AWA ALPA Thread week of 9/21--9/27

[PayParity]

I am a proponent of a policy being followed, but not a windfall that I believe violates ALPA Merger Policy. However, ALPA will not exist much longer at US Airways so the discussion will become moot in the not-to-distant future.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Everyone is supposted to believe you, one that it directly effects, that the Nic award, a supposed "windfall", violates the ALPA Merger Policy, over a held in esteem neutral arbitrator and the actual creator of the Merger Policy who both can't find any fault in the award and say it is fair and just and doesn't violate the ALPA Merger Policy?

Sounds like sour grapes by someone living in fear using empty threats, coercion and intimidation to get what the want. Kinda like a spoiled child.

 

[Bear96]

. . . . USAPA could be the collective bargaining agent for the combined pilot group before joint negotiations are scheduled to be completed.

Really? Did I miss it? The NMB declared single carrier status for East and West?

Got a link?

Otherwise, as surely you must know by now, East can vote in USAPA, but there is no way West would (is there even anyone collecting and soliciting cards on West's behalf for them to have a USAPA vote?), meaning West will remain ALPA. (Note how East and West still have separate MECs, and you are saying that the USAPA vote would be held before joint negotiations.)

Why exactly do you keep spreading this crap? Do you really not comprehend the process, or are you hoping someone even more ignorant than you stumbles on to one of your posts and believes what you are saying?

 

[AWA320]

You know what's really interesting regarding "contracts" and "pay" is today's little announcement regarding the China routes. US East pilots don't have a pay rate for the A340. What the company has proposed in the past is crap. Basically, East pilots should say you want us to fly the A340 then bring us up to parity. This could give a whole new meaning to China Syndrome.

Later,
Eye

Except for one thing there EYE, we are our own worst enemy with this BS unnecessary food fight!! Parker is not at all concerned about this. In true Doug Parker form he will no doubt come to the west and offer the flying which will jumpstart the east into action and get a rate and work rules. Yup he's counting on this to continue as it totally serves his purpose, in fact I am sure while he says he would like to get a contract soon he would much rather get the production he is getting thru your LOA93 and our piss poor contract.

Yeah EYE we're killing ourselves and management reeps the benefits.

And so it goes.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Except for one thing there EYE, we are our own worst enemy with this BS unnecessary food fight!! Parker is not at all concerned about this. In true Doug Parker form he will no doubt come to the west and offer the flying which will jumpstart the east into action and get a rate and work rules. Yup he's counting on this to continue as it totally serves his purpose, in fact I am sure while he says he would like to get a contract soon he would much rather get the production he is getting thru your LOA93 and our piss poor contract.

Yeah EYE we're killing ourselves and management reeps the benefits.

And so it goes.

It would cost Doogie a fortune to open a HP PHL base. Remember it's a "tentative" award -- if there is infighting at the airline the DOT will pull the plug and give it to another carrier. The other thing to consider is that East pilots are really buring a lot of fuel -- I don't think Parker is stupid enough to flame that on -- it's already costing the company more than just coughing up the pay parity. For the gazillionenth time the East pilots seniority cannot be bought. The sooner you guys understand that perhaps everyone can move on.

Later,
Eye

 

[USA320Pilot]

The A340 China service will be flown from CLT to PHL to China. Yup, the Company is going to go out of its way to have the AWA pilots fly this route by deadheading them from PHX to CLT and back to fly the trip or pay money to set up a CLT crew base. That makes a lot of sense - not!

Based on the JNC schedule USAPA has even more time to make sure they win the election. In the mean time the East pilots keep capturing the attrition and obtain pay raises.

767jetz, why do you spend so little time on the UA board and so much time on the US board. One would think you would be more concerned about UA issues than those at US.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[Jetz]

Can the west pilots fly the 340 in PHL? I remember reading something in the TA about shared growth flying; it would be another windfall for them if they are allowed to fly a widebody when there was never any chance for them to do so without the merger.

It would cost Doogie a fortune to open a HP PHL base. Remember it's a "tentative" award -- if there is infighting at the airline the DOT will pull the plug and give it to another carrier. The other thing to consider is that East pilots are really buring a lot of fuel -- I don't think Parker is stupid enough to flame that on -- it's already costing the company more than just coughing up the pay parity. For the gazillionenth time the East pilots seniority cannot be bought. The sooner you guys understand that perhaps everyone can move on.

Later,
Eye

 

[767jetz]

ALPA will not exist much longer at US Airways

Are you sure about that? Wanna bet?

 

[Jetz]

I believe it will be the 767 flying the CLT-PHL segment and the A340 on to China.

I'm all for capturing our attrition, but hold up there cowboy, I want to see what comes out of the JNC as far as pay and protections go before plunging into the unkown. You may be willing to work under 93 for enternity but I'm not so anxious to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet until all options are considered. Why would I not want to see the result of JNC before making the next decision (USAPA), which for me and the rest of us nearing retirement means pretty much status quo until we lay our wings to rest.

The A340 China service will be flown from CLT to PHL to China. Yup, the Company is going to go out of its way to have the AWA pilots fly this route by deadheading them from PHX to CLT and back to fly the trip or pay money to set up a CLT crew base. That makes a lot of sense - not!

Based on the JNC schedule USAPA has even more time to make sure they win the election. In the mean time the East pilots keep capturing the attrition and obtain pay raises.

