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- Thread starter FlightChic
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Lose the bid sheet. It will gain you nothing.
Do your own math. I admit, it is very tedious. I did it when I was on reserve and found my feelings were wrong, the bid sheet cost nothing in regards to the number of blockholders. You are disingenuous if you do not try. IM me if you have problems.
The company loves it when you fight their battles for them. They do not want the bid sheet. It means they have to run what is essentially an ETB with seniority. They can control the ETB without seniority. They cannot with an ETB with seniority.
They refuse to automate the bid sheet (they really wish to control who goes into which trip). They want to neuter seniority. They want to control who goes where. They want to ensure white girls staff a black team charter, guys staff a gay charter and, well, you fill in the blanks. Unwritten, but evident from past practice. A&W is even worse.
You sound very competent. When you get twenty five years seniority, would you want to be denied a choice trip by someone with two years seniority, who massages the CEO? or assigned a dog trip when someone junior gets the choice time over you?
Choose what you want now, you will own that direction for your career.
Explain to me how YOU think we can help them and WE can move forward on it. Silence, Just what I thought.
USCREW
Veteran
Negotiate and vote on it. How would you help the seniors and their retirement? The same way right?
Since you seem to need enlightenment on this. I would say it could be some BH's and also rsv's hoping to get off of rsv, possibly with Pref. Bid,which(never happened), which they all said would create more blocks in the system, allowing more rsv's to hold blocks. I would bet money that if rsv's new that pref bid was never going to get emplemented, the vote might have been alot different. See, the difference is, you go into every month, knowing you will or can get a full paycheck. I'm curious, what's your senoirity? Mine is 1989, just so you would know.
USCREW
Veteran
I'm senior to you. I got my first block in 1989.
The difference being the other airlines all lost the retirement too, but none of them have our stagnant situation with bizarre seniority levels or the longest, most senior, most severe reserve system in the industry.
Where the correlation between reserve and lost retirement is in this instance is escaping me, but if anyone can think of a way to help restore those retirement benefits, let me know, I'll be happy to assist. I'm sad to say that this and the scope clause are the two things that have massacred this group, and both are things nearly impossible to get back. Maybe somehow in a merger, but unlikely.
Back to reserve. There will soon be much more flight attendants and we will not be as overpowered. You're right, we will be here longer, and will be able to control our future. From personal experience I can tell you that while this company has succeeded in raping it's flight attendant group, it's also created an angry, active, and very informed "junior" contingent- let's call it the MDA-LTO generation- that they will have to contend with for some time. They should not expect the apathy and ignorance they are used to.
The concept of being a US Airways flight attendant is about to change quite a bit, and quite soon. I don't imagine our America West counterparts will be too hot on this current uneven system where one half of the group is disproportionaly punished in order to preserve an industry oddity that is beneficial to only half of the group. The game and the group has changed- people can either try to support thier own agenda or work for everyone.
Where the correlation between reserve and lost retirement is in this instance is escaping me, but if anyone can think of a way to help restore those retirement benefits, let me know, I'll be happy to assist. I'm sad to say that this and the scope clause are the two things that have massacred this group, and both are things nearly impossible to get back. Maybe somehow in a merger, but unlikely.
Back to reserve. There will soon be much more flight attendants and we will not be as overpowered. You're right, we will be here longer, and will be able to control our future. From personal experience I can tell you that while this company has succeeded in raping it's flight attendant group, it's also created an angry, active, and very informed "junior" contingent- let's call it the MDA-LTO generation- that they will have to contend with for some time. They should not expect the apathy and ignorance they are used to.
The concept of being a US Airways flight attendant is about to change quite a bit, and quite soon. I don't imagine our America West counterparts will be too hot on this current uneven system where one half of the group is disproportionaly punished in order to preserve an industry oddity that is beneficial to only half of the group. The game and the group has changed- people can either try to support thier own agenda or work for everyone.
Bid difference here. I, someday am going to be one of those senoir people. Most of the senoir people we have, have never suffered like what is going on now. However, when I am senoir, I will still not want anyone coming up behind me to suffer, especially at my expense.
That explains alot to us why you are the way you are. I guess it's good to be you.
USCREW
Veteran
I will always vote in the best interest of all flight attendants. I guess you're wanting to hold something against me or SKY HIGH or any BH regardless of what I say.
Precisely. I would not want to force this upon anyone else. With our proposed new hire wages, we will not be able to maintain F/As with these living conditions. The only thing keeping our reserves here now is thier seniority relative to other potential merger partners. I WANT people junior to me. Being bottom seniority for nearly a decade is not the norm in the industry and our blockholders have not experienced this, nor the multiple furloughs, nor the working here for no longevity, frozen pay, LTO and some of the other treats that have been bestowed on us.
Also, selfishly, I'm in the "show me the money" camp. Our contract is high cost to implement with the bid sheet and such. That cost is made up by things like having 8 year flight attendants on the property making $21 an hour, and having flight attendants suffering through this sloppily put together and inhumane reserve system. These are people's lives- people are living this every day. I am willing to give up a whole lot of flexibility for one part of the group to raise our actual pay and make this a somewhat liveable career. Again, I think we'll find our west counterparts more in line with that way of thinking. Find me a 12 year HP F/A who thinks they should lose thier line and be on 24 hour reserve so the top contingent can have the great benefit of the bid sheet.
not really, I know alot of wonderful bh, who actually show compassion for their fellow f/a's, however I also know a ton who could care less. Maybe it evens out? Got to get some sleep, You all have a great night and I'll catch with ya tomorrow. Take care.
sky high states: I was MAKING A POINT. That "was" two years ago, you're alittle LATE.
