Mar 29, 2006
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My question to you is would you be willing to give up some of the higher pay rates for scope protection? Becasue if you look at the other carriers and where they have fulltime employees that work for the airline as opposed to contract workers, most airlines no longer have there own working in there smaller cities anymore. Even big AA has there eagle guys who are paid much less than ther AA counterparts.
Im saying 20 an hour is a good rate, but when you look at it on the whole, as compaired to others it might be all we can expect, or we may just stay right where we are without getting anything for a really long time. I can tell you there is a lot of frustration out here with this whole process.
We need to see some kind of progress.
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
fuzz,
to answer your question . YES I would give up some top end pay rate for scope protection . I would like to see the union
do a cost anaylais to see what the real cost savings is to the company to outsource vs stay in house. we have lost more than
half our system since 05 and earlier so there are plenty of citys they can go and figure out how much the cost of running that
station is vs before they outsourced.
to answer your question . YES I would give up some top end pay rate for scope protection . I would like to see the union
do a cost anaylais to see what the real cost savings is to the company to outsource vs stay in house. we have lost more than
half our system since 05 and earlier so there are plenty of citys they can go and figure out how much the cost of running that
station is vs before they outsourced.
Henderfuzz
Senior
- Mar 29, 2006
- 305
- 0
I think thats a fair answer. I agree I dont want anyone to be forced into a move becasue there city is contracted but it is the industry we all chose, and we all no the risk there is in working in it.
West get's uniform allotment. $80/year for FT and $50/year for PT. It's kinda a tossup which is better. OTOH I'm still waiting for my allotment which is contractually due on January 1 of each year.
No shift differential in the West contract.
No ops pay. Ops isn't fleet on the West side. There's a Lead premium, but it's $1, East is $1.01. Geographic differential is the biggest joke I've seen. It only is applied when the Company can't get anyone to apply because they don't pay enough.
West match is 50% up to 6%, but there's a "me too" clause. If any on property work group gets better, we get it too. CSRs now get a flat 3% contrib regardless of employee participation. GREAT for those that won't contribute.
We HAD the ratio locked at what it was at DOS. Good ol Linda Malone, who was the TWU Local 580 President (and is a traitorous #### now in Labor Relations) gave that away. Didnt' trade, GAVE it away.
Also, the "Helping Hands letter" posted is NOT a letter. That is an exerpt fromt he first TA, which was NOT ratified. I know of at LEAST one grievance on the West side for scope in being forced to do East work. The grievance is lost between Step 2 and 3. But I'm sure JM is on top of it....
roabilly
Veteran
- Feb 17, 2008
- 2,136
- 2,355
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome Mr. Blownknees ....
Don't mind my accent... I'll be lookin' fer some posts frum yahh.
Whut station ? Previous Airline ?
west fleet
Newbie
- Mar 1, 2008
- 9
- 0
"He made it clear that the N/C would not accept substandard T/A proposals"........I am sorry Roabilly but the proposal the negotiations team already presented to the company from the 141 website is substandard. So I would say that is a inaccurate statement as there is no protection for the timebombed west cities, furloughed people,and they took money from junior agents already agreed upon in the first TA. I just dont get it.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Lith, could you email me with Tom Brickner's email address?
regards,
Tim Nelson email here
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
Jester
Veteran
Necigrad,
You're right. All those "advantages" Tim listed are either non-existant, overstated or completely opposite from what he says as I am a part-time West ramper myself. Then again most of the East guys forget a large majority are willingly part-time at West as working here for income or as a career could be titles for books named "The Road to Poverty" or "Living at the Airport Lifestyle".
About the only thing Tim is correct about is the scopes protections within the West contract to protect jobs for which most people don't care about in the first place, at least, on average given two years as a ramper would make someone halfway up the seniority list.
Minimum 2 hours? That's great as most of the part-timers are looking to leave early anyway.
No double time? How many part-time people are doing close to 40 hours a week, not to mention 7 days a week to get double time?
60 Day call back? There are West people who actually want to come back?
Vancancies? West can't hire enough people fast enough.
Sick leave? What's that for part-timers as we get zero presently.
Holiday Pay? Extra four days a year for 50% more pay... will someone pinch me in my new found wealth?
Four weeks paid vacation? After how many years? Is it after a decade when 99% of all hires will be gone by then?
Uniform allowance? More new found wealth of $50 maximum for a part-timer to recieve over priced stuff from the company uniform outlet? That's about 3 pair of shorts, plus shipping.
Shift differentials? What's that? Not at any West station I know about.
Geographic pay differentials? When the company can't find people willing to start at $7.50/hour? Imagine that one living in California.
Health insurance coverage? Not bad and very reasonable, but part-timers limited to coverage for only employee and not family. Part-timers cannot even offer to pay the full premium rate to cover a spouse, I know... I tried. Full-timers get coverage for whole family at a reasonable price.
Disability coverage? Never heard of it except as provided through government mandated Workers Comp, and the private coverage being offered through a payroll deduction is a joke as it wouldn't cover my monthly power bill.
401K Benefit? Check the math: $9/hour x 3% = 27 cents only if the employee contributes 6% of the $9/hour. So you use Tim's figures of 65 cents for part-time and $1 for full-time, that's still a negative for West, and that assumes the employee could afford 6% of a meager wage in the first place.
Part-Time/Full-Time Ratio? Suppose to be no more than 70% system wide, but Company has a hard enough time finding people who could afford to work here full-time. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Company REQUIRED people to be full-time as new hires so they could eventually go part-time?
Top out pay? $15.40? After how many years? I think it is 14 years.... yes, 99.9% of all people hired by West will NEVER get to that level, including myself as I would have RETIRED by then, along with most people who get to that much service!
Profit sharing? Chump change for a part-timer. Couple hundred dollars over a year? I spend that on a couple of pairs of good work boots.
Whatever "benefits" Tim speaks about are so minor as they could be compensated easily enough by an extra $5/hour raise within a month. The more serious intangible issue for West is the limits on the number of trades or drops a ramp agent is allowed to make during a month. I know a few people who can only afford to work for West by being able to leave for weeks at a time and then work solid for weeks at a time on the ramp. I know this has been a issue with the CSRs who were accustom to unlimited numbers of trades or drops during a month, like the West rampers get now. Need a vacation? Just drop a week's worth of days and pick up hours elsewhere.
I am still waiting for Tim to explain some REAL benefits to the West contract over the East contract in terms of monetary rewards and compensation.
So Opines Jester.
Management will try to outsource every single time especial during merger maddens down sizing and the company looking for investors. It is an easy sell to union because of the numbers. Sell out the small and medium stations for the hubs and focus cities. It comes down to where are the votes and protecting the majority. Management loves to outsource makes the books look good. The cost analysis on outsourcing is an issue that is bigger that USAirways. US Management aligns itself with corporate Americana. Hard odds for the unions. WHIPSAWING IN AMERICA IS ALIVE AND WELL
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