ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[EastUS]

Fact Leonidas: Doug M. will not be on the negotiating advisory committee. His quote: "I think we need fresh faces on the committee". As for the rest of the post written by Tom S. it is complete and total BS. So for you its a fact, for me its FUD.

BTW. Nice try again. Your reliance on East ALPA shills for your source of "Facts" and "information" just shows how gullible you are. Maybe if you hang around these gentleman reps for a while you will know what I mean.

I've long since given up trying to explain or contest "the facts", versus the FUD. The proverbial Brick Wall out there would be more receptive. Perhaps it's best to just seriously encourage West interactions with those people to the maximum extent possible. Some out west might need "ocean-front property with a great view...at low tide" or a "Classic Bridge..available to only the most discerning buyers....in Brooklyn...cash only". The irony's truly astonishing though, in that, while phase one of the west "assault" dealt only with exulting with such classics as "Booshaka!!"/It's OVER!!/Final and Binding!!"/etc; phase two went to: "It's ALL the fault of the east pilots!!/you guys elected your reps/you're all just a bunch of whiners/sheep/etc"...while phase three now seems preoccupied with imagining that the very same East-Alpoid shills that "led" us like "sheep" into all our "self-inflicted misery"..are magically now the font of all wisdom, and fully reputable sources for all things Alpoid.....which the west posters now instantly, and eagerly embrace as pure gospel. Naturally, whenever any/all of us raise the BS Flag against "their" newly discovered "wise men"...it's all "lies" and we have no "facts". In truth? = It's almost surreal to see it happening.......

 

[Leonidas]

Fact Leonidas: Doug M. will not be on the negotiating advisory committee. His quote: "I think we need fresh faces on the committee". As for the rest of the post written by Tom S. it is complete and total BS. So for you its a fact, for me its FUD.

BTW. Nice try again. Your reliance on East ALPA shills for your source of "Facts" and "information" just shows how gullible you are. Maybe if you hang around these gentleman reps for a while you will know what I mean.

Well that must be new, usapa had Doug M. as their negotiating chairman, what happen, falling out already?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Master Po: I try and try, yet; I do not yet understand this wisdom....I study the FUD and meditate for days and nights....and yet I fear that I will never gain understanding of the great mystery of the "process", and am destined to never truly know the ways of Alpo.. :blink: With your blessings...I shall take a pilgrimage, for only in the West and within the Halls of Herndon are there men with the enlightened awareness that any one man's single year is worth more than twenty of another's life..and I fear that I shall remain troubled and confused without their spiritual guidance.

The church of ALPA and the Prophet Prater will lead you to enlightenment my son. We will expect your donation by the 5th of each month.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I've long since given up trying to explain or contest "the facts", versus the FUD. The proverbial Brick Wall out there would be more receptive. Perhaps it's best to just seriously encourage West interactions with those people to the maximum extent possible. Some out west might need "ocean-front property with a great view...at low tide" or a "Classic Bridge..available to only the most discerning buyers....in Brooklyn...cash only". The irony's truly astonishing though, in that, while phase one of the west "assault" dealt only with exulting with such classics as "Booshaka!!"/It's OVER!!/Final and Binding!!"/etc; phase two went to: "It's ALL the fault of the east pilots!!/you guys elected your reps/you're all just a bunch of whiners/sheep/etc"...while phase three now seems preoccupied with imagining that the very same East-Alpoid shills that "led" us like "sheep" into all our "self-inflicted misery"..are magically now the font of all wisdom, and fully reputable sources for all things Alpoid.....which the west posters now instantly, and eagerly embrace as pure gospel. Naturally, whenever any/all of us raise the BS Flag against "their" newly discovered "wise men"...it's all "lies" and we have no "facts". In truth? = It's almost surreal to see it happening.......

No better words could be said.

 

[Leonidas]

4. Communications: Seeham ousted at United

The Teamsters won the United mechanics election today (as expected). The mechanics had previously been represented by AMFA, a mechanics union that Lee Seham represents. AMFA replaced the IAM in 2003 or 2004 and was entirely unsuccessful (at least in the eyes of the mechanics) and has now been replaced.

