AWA ALPA thread 10/26-11/1

[Hawkhunter]

Shucks....I'm naturally fully greatfull that you've "allowed" me anything at all

"what makes you think you are ENTITLED to anything" I dunno, perhaps several times your flight time and work experience...not that such counts for anything within your perspective, as I do certainly realize.

If you'll be so very kind as to explain WTF it is that you're currently braying about...? I honestly don't have the slightest clue here. 77 east retirements?..Within what time period are we talking here? Five years? = Hardly any realistic sum for that period of time. Are you perhaps, also considering the announcments regarding additional international flying, evidently to be based out east? Sigh...I can imagine that must be a wee bit frustrating for you.

As per the imaginary, plastic-fantastic, instantly wonderful, to be had yesterday "contract"....I'm still seeing NOTHING whatsoever that provides the tiniest inkling that supports your notions in any way. Mangement's stated that they're not going to toss a buncha' cash on the table, other than essentially parity for the east and 3-4% gain for the west. How that would get anyone out west excited's beyond me...without any instant St Nic visit that is. How that would serve as any source of joy to anyone out east is equally beyond me. Upper management's stated that there is no feeling that the east would vote in any contract with Nic's poison included...perhaps you feel that you fully know better.

PS: Aren't you overdue for some session of calling us all "sheep" out east?, and/or assuring yourself, via your own postings, that we'll all just merrilly cave into the Nic bit for a few coins?
I'm almost starting to miss all the childish and gleefully spoken "Practice Cactus"/"It's OVER!!"/"Binding arbitration!!"/and all the vast rivers of such stuff, that was so respectfull and considerate, constantly flowing from your side all this time. All the recent whining's just tiresome, and frankly,...pathetic.

I love it!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

ONLY 77 VACANCIES ON THE EAST NEXT YEAR, WHERE IS ALL THAT ATTRITION THEY CLAIM?? THE ARB PANEL SAW THE SAME THING, EAST PILOTS ATTEMPTING TO MAKE UP FOR THEIR LOSSES AT THE EXPENSE OF AWA PILOTS CAREERS!!!

That's very interesting. I guess the "liars figure and figures lie" adage is alive and well. Your data is wrong. But who am I to argue with such self proclaimed experts?

 

[AWA320]

Shucks....I'm naturally fully greatfull that you've "allowed" me anything at all

"what makes you think you are ENTITLED to anything" I dunno, perhaps several times your flight time and work experience...not that such counts for anything within your perspective, as I do certainly realize.

Ok so there it is then, you feel that since you put in time with your old company that doesn't exist any longer mind you that you are entitled to way more than you bring?? GMAFB please!!! Here's a clue East, AAA doesn't exist any more neither does AWA only LCC new company with old name ONLY!! You are entitled to nothing more that you got!!!

If you'll be so very kind as to explain WTF it is that you're currently braying about...? I honestly don't have the slightest clue here. 77 east retirements?..Within what time period are we talking here? Five years? = Hardly any realistic sum for that period of time. Are you perhaps, also considering the announcments regarding additional international flying, evidently to be based out east? Sigh...I can imagine that must be a wee bit frustrating for you.

I see you can't read either, maybe a testament to your needing to retire soon!! The east has only 77 retirements in all of 2008 which is a far cry for the 200 plus that you side said it had within the same time period!! I guess somebody forgot to tell the company about all of those extra retirements huh East??? Now additional flying is to be shared be it in the east or west or did you forget that little tid bit also?? Theft at every turn by you east folk has become common place I see.

As per the imaginary, plastic-fantastic, instantly wonderful, to be had yesterday "contract"....I'm still seeing NOTHING whatsoever that provides the tiniest inkling that supports your notions in any way. Mangement's stated that they're not going to toss a buncha' cash on the table, other than essentially parity for the east and 3-4% gain for the west. How that would get anyone out west excited's beyond me...without any instant St Nic visit that is. How that would serve as any source of joy to anyone out east is equally beyond me. Upper management's stated that there is no feeling that the east would vote in any contract with Nic's poison included...perhaps you feel that you fully know better.

What the company does in that sense is entirely up to them! How you respond is another matter all together! St nic, the gift or what ever cute little name you theives come up with is just fine by all of us. I really don't care if you want to be in that bankrupt contract for the remainder of you career or not! That is up to you but what you will not do is steal from us and expect to get away with it!!! Now if you don't want to get to the tables and get the contract that we all deserve fine, your choice. The company will keep recording record profits at our expense and we will just keep cashing those profit sharing checks instead, again YOUR choice.