Anyway, USSnark, said it eloquently: Lose the bid sheet. It will gain you nothing.
only stating opinions
OP
FlightChic
Veteran
- Feb 18, 2007
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #163
If they got rid of the bid sheet, then there would be more lines.
If they got rid of the bid sheet, scheduling would not be on the phone for hours on end calling and filling hundreds of trips that BHs didn't want leaving reserve coverage (for real emergencies) short thereby forcing them to slit trips (which solves their problem for the moment), assign you into your days off even though you had big plans that you had scheduled months in advance, and screwing us over.
It is ridiculous that we have all these open time trips to fill without a name attached. I know it is so all the blockholders can have the flexibility but it isn't fair to us to be on reserve for one or two decades making poverty level wages just so you can have your goddamn flexibility and time.
If I hear one more blockholder complain about being tired because he/she worked 130 hours this month I am going to scream! Try living on $1300 a month and having no flexibility! Here I am lucky to break guarantee! I have only done it twice this year and I have been working just about every day that I have been on duty this summer.
Don't you guys have lots of chances to drop and pick up trips and rearrange your schedule as you like it? Well, I usually get my last choice and if I am really lucky I can find someone to swap days off without screwing up my 6 day limit. It is a pain to even try to switch days off with someone but when you have already scheduled things in advance and you don't get your schedule until a week before, what else are you going to do? I know most of you are living your lives and don't think twice about us reserves but we are here working under these conditions so you can live the "good life".
No other airline does this and it is a f***ed up system that needs to go!
P.S. BTW if you don't believe me go take a look at screen 44 on Catcrew in PHL. There are tons of trips with no one to fill them and they are calling people on their days off right now.
If they got rid of the bid sheet, scheduling would not be on the phone for hours on end calling and filling hundreds of trips that BHs didn't want leaving reserve coverage (for real emergencies) short thereby forcing them to slit trips (which solves their problem for the moment), assign you into your days off even though you had big plans that you had scheduled months in advance, and screwing us over.
It is ridiculous that we have all these open time trips to fill without a name attached. I know it is so all the blockholders can have the flexibility but it isn't fair to us to be on reserve for one or two decades making poverty level wages just so you can have your goddamn flexibility and time.
If I hear one more blockholder complain about being tired because he/she worked 130 hours this month I am going to scream! Try living on $1300 a month and having no flexibility! Here I am lucky to break guarantee! I have only done it twice this year and I have been working just about every day that I have been on duty this summer.
Don't you guys have lots of chances to drop and pick up trips and rearrange your schedule as you like it? Well, I usually get my last choice and if I am really lucky I can find someone to swap days off without screwing up my 6 day limit. It is a pain to even try to switch days off with someone but when you have already scheduled things in advance and you don't get your schedule until a week before, what else are you going to do? I know most of you are living your lives and don't think twice about us reserves but we are here working under these conditions so you can live the "good life".
No other airline does this and it is a f***ed up system that needs to go!
P.S. BTW if you don't believe me go take a look at screen 44 on Catcrew in PHL. There are tons of trips with no one to fill them and they are calling people on their days off right now.
I asked you to quantify this essentially baseless assertion. It takes a little homework, a little messing with figures and I believe you will find that what seems true will be proven false. Just try it.
Take the September lines and try to see how many extra lines you can build. I think you will be surprised at how few extra lines you get.
Splitting trips and spending hours on the phone are a result of operating with below minimum staffing levels and not the bid sheet. Insufficient staffing levels results in a perpetual crisis mode. Also, they are trying to fit a square peg, LTO reserve system, into a round hole, highly adaptive scheduling requirements due, in part, to insufficient staffing.
Having no name attached has little to do with blockholders flexibility. It is simply a company convenience.
There is your problem. Enforcing a cap on flying will give you many more lines than any other method. Reducing an average 100 hour month to 90 hours results in 11 percent more line holders.
Choose your cap carefully. The average will always be less than a well enforced cap. The company should hand out overfly letters just like they hand out underfly letters. Force a running average over several months.
Not like it used to be.
One must touch at least the first day of any originally awarded trip. It the other days touch a weekend/holiday one basically goes on reserve for those days. One must remain legal for the last trip of the month. A cap would reduce abuses for that last.
Do the math and go get changes through the union.
You will find many who agree with you that reserve at US stinks.
Actually, we would build our own blocks. Make 40, 50, 85 hour blocks. Whatever the hell you want. You would not have to put trips on the ETB to drop time. All that time would be put into blocks, actually creating more lines for f/a's.
One of the main problems is the fact that we are one of the only airlines that changes our schedule daily, with less that 24 hours in advance. That should be changed. Again, it comes down to blockholders having too much leeway, at the expense of the rsv's.
One of the main problems is the fact that we are one of the only airlines that changes our schedule daily, with less that 24 hours in advance. That should be changed. Again, it comes down to blockholders having too much leeway, at the expense of the rsv's.
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