IAM -- Fleet Service Thread 2/29-3/7

[The Bagfather]

Good for PHX, bad for the rest.

Exactly. Company NC MS made the offhand suggestion that the company
may not approve the change, which immediately told me he would love it.
As a westie not in PHX/LAS would lose big time. Thanks BF

 

[The Bagfather]

Good for PHX, bad for the rest.

Exactly. Company NC MS made the offhand suggestion that the company
may not approve the change, which immediately told me he would love it.
As a westie not in PHX/LAS would lose big time. Thanks BF

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Then if/or when you are recalled the 60 day rule will apply. You go back to DAY 1 PAY.

I'm not too sure that furlough is a big concern out here in the west considering the average career span of a ramper is like 2 years <_< .

I think you guys are looking at it too much from your POV. Remember America West was NOT a career place, and people here have their second sources of income, that's why nobody cares if we get merged into a contract thats still better than ours.

 

[orioleman]

hey chill,
Your absolutely right as far as class I goes but for all the class II folks it's the death penalty unless they transfer . But Please remember one thing

things in this industry can change real fast .. the security you think you have today could be very well gone tomorrow especially when looking at mergers . PHX or LAS

could be gone by the stroke of a pen . so having said that scope scope and more scope are critical for ALL party's involved. We on the East don't want any more folks

thrown to the curb.

 

[orioleman]

tim,
"Ron should be putting out a comparison of the current east contract and what hemenway offered. That's the comparison for you guys to dwell on at this point.

Ron R just supported the following, "During negotiations this week in Philadelphia, US Airways presented your IAM negotiating committee a proposal that unmistakably conveys the company’s disrespect and contempt towards its Fleet Service Workers

I certainly hope he didn't flip flop on the above statement and hint at sympathy towards having something close to what Hemenway wants. Ron R should be removed from the negotiations team if he is telling PHX one thing and then isn't sticking by what he put out Nationally to all members.

At any rate, if Ron R is going to do his comparison's unbiasly then I presume he has costed out each concession YOU GUYS will be taking. If not then he's just blowing smoke up your arses.

My bet is that Ron doesn't even have a clue what the cost associated with each benefit his own people in PHX will lose is. Let alone hammering the majority of west stations with contracting out language.
Ask Ron to cost out the 22-25 benefits you will lose. If he doesn't then tell him to look up at the scoreboarad instead of putting out goofy comparisons that don't cost out anything.
"

Tim very well put . and you guys in phx need to remember Ron was ready to sign on the dotted line on Jan POS T/A.

IMO he really doesn't have the memberships interest at heart but the heart of Randy Canale. and his approval . just an observation..

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm not too sure that furlough is a big concern out here in the west considering the average career span of a ramper is like 2 years <_< .

I think you guys are looking at it too much from your POV. Remember America West was NOT a career place, and people here have their second sources of income, that's why nobody cares if we get merged into a contract thats still better than ours.

remember, the POV from a second class station would trade places with PHX any day. I think alot of us get annoyed at PHX for crying like they are poor. ORD has most workers making $9 or $10 bucks an hour but they don't have the opportunity like PHX does to make a bit more since ORD doesn't have paid sick time, no double time, no premium holidays, less vacation, less holidays, no shift differ.

Bottom line, we now know the company has no intentions to get a transition agreement so I'm hopeful that Randy Canale can be pursuaded to recommence section 6 for the west. I think there is a chance on him recognizing this.

regards,

Follow the NEW DIRECTION WEBSITE FOR ALL THE LATEST NEWS

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Henderfuzz]

hey chill,
Your absolutely right as far as class I goes but for all the class II folks it's the death penalty unless they transfer . But Please remember one thing

things in this industry can change real fast .. the security you think you have today could be very well gone tomorrow especially when looking at mergers . PHX or LAS

could be gone by the stroke of a pen . so having said that scope scope and more scope are critical for ALL party's involved. We on the East don't want any more folks

thrown to the curb.