-Tania Bziukiewicz, Communications Chairman

 

[EastUS]

The church of ALPA and the Prophet Prater will lead you to enlightenment my son. We will expect your donation by the 5th of each month.

But..but...Your Grace!!..I've sacrificed my pension, my wages, my work rules, and most of my crops for the Faith allready! I tithe without fail...is there yet no dispensation? Aww He!!..Here!....take my loose change and the East's seniority as well.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Well that must be new, usapa had Doug M. as their negotiating chairman, what happen, falling out already?

For me it's not new. What makes you look foolish is your reliance on East ALPA shills spreading their own brand of FUD. No falling out, as much as you would like to believe it. Like Doug M. said and you completely overlooked was the "Need for fresh faces" and I'll add new ideas.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

But..but...Your Grace!!..I've sacrificed my pension, my wages, my work rules, and most of my crops for the Faith allready! I tithe without fail...is there yet no dispensation? Aww He!!..Here!....take my loose change and the East's seniority as well.

You are deemed worthy to continue receiving the written word from your "Concerned" brothers. May their combined wisdom and flight pay loss bring you peace as you seek more needed guidance.

 

[EastUS]

For me it's not new. What makes you look foolish is your reliance on East ALPA shills spreading their own brand of FUD.

Pretty much so. For the west folks; these guys blatherings are apparently "new". For us? = It's "You gotta' be seriously kidding" .."we've heard this basic brand of BS forever"....

"You are deemed worthy to continue receiving the written word from your "Concerned" brothers. May their combined wisdom and flight pay loss bring you peace as you seek more needed guidance." Whew!...A good thing. Just think of how many magazines and junk-mailings I'd have to sign up for, just in order to keep my mailbox stuffed otherwise

 

[Leonidas]

"The fact is that ALPA National, looking to solve the separate operations problem, has already balked at America West's request to enter into their own Section 6 negotiations. ALPA will not support contract negotiations leading to separate agreements and therefore may prevent the US Airways pilots from entering into Section 6 negotiations for a January 1, 2010 contract. Further, the Company has refused to negotiate separately which again puts any Section 6 negotiations into serious doubt.

USAPA will remove all impediments to contract negotiations, and using professional negotiators, will promptly enter into negotiations with management for a quality contract."

So is this usapa update true? Funny awa and management have entered negotiations. I guess we know who really is spreading fud don't we.

 

[EastUS]

AMFA replaced the IAM in 2003 or 2004 and was entirely unsuccessful (at least in the eyes of the mechanics) and has now been replaced.

-Tania Bziukiewicz, Communications Chairman

2003?..or was it 2004? No matter. At least you guys/gals properly insist on employing only the most precise "facts"

Leonidas: "So is this usapa update true? Funny awa and management have entered negotiations. I guess we know who really is spreading fud don't we." Should we check when that update was drafted?..and would plus or minus a year be OK for a measure of acceptable accuracy out west? Seriously though: Good luck with your section 6 efforts. I'd like to see the bar eventually raised for all of us.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

MidAtlantic Lawsuit

Update #2 for Mar 31, 2008

Mike Haber is preparing a memo for the plaintiffs which will answer your concerns and fully explain what the judge's ruling really means. I have been reading the web board comments and I see that most people understand the significance of this ruling but there are a few who see this as defeat. If you are viewing this as defeat then you do not understand what has happened.

Ladies and gentlemen: We have just won our DFR lawsuit against ALPA. The judge’s ruling is clear and beyond question. I've even received emails of congratulations from Tracy Parrella and Woody Menear. These are people who understand the legal system and understand what has just happened.

Let me briefly explain what has happened and leave the rest up to Haber:

We went to court to argue against ALPA's motion to dismiss and to get authority to add damages to our lawsuit for the Nicolau Award. Personally, I never expected to succeed with the Nicolau damage claim but we did. ALPA argued that we knew that they had screwed MDA pilots for longer than 6 months before the lawsuit was filed. They provided the 2002 restructuring agreement as evidence. We all know that they are full of crap but the evidence provided to the judge left her short of being convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.