PS: Aren't you overdue for some session of calling us all "sheep" out east?, and/or assuring yourself, via your own postings, that we'll all just merrilly cave into the Nic bit for a few coins?
I'm almost starting to miss all the childish and gleefully spoken "Practice Cactus"/"It's OVER!!"/"Binding arbitration!!"/and all the vast rivers of such stuff, that was so respectfull and considerate, constantly flowing from your side all this time. All the recent whining's just tiresome, and frankly,...pathetic.

We are way beyond that point now east as your games have become annoying! You keep thinking that you can just vote your way out of the award and nothing can be further from the truth. You waste precious time and money on usless antics that in the end will come back to haunt you. I know you had these hauntings throughout your career but one would think that you would have learned by now, I see you still haven't!!! Tell me, how do you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and not learn from them??

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Tell me, how do you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and not learn from them??

We have learned from the same ALPA mistakes. That's why we are working hard to see ALPA removed once and for all.

 

[AWA320]

That's very interesting. I guess the "liars figure and figures lie" adage is alive and well. Your data is wrong. But who am I to argue with such self proclaimed experts?

Really?? Well prove it wrong. I am betting you can't but you go for it anyway. 77 active pilot retirements in all of 08 in the east is all you got. Medical, LTD, F/O retirements don't create left seat vacancies AAA73 so you go right ahead and try and prove the data wrong. This should be really good...

 

[AWA320]

We have learned from the same ALPA mistakes. That's why we are working hard to see ALPA removed once and for all.

Good luck with that by the way, I'm told by my east insiders that you are way short on your count but you file anyway because constant butt kickings is something that you just have to keep experiencing. Maybe one day you all will wake up and catch the clue.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Good luck with that by the way, I'm told by my east insiders that you are way short on your count ...........

Believe what you will. Insiders? From ALPA? Now that is funny. From previous posted statements your incredible naiveté about USAPA tells me you have no clue yourself of the true story. Isn't propaganda great? From both sides!!

 

[EastUS]

We are way beyond that point now east as your games have become annoying! You keep thinking that you can just vote your way out of the award and nothing can be further from the truth. You waste precious time and money on usless antics that in the end will come back to haunt you. I know you had these hauntings throughout your career but one would think that you would have learned by now, I see you still haven't!!! Tell me, how do you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and not learn from them??

"Ok so there it is then, you feel that since you put in time with your old company that doesn't exist any longer mind you that you are entitled to way more than you bring?? GMAFB please!!! Here's a clue East, AAA doesn't exist any more neither does AWA only LCC new company with old name ONLY!! You are entitled to nothing more that you got!!!"

I've no complaints about my personal situation, with or without Nic. It's those of "mine" that would have their careers obliterated that concern me. A small observation about your above statement though, especially since you note that neither previous airline exists = Exactly what did any AWA actually "bring" to this fiasco besides their personal tushes? None of you had zip to do with any of the corporate shuffling that produced this, nor can any of you advance your positon based upon ANYTHING other than one gentleman's coin tossing via "arbitration". Years of service and/or experience mean nothing to you it seems....except for your own of course. The sad fact's that said vast "experience" would largely just get you laughed out of any east discussions.

"I see you can't read either, maybe a testament to your needing to retire soon!!" Eh?...kindly speak up sonny...I'm gettin' hard of hearing too

As per the imaginary, plastic-fantastic, instantly wonderful, to be had yesterday "contract"....I'm still seeing NOTHING whatsoever that provides the tiniest inkling that supports your notions in any way. Mangement's stated that they're not going to toss a buncha' cash on the table, other than essentially parity for the east and 3-4% gain for the west. How that would get anyone out west excited's beyond me...without any instant St Nic visit that is. How that would serve as any source of joy to anyone out east is equally beyond me. Upper management's stated that there is no feeling that the east would vote in any contract with Nic's poison included...perhaps you feel that you fully know better.

"What the company does in that sense is entirely up to them! How you respond is another matter all together! St nic, the gift or what ever cute little name you theives come up with is just fine by all of us. I really don't care if you want to be in that bankrupt contract for the remainder of you career or not! That is up to you but what you will not do is steal from us and expect to get away with it!!! Now if you don't want to get to the tables and get the contract that we all deserve fine, your choice. The company will keep recording record profits at our expense and we will just keep cashing those profit sharing checks instead, again YOUR choice."

