IAM -- Fleet Service Thread 2/29-3/7

[roadtrip]

hey folks new to the boards.. anyone know how I can get a picture next to my name

Welcome to the board

Your handle name makes me think you have alot of time.

To change your picture try this

Go to My Controls can be found top of the page click that

Then look for edit profile picture you will need to upload the right size file it will tell ya

Good luck

 

[blownkneesbob]

hey fella's thanks for your help.

30 plus yrs

 

[orioleman]

blown,
welcome to the boards. be careful there are some shady characters on here..

non the less after reading the IAM proposal to the company VERY disappointment. My question is what the h*ll has Randy been doing in terms of

putting together a t/a.. looks to me like a little vacation change the top out and cut and paste the rest of the rag. IMO even if the company would have

accepted that I don't think it would have had a chance of going thru.. that's pretty much the sentiments thats going around the breakrooms

oh well 09 can't get here fast enough better yet June can't get here fast enough.

If thats Randys best dance card guess he will be sitting on the sidelines watching while Delaney dances away with his girl

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Hey, just so you guys know, (and im sure you already have heard) There was a letter posted in the PHX breakroom today saying that Randy wants to bring the west under the east agreement, and that they want to wait until '09 to do Section 6 negotiations.

He basically stated that any negotiations would be fruitless, and they are awating the companies response to that course of action.


Good for PHX, bad for the rest. I think they are doing this because their waivering support in the west. They need all the votes they can get the next time they wipe their a$$ with a sheet of paper and present it to us to vote on.

 

[Hadenough]

There was a copy of Al's letter in the break room today. Then I heard a Shift Mgr. saying how Al was right about what was said in the letter. He was "discussing" with a ramper about how we should have come to an agreement since the company had the stronger position and we were in a weak position. The best part is the ramper told him that was a bunch of BS. Looks like management has decided to put on a misinformation campaign. I would not be suprised to find out that the shift mgr printed the letter himself and brought it in.

 

[Tim Nelson]

This was posted a couple of threads back.... " Our NC offered a proposal that was modest and fair and would have only brought us up to wages and benefits that still trail UA, WN, AA, CO"..... How could anyone say it was fair when the guys on furlough wont be brought back, west cities will be lost and pay is taken away from the employees with 1 to 9 years and just put on the top. I thought we had people there who were not kissing the pinky ring and looking out for us.

West Fleet....I like your style.

Let me refresh the context of what you quoted me on so it could be put back in context.
You quoted me responding to a thread where Tom Brickner was apparently suggesting that somehow fleet service was going to kill the golden goose. I did not mean to imply that the IAM proposal was finally agreeable, in fact, I believe I mentioned I was mind boggled that Canale didn't address steps 1-9 regarding pay. However, in the context of 'killing the golden goose' Canale's offer was modest and fair...too fair. Again, doesn't mean I think fleet service is going to kill the golden goose or that Canale's offer is finally acceptable because it is not.

The truth of the matter is that the west really gets hosed over with that contract as the west will lose 22-25 benefits. In essance, Hemenway wants to merge the west into the east contract not to benefit the west but to give the concessionary east contract to the westies.

I don't believe our negotiations team was given any 'costing out' of items and that's why Canale hasn't costed out anything...because the west would stand to lose 'significantly'. Don't you think that Hemenway comes to the table prepared and knows what each word cost? Canale is playing a game and his game is playing with your jobs.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[orioleman]

hey chill, and all points west congrats if that is true.

YO, SHOCKER .. come and explain your quote a week ago "Randy is going to bring you back a Industry leading contract "

well that should be the final kiss of death for REAM08 . since randy can't even get a T/A thru I for one sure as H*ll don't want the BOSS and his band of merry men

going to the table for me in traditional neg... THE NEW DIRECTION TEAM is the ONLY DIRECTION to take at this point...


ps for shocker. don't even come on here and talk about experience in neg .. because if randy is the experience then I'll go with the newbies anyday

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Well, RR has posted an unbiased comparison of the latest agreement and counter from the company, and it seems that PHX has only something to gain from getting put under the current east language.

Am I right to think this? Surely it means more pay, but would they, then, have an opportunity to clean house in some field stations?

You know what's sad guys? Your bankruptcy contract is still better than our NON bankruptcy contract hahahah!

Even more sad, southwest employees get up to 3000 for profit sharing here in PHX and they want to take ours away altogether.
Is nobody else as furious about this as I am?

People, all politics aside, you need to realize that what our union is trying to negotiate, is far less than what we are worth, and by no means comparible to any other airline.

This is truly a Greek tragedy!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hey, just so you guys know, (and im sure you already have heard) There was a letter posted in the PHX breakroom today saying that Randy wants to bring the west under the east agreement, and that they want to wait until '09 to do Section 6 negotiations.

He basically stated that any negotiations would be fruitless, and they are awating the companies response to that course of action.


Good for PHX, bad for the rest. I think they are doing this because their waivering support in the west. They need all the votes they can get the next time they wipe their a$$ with a sheet of paper and present it to us to vote on.

Who signed the letter?