My question to you is would you be willing to give up some of the higher pay rates for scope protection? Becasue if you look at the other carriers and where they have fulltime employees that work for the airline as opposed to contract workers, most airlines no longer have there own working in there smaller cities anymore. Even big AA has there eagle guys who are paid much less than ther AA counterparts.
Im saying 20 an hour is a good rate, but when you look at it on the whole, as compaired to others it might be all we can expect, or we may just stay right where we are without getting anything for a really long time. I can tell you there is a lot of frustration out here with this whole process.
We need to see some kind of progress.

 

[orioleman]

fuzz,
to answer your question . YES I would give up some top end pay rate for scope protection . I would like to see the union

do a cost anaylais to see what the real cost savings is to the company to outsource vs stay in house. we have lost more than

half our system since 05 and earlier so there are plenty of citys they can go and figure out how much the cost of running that

station is vs before they outsourced.

 

[Henderfuzz]

fuzz,
to answer your question . YES I would give up some top end pay rate for scope protection . I would like to see the union

do a cost anaylais to see what the real cost savings is to the company to outsource vs stay in house. we have lost more than

half our system since 05 and earlier so there are plenty of citys they can go and figure out how much the cost of running that

station is vs before they outsourced.

I think thats a fair answer. I agree I dont want anyone to be forced into a move becasue there city is contracted but it is the industry we all chose, and we all no the risk there is in working in it.

 

[necigrad]

Article 18 Uniforms: East doesn't get uniform pay, does west?

West get's uniform allotment. $80/year for FT and $50/year for PT. It's kinda a tossup which is better. OTOH I'm still waiting for my allotment which is contractually due on January 1 of each year.

Article 19 shift differs: East doesn't get shift differs. Advantage West. hundreds of thousands.

No shift differential in the West contract.

Article 19a Ops pay and Geographical pay...advantage West

No ops pay. Ops isn't fleet on the West side. There's a Lead premium, but it's $1, East is $1.01. Geographic differential is the biggest joke I've seen. It only is applied when the Company can't get anyone to apply because they don't pay enough.

Article 23: Pension
IAM pension was a big concession to our 401k but is basically $1hr for full time, $65 cents hr for part time. West has 401k but I'm not sure of the company contributions.

West match is 50% up to 6%, but there's a "me too" clause. If any on property work group gets better, we get it too. CSRs now get a flat 3% contrib regardless of employee participation. GREAT for those that won't contribute.

Article 26: Part time employees. East has 40%, dunno what the west has???

We HAD the ratio locked at what it was at DOS. Good ol Linda Malone, who was the TWU Local 580 President (and is a traitorous #### now in Labor Relations) gave that away. Didnt' trade, GAVE it away.

Also, the "Helping Hands letter" posted is NOT a letter. That is an exerpt fromt he first TA, which was NOT ratified. I know of at LEAST one grievance on the West side for scope in being forced to do East work. The grievance is lost between Step 2 and 3. But I'm sure JM is on top of it....

 

[roabilly]

hey fella's thanks for your help.

30 plus yrs

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome Mr. Blownknees ....

Don't mind my accent... I'll be lookin' fer some posts frum yahh.

Whut station ? Previous Airline ?

 

[west fleet]

"He made it clear that the N/C would not accept substandard T/A proposals"........I am sorry Roabilly but the proposal the negotiations team already presented to the company from the 141 website is substandard. So I would say that is a inaccurate statement as there is no protection for the timebombed west cities, furloughed people,and they took money from junior agents already agreed upon in the first TA. I just dont get it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Thank you moderator for refreshing the forums.