767jetz, why do you spend so little time on the UA board and so much time on the US board. One would think you would be more concerned about UA issues than those at US.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Jetz,

You’re not going to get a pay raise until the Nicolau Award problem is resolved because more than 50% of the East pilots will not approve a TA. I believe the fastest way to get a pay raise is for the pilots to do NWA pilot type actions or for USAPA to have enough cards to force a card count and an election.

If the government orders an election what do you think the AWA MEC will do? Cut a deal that all parties can live with that will boost your pay and benefits or risk union “impositionâ€￾?

I understand your position, but if you have not already done so, I believe you may want to read this
article.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

This final push and the last furlough recall class event should wrap things up and there will be many more cards submitted than required. Expect the NMB Form 1 to be submitted soon.

But 2 hours ago you wrote this:

Yesterday... Stephen H. Bradford, a US Airways pilot who leads the fledgling US Airline Pilots Association said he expects "to have a majority (of pilots sign Authroization Cards) in a month to six weeks.

And 2 days ago you wrote this:

And, there will be even more news Monday night, which you will be surprised about again.

Now I'm really confused. Is it "soon" or last "Monday" or in "a month to six weeks?" You really are all over the radar with this one. I think the truth is you have no clue.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I am a proponent of a policy being followed, but not a windfall that I believe violates ALPA Merger Policy. However, ALPA will not exist much longer at US Airways so the discussion will become moot in the not-to-distant future.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Unfortunately, your self serving reputation supersedes your politically correct non-answer. If you were a water boy at my Union, I’d demand your recall/expulsion.

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[767jetz]

If the government orders an election what do you think the AWA MEC will do? Cut a deal that all parties can live with that will boost your pay and benefits or risk union “impositionâ€￾?

I'll take answer "B." No matter how many times you repeat yourself, you can not change the fact that no one is afraid of "imposition." The reasons have been listed for you by me and many others but you fail to accept it, and there is no need to rehash it again. So there is no perceived risk and no deal outside of the JNC will materialize. End of story.

Jetz is correct to in his understanding that he can wait to see what the JNC brings. If it is not palatable, then he can can decide for himself if he wants the uncertainty of USAPA. You are trying to persuade people to make a hasty and uninformed decision based on emotion rather than fact.

 

[Jetz]

I have sent my card in based on what the folks I fly with are telling me is the road to overturning the seniority award, but that was before ALPA decided there is nothing they can do. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but it seems to me I/we only have a few options at this point. I hope we focus on an agreement that has protections for our junior pilots and not dilly dally around with lawyers and court nonsense. I will continue to support the cause but don't ask me to starve the cow to save the sheep.

Jetz,

You’re not going to get a pay raise until the Nicolau Award problem is resolved because more than 50% of the East pilots will not approve a TA. I believe the fastest way to get a pay raise is for the pilots to do NWA pilot type actions or for USAPA to have enough cards to force a card count and an election.

If the government orders an election what do you think the AWA MEC will do? Cut a deal that all parties can live with that will boost your pay and benefits or risk union “impositionâ€￾?

I understand your position, but if you have not already done so, I believe you may want to read this
article.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

The A340 China service will be flown from CLT to PHL to China. Yup, the Company is going to go out of its way to have the AWA pilots fly this route by deadheading them from PHX to CLT and back to fly the trip or pay money to set up a CLT crew base. That makes a lot of sense - not!

Shows how little you actually know. First of all, since it is only the PHL to China portion that would be flown by the 340, the company only has to DH a crew from PHX to PHL. And for your information that is exactly what UAL has been doing all summer to cover their China flying from IAD. Part of the TA that we turned down earlier this year would have allowed the company extended caps and flexibility to fly the route with IAD pilots and allow for training of more crews. When the TA failed the company went to plan "B" and builds ID's with a DH on both ends, or offers some TDY. It worked very well for the busy summer months and was basically cost neutral.

So the 340 could easily and effectively be flown by PHX crews.

767jetz, why do you spend so little time on the UA board and so much time on the US board.

Because thanks to you and your MEC, this is where all the excitement (turmoil) is. You create so much material to blow holes in, it keeps us busy straightening out and clarifying your inconsistencies and inaccuracies, so as not to mislead others who actually would like to make informed, ACCURATE, decisions. This integration is important to every airline pilot. It will affect the entire industry, which is why other ALPA MEC's have been closely watching and have been in touch regularly with the ALPA EC, much to your chagrin. Like it or not, we are ALL involved. So you can save the bandwidth trying to silence your opposition.

I am flattered that you find my comments as well as those of Bear96, Junebug, and may others to be so threatening to you. Considering their track record and yours, I am happy to be in their company.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Tiger 1050,

You need to only look for your answers by looking at your MEC's GREED.

I did not pose any questions...

Yes, the GREED killed the golden goose.

What greed do you speak of? Are you suggesting that the award that Chairman Nicolau and the two pilot neutrals came up with is filled with AWA greed? I didn't know the AWA MEC had that kind of influence on the arbitration board? Wow!

Instead of waiting for the golden goose's eggs to fall into the hands of the Westies.
The AWA MEC grabbed the goose by the neck and tried to have the goose produce all of it's eggs right now.

Ya know what? We went to the arbitration hearings just as you did. We argued our case just as you did. But if you feel better about yourself by blaming the west then so be it...

AWA's Greed produced USAPA with some help from ALPA National.

AWA's greed produced pickleball?!?!?!? Cool!!!!!!

It sucks but it is what it is.

Yes it does suck. Too bad you guys can't honor your word. In the end it will not matter though. We will get through this...