Something to ponder. Why wait till 2009? Why not negotiate off of the "West Contract"? The west contract blows the east contract away under every article and is worth more. Plus it has the additional benefit of beating the east contract by 2 years in getting to section 6 negotiaitons.

Consider the following

Article 3: Scope
West contract has 10 times the scope as the east contract. Jobs/stations are protected, unlike the east contract which has the absolute worst scope in the industry, including the non-union carriers who have no scope. Advantage West by millions and millions

Article 5: Hours of service
not sure of west swaps or if a part timer can work only 2 hours. Alot of east siders wouldn't mind 4 10hr shifts a week though. Advantage west contract

Article 6: Overtime:
east contract has no double time. Worth millions. Advantage west contract

Article 7 seniority: East has 60 day rule, Pay date seniority. Advantage West by millions.

Article 8 Filling of vacancies: East has ready reserve. Advantage west by thousands$

Article 13: Sick leave: East has unpaid sick leave. Call in sick, no pay. Advantage west by Millions$

Article 14 Holidays: 5 holidays for east, no premium pay for holidays. Advantage west by millions.
Article 15: Vacations: top out of only 4 weeks of vacation. Advantage west

Article 18 Uniforms: East doesn't get uniform pay, does west?

Article 19 shift differs: East doesn't get shift differs. Advantage West. hundreds of thousands.
Article 19a Ops pay and Geographical pay...advantage West
[FWIW: the west has many stations that get geo pay. For instance SJC gets a top out of $15.20 plus a geo pay of 23% on top of that [heard today it was 30% though], and $1 operatons pay.

Article 22 Insurance: East insurance plans aren't the best but heard the west pays less for better coverage. Dunno.
STD: East doesn't have company paid short term disability. Advantage west
LTD: East doesn't have company paid long term disability. Advantage west

Article 23: Pension
IAM pension was a big concession to our 401k but is basically $1hr for full time, $65 cents hr for part time. West has 401k but I'm not sure of the company contributions.

Article 26: Part time employees. East has 40%, dunno what the west has???

Article 30 Compensation. $17.52 for the hubs, $15.76 for the majority of stations for east. West has $15.20 for all stations [plus geo, ops pay as mentioned above]. Overall, advantage east by IMO millions.

miscellaneous: East has change of control: $21.43hr if triggered, Profit sharing. Advantage east by millions

Article 31 Duration: West is 2 years ahead of the east and can already negotiate in section 6. Advantage west....PRICELESS.

In conclusion, I have no idea why we don't use the west contract since everything we are asking for is already contained in the west contract and alot of what we haven't asked for is.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well, RR has posted an unbiased comparison of the latest agreement and counter from the company, and it seems that PHX has only something to gain from getting put under the current east language.

Am I right to think this? Surely it means more pay, but would they, then, have an opportunity to clean house in some field stations?

You know what's sad guys? Your bankruptcy contract is still better than our NON bankruptcy contract hahahah!

Even more sad, southwest employees get up to 3000 for profit sharing here in PHX and they want to take ours away altogether.
Is nobody else as furious about this as I am?

People, all politics aside, you need to realize that what our union is trying to negotiate, is far less than what we are worth, and by no means comparible to any other airline.

This is truly a Greek tragedy!

Hang in there PHX. I'm hearing section 6 may be on the way. Not finally sure but I do think the IAM is now evaluating it.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Hadenough]

Hey, just so you guys know, (and im sure you already have heard) There was a letter posted in the PHX breakroom today saying that Randy wants to bring the west under the east agreement, and that they want to wait until '09 to do Section 6 negotiations.

He basically stated that any negotiations would be fruitless, and they are awating the companies response to that course of action.


Good for PHX, bad for the rest. I think they are doing this because their waivering support in the west. They need all the votes they can get the next time they wipe their a$$ with a sheet of paper and present it to us to vote on.

If they do this then we all loose but the sad thing is the west will loose a lot more. The problem is by the time you realize what you have lost it will be too late. All of us will be stuck with this P.O.S. contract for a long time. Go back a few post and read the east contract for yourselves. There will be furloughs and the loss of numerous benefits.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Right, that's what I was reading. I'm just trying to comprehend why the union could see this as beneficial.

 

[Black Magic]

Keep the company in the hot spot! Dont merge the west into the east contract, there is too much to lose and not enough to gain.

 

[Hadenough]

If they do this then we all loose but the sad thing is the west will loose a lot more. The problem is by the time you realize what you have lost it will be too late. All of us will be stuck with this P.O.S. contract for a long time. Go back a few post and read the east contract for yourselves. There will be furloughs and the loss of numerous benefits.

Then if/or when you are recalled the 60 day rule will apply. You go back to DAY 1 PAY.

 

[orioleman]

Hadenough,
remember they can't extend the contract without a vote. so if he does go through with this our east contract will be amendable in 09

and by then we WILL have new LEADERSHIP in place to b*tch Slap Al and the boys back to there little castle in the sand.


I remember at a union meeting last year the BOSS rolled up his sleeves and told the membership to start preparing your war chest because in 09

we are going to take to the company and show them we mean business . his quote "I just want to let you guys know to prepare to strike"

what Freaking joke...