The question of Mr. Hemenways letter to fleet employees on the Hub on the companys proposal that was denied by the NC was posed to Mr. Brickner (IAM International airline Coordinator)for an opinion. Here is his response posted Friday February 29:
The Committee can only ultimately represent the will of the membership, and, thus far, the Company has not proposed anything that the Committee believes has any chance of ratifying. What good would it do the membership [east and west], the union, or the company for that matter, to bring another contract back for ratification to get voted down? Such would only serve to divide us, erode our solidarity, and serve no business purpose of US Airways. The Company has indicated they want to continue to bargain, so I’m sure we will continue to bargain, but the only contract that will ratify has to adequately address the issues of both east and west. We are not in the habit of negotiating contracts that kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
If you, or anyone else, think otherwise, I certainly haven’t heard anything to that effect. It appears the members support the positions taken by the Committee. I continue to monitor the negotiations and remain hopeful. I’ve never been involved in a negotiation that didn’t culminate in an agreement. As long as reasonable men are talking there is hope for an agreement.
I have feeling that labor’s experience at US Airways [pilots and flight attendants still don’t have agreements either] is causing many to doubt the wisdom of further industry consolidation.
As always, thank you for your continued interest and support for the union.
In Solidarity,Tom

Lith, could you email me with Tom Brickner's email address?

regards,

Tim Nelson email here
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

Who signed the letter?

Something to ponder. Why wait till 2009? Why not negotiate off of the "West Contract"? The west contract blows the east contract away under every article and is worth more. Plus it has the additional benefit of beating the east contract by 2 years in getting to section 6 negotiaitons.

Consider the following

Article 3: Scope
West contract has 10 times the scope as the east contract. Jobs/stations are protected, unlike the east contract which has the absolute worst scope in the industry, including the non-union carriers who have no scope. Advantage West by millions and millions

Article 5: Hours of service
not sure of west swaps or if a part timer can work only 2 hours. Alot of east siders wouldn't mind 4 10hr shifts a week though. Advantage west contract

Article 6: Overtime:
east contract has no double time. Worth millions. Advantage west contract

Article 7 seniority: East has 60 day rule, Pay date seniority. Advantage West by millions.

Article 8 Filling of vacancies: East has ready reserve. Advantage west by thousands$

Article 13: Sick leave: East has unpaid sick leave. Call in sick, no pay. Advantage west by Millions$

Article 14 Holidays: 5 holidays for east, no premium pay for holidays. Advantage west by millions.
Article 15: Vacations: top out of only 4 weeks of vacation. Advantage west

Article 18 Uniforms: East doesn't get uniform pay, does west?

Article 19 shift differs: East doesn't get shift differs. Advantage West. hundreds of thousands.
Article 19a Ops pay and Geographical pay...advantage West
[FWIW: the west has many stations that get geo pay. For instance SJC gets a top out of $15.20 plus a geo pay of 23% on top of that [heard today it was 30% though], and $1 operatons pay.

Article 22 Insurance: East insurance plans aren't the best but heard the west pays less for better coverage. Dunno.
STD: East doesn't have company paid short term disability. Advantage west
LTD: East doesn't have company paid long term disability. Advantage west

Article 23: Pension
IAM pension was a big concession to our 401k but is basically $1hr for full time, $65 cents hr for part time. West has 401k but I'm not sure of the company contributions.

Article 26: Part time employees. East has 40%, dunno what the west has???

Article 30 Compensation. $17.52 for the hubs, $15.76 for the majority of stations for east. West has $15.20 for all stations [plus geo, ops pay as mentioned above]. Overall, advantage east by IMO millions.

miscellaneous: East has change of control: $21.43hr if triggered, Profit sharing. Advantage east by millions

Article 31 Duration: West is 2 years ahead of the east and can already negotiate in section 6. Advantage west....PRICELESS.

In conclusion, I have no idea why we don't use the west contract since everything we are asking for is already contained in the west contract and alot of what we haven't asked for is.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Necigrad,

You're right. All those "advantages" Tim listed are either non-existant, overstated or completely opposite from what he says as I am a part-time West ramper myself. Then again most of the East guys forget a large majority are willingly part-time at West as working here for income or as a career could be titles for books named "The Road to Poverty" or "Living at the Airport Lifestyle".