I believe that I see above what amounts to a tacit admission that no contract's possible without east approval...but I do seem to have difficulty reading, as you've so kindly noted

"...but what you will not do is steal from us and expect to get away with it!!!" Hmm...how's that fit in with your braying about getting the profit sharing again? As per any "get away with it"...take your best shot, which you guys have, and it just doesnt' seem to amount to much...does it? Of course, I'm still cringing in fear from your threats of personal lawsuits, and am naturally sufferring complete personal devastation from the never ending stream of childish insults

Perhaps it's finally time for some out west to get off their once arrogant, now just plain whiney, "Righteous Position" high horses, start to actually THINK, and begin working out something acceptable to both sides. I don't look for anything of that sort to happen soon, nor with the enlightened input from Alpo 'helping" in any way.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Did USAPA send their cards to the NMB today? They did say they would file by the end of October... Did they not?

Doesn't look too good for them if they fail to meet their own deadline... Time to put up or shut up guys. Your credibility seems to be fading. But that is only my personal opinion...

 

[EastUS]

Did USAPA send their cards to the NMB today? They did say they would file by the end of October... Did they not?

Doesn't look too good for them if they fail to meet their own deadline... Time to put up or shut up guys. Your credibility seems to be fading. But that is only my personal opinion...

" But that is only my personal opinion..." Yup, sure is, and you're not out here sir

 

[Tiger 1050]

Not trying to argue with you EastUS just asking a question while adding one's opinion?

So did you send in your cards today or not?

And I do think it is fair to make such an assumption, don't you? It may be uninformed but so far USAPA has amounted to nothing more than rhetoric... At least from an outsiders view.

See ya around...

 

[Mike]

Really?? Well prove it wrong. I am betting you can't but you go for it anyway. 77 active pilot retirements in all of 08 in the east is all you got. Medical, LTD, F/O retirements don't create left seat vacancies AAA73 so you go right ahead and try and prove the data wrong. This should be really good...

True...... but 77 F/O's get off Reserve to Block Holder. (Raise) 77 F/O's can move up to higher paying Eq. ie 767 or A330 (Raise)

 

[AWA320]

Perhaps it's finally time for some out west to get off their once arrogant, now just plain whiney, "Righteous Position" high horses, start to actually THINK, and begin working out something acceptable to both sides.

We did that already my man, it's called ARBITRATION maybe you've heard, it was over back in May. Arrogant?? now that's just plain funny no two ways about it East just plain funny!! 77 active capt retirements in 08 please explain?

 

[AWA320]

True...... but 77 F/O's get off Reserve to Block Holder. (Raise) 77 F/O's can move up to higher paying Eq. ie 767 or A330 (Raise)

Mike they still don't create capt vacancies!!! You can have 500 f/o retirements and not one of them will create a left seat slot yes or no Mike??????

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Really?? Well prove it wrong. I am betting you can't but you go for it anyway. 77 active pilot retirements in all of 08 in the east is all you got. Medical, LTD, F/O retirements don't create left seat vacancies AAA73 so you go right ahead and try and prove the data wrong. This should be really good...

Obviously you feel you have better information than I do. So I will work with what I have.

On bid 08-01 there are 60 Caps. identified as being within 12 months of retirement. They are not identified as being out on LTD, med etc. However, they still hold a Cap. position as being active. So your term "active" is the key. It still takes an active body working the line.

The bottom seniority number is 3553, the company says it needs 2691 to fly the schedule. The discrepancy comes from not counting all the pilots. Adding check airman and management pilot retirements to the mix, which are not identified on bid 08-01, (I know there are Ck. air. retirements next year, don't know the exact figure, they will have to be replaced.) thereby removing pilots from the "active" list like bid 08-01 to the ck. air. list. Creating move-up for the F/O's as replacements to and for the active Cap. list. Plus the additional training float.

I still stand by my statement that your 77 attrition based move-up positions for the entire year is incorrect. Based on my interpretation for the Jan. Feb. time frame of 08-01 alone. Now considering the exclusion of the F/O retirements, many that you want to exclude come from the wide body group. Why discount the move-up from narrow body to wide body? The jump in pay is worth it. And should not be discounted since the International 330 pay is comparable to narrow body Cap (hence you have very senior F/O's who could be Cap) and far above the 190 Cap pay rate.

It's still a combination of everything that brings me to the conclusion that your absolutes are based on propaganda and spin.