She ruled that the portions of the suit affected by the statute of limitations claim must be dismissed. But this judge is smarter than all of ALPA put together. The judge knew and stated in her ruling that ALPA was guilty of breach in their duty to fairly represent the MDA pilots.

She then opened the door and gave us a huge bonus. She granted the amendment to add damages based on the Nicolau Award AND she put ALPA on notice that they breached their DFR. Basically, ALPA now has a DFR lawsuit on their hands that they already lost as long as Haber can keep the technical legalities (like statute of limitations) aside. If the case is heard on its merits (and it will be) then we have already won.

For those who think that the other issues are dead - guess again. Those issues are the reason a flawed seniority list even existed in the first place. Those issues are very much still alive and will be presented in our DFR case. We will go to court to sue for damages based on the seniority integration that left MDA pilots out. But, the reason that that happen is due to ALPA's failure to protect the MDA pilots as mainline USAirways pilots and provide recall benefit. Everything is related. It's the same issues by a different name. The big difference is that we NOW know how the judge feels about what ALPA did to us.

I guarantee ALPA is taking a crap over this. They have a much bigger problem then they did before. They will be found guilty of DFR if they go to court.

Some have argued that if USAPA wins then the MDA pilots will get the proper seniority integration anyway and that the case will fall apart because there is no damage. I have asked Mike Haber to explain the monetary damage regardless of who wins the election. You will be surprised to learn that the expected dollar amount per pilot is now higher than ever before and does not get impacted by the election.

I know that a few of you said you would never settle for less than $1 million per pilots. But the results of the vote were that an offer of $100,000 per pilots plus legal fees would go to the plaintiffs for a vote. I think this is far more likely of what we can expect based on this latest development. And don't forget, a settlement of this type would only be $28 million dollars. This is what I expect and it is what I always have expected. Those who know me or have read any of my postings know that the $1.2 billion was never attainable. I expect $100,000 apiece plus our legal fees reimbursed. Any offer to settle for that amount or more will then go to vote. Anything short of that will proceed to litigation. And the judge has already ruled that ALPA is guilty.

So, I hope this short explanation allows you to sleep better. We are in a better situation than we have ever been with this DFR suit even though the complaints were dismissed due to the statute. This judge just did us all a favor. She knew ALPA would prevail at litigation due to the statute of limitations so she fixed the problem right now and is allowing us to amend the lawsuit and proceed to litigation with a better than excellent chance for success.

I will forward the memo from Haber as soon as I receive it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

"The fact is that ALPA National, looking to solve the separate operations problem, has already balked at America West's request to enter into their own Section 6 negotiations. ALPA will not support contract negotiations leading to separate agreements and therefore may prevent the US Airways pilots from entering into Section 6 negotiations for a January 1, 2010 contract. Further, the Company has refused to negotiate separately which again puts any Section 6 negotiations into serious doubt.

USAPA will remove all impediments to contract negotiations, and using professional negotiators, will promptly enter into negotiations with management for a quality contract."

So is this usapa update true? Funny awa and management have entered negotiations. I guess we know who really is spreading fud don't we.

The update was published and is outside my knowledge base at this time. As for your negotiations, your scheduled to talk when? The 14th? We'll wait and see if that happens.

Methinks the church of ALPA is going to deem your brethren unworthy and bestow upon you new and enlightened disciples from Herndon to set you on the true and correct path. Especially if the all mighty church should prevail on the 17th.

I would reread the MDA update just published. You think Nic will stand while ALPA is looking at a major settlement? I think not. What was the reasons that the award can be thrown out again? Something about fraud and........... But I digress. I can see it now. The law of diminishing returns coming into play here.

 

[nostradamus]

The people that took pension and medical benefits from widows, click here

They want you to vote for them, but they will not let you vote for you. alpa at its best. If you have not voted yet, vote USAPA be part of history.

 

[nostradamus]

alpa blinked when usairways made a threat. Their question was the widows or you, alpa chose, that is how they will "protect" all alpa pilots when they die.

"US Airways has said repeatedly that unless it sheds its obligations to the more than 7,000 pilots, retired pilots and pilots' widows covered by its pension plan, it is unlikely to survive."



Click here for managements threat to alpa