About the only thing Tim is correct about is the scopes protections within the West contract to protect jobs for which most people don't care about in the first place, at least, on average given two years as a ramper would make someone halfway up the seniority list.

Minimum 2 hours? That's great as most of the part-timers are looking to leave early anyway.

No double time? How many part-time people are doing close to 40 hours a week, not to mention 7 days a week to get double time?

60 Day call back? There are West people who actually want to come back?

Vancancies? West can't hire enough people fast enough.

Sick leave? What's that for part-timers as we get zero presently.

Holiday Pay? Extra four days a year for 50% more pay... will someone pinch me in my new found wealth?

Four weeks paid vacation? After how many years? Is it after a decade when 99% of all hires will be gone by then?

Uniform allowance? More new found wealth of $50 maximum for a part-timer to recieve over priced stuff from the company uniform outlet? That's about 3 pair of shorts, plus shipping.

Shift differentials? What's that? Not at any West station I know about.

Geographic pay differentials? When the company can't find people willing to start at $7.50/hour? Imagine that one living in California.

Health insurance coverage? Not bad and very reasonable, but part-timers limited to coverage for only employee and not family. Part-timers cannot even offer to pay the full premium rate to cover a spouse, I know... I tried. Full-timers get coverage for whole family at a reasonable price.

Disability coverage? Never heard of it except as provided through government mandated Workers Comp, and the private coverage being offered through a payroll deduction is a joke as it wouldn't cover my monthly power bill.

401K Benefit? Check the math: $9/hour x 3% = 27 cents only if the employee contributes 6% of the $9/hour. So you use Tim's figures of 65 cents for part-time and $1 for full-time, that's still a negative for West, and that assumes the employee could afford 6% of a meager wage in the first place.

Part-Time/Full-Time Ratio? Suppose to be no more than 70% system wide, but Company has a hard enough time finding people who could afford to work here full-time. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Company REQUIRED people to be full-time as new hires so they could eventually go part-time?

Top out pay? $15.40? After how many years? I think it is 14 years.... yes, 99.9% of all people hired by West will NEVER get to that level, including myself as I would have RETIRED by then, along with most people who get to that much service!

Profit sharing? Chump change for a part-timer. Couple hundred dollars over a year? I spend that on a couple of pairs of good work boots.


Whatever "benefits" Tim speaks about are so minor as they could be compensated easily enough by an extra $5/hour raise within a month. The more serious intangible issue for West is the limits on the number of trades or drops a ramp agent is allowed to make during a month. I know a few people who can only afford to work for West by being able to leave for weeks at a time and then work solid for weeks at a time on the ramp. I know this has been a issue with the CSRs who were accustom to unlimited numbers of trades or drops during a month, like the West rampers get now. Need a vacation? Just drop a week's worth of days and pick up hours elsewhere.

I am still waiting for Tim to explain some REAL benefits to the West contract over the East contract in terms of monetary rewards and compensation.

So Opines Jester.

 

[john john]

fuzz,
to answer your question . YES I would give up some top end pay rate for scope protection . I would like to see the union

do a cost anaylais to see what the real cost savings is to the company to outsource vs stay in house. we have lost more than

half our system since 05 and earlier so there are plenty of citys they can go and figure out how much the cost of running that

station is vs before they outsourced.

Management will try to outsource every single time especial during merger maddens down sizing and the company looking for investors. It is an easy sell to union because of the numbers. Sell out the small and medium stations for the hubs and focus cities. It comes down to where are the votes and protecting the majority. Management loves to outsource makes the books look good. The cost analysis on outsourcing is an issue that is bigger that USAirways. US Management aligns itself with corporate Americana. Hard odds for the unions. WHIPSAWING IN AMERICA IS ALIVE AND WELL