ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5

[EastUS]

I would reread the MDA update just published. You think Nic will stand while ALPA is looking at a major settlement? I think not. What was the reasons that the award can be thrown out again? Something about fraud and........... But I digress. I can see it now. The law of diminishing returns coming into play here.

I'll guess that they've no immediate plans in place, and are barely starting to really react via: "Holy Liabilities Praterboy!..we've gotta' figure out how best to cover our arses, and minimize eventual payments!". They'll have to take their best guesses at what types of games they can play out west, and what liabilities might eventually arise from the AWA group as well. It goes without saying that if they could find some way to "dispose" of Nic/the MDA complaint therein, and yet not be hit hard by the west..well/etc. One method that might be tried is what you suggest above, via sending in the Herndon Holy Hoard..but..we'll see. I'd say all bets about their "best" strategy are off at the present time, and that it'll take 'em some time to respond. Much Harrumphing's soon to be performed in any case.

Ummm..what I naturally meant to say is that they'll be diligently, and tirelessly working purely on behalf of all the line pilots everywhere, and will do nothing other than what's Righteous for all of us..regardless of any needed sacrifices at Herndon.

I think that one of the saddest, and most pathetic things about the current scenario is that some people out west seem to honestly believe that Alpa's actions will, in ANY way, actually be motivated by some sense of what's moral, or "Righteous"

It'll hopefully all be moot on the 17th.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ummm..what I naturally meant to say is that they'll be diligently, and tirelessly working purely on behalf of all the line pilots everywhere, and will do nothing other than what's Righteous for all of us..regardless of any needed sacrifices at Herndon.

It'll hopefully all be moot on the 17th.

Don't forget the 2 p.m. part

I would imagine the damage control parties will be spending some sleepless nights in the near future. Very interesting indeed.

 

[nostradamus]

The people that took pension and medical benefits from widows, click here

They want you to vote for them, but they will not let you vote for you. alpa at its best. If you have not voted yet, vote USAPA be part of history.

The widows stolen pension and medical benefits will be blamed on East pilots.

Hypothetical and hypo pathetic questions and answers from alpa.



How did the alpa represented usairways pilots widows loose their pensions and medical benefits?

We, alpa national have concluded it was the East pilots alpa's fault.

How can you now claim that alpa will protect East alpa pilots widows and family?

Vote for us, we will take care of you, trust us.

Do you guys sleep well at night?

Yes alpa national takes care of us. We take credit for the good things and blame the local unions when the bad things happen.
Bada bing, bada boom, you got a problem with that?

 

[Leonidas]

FYI:

You clowns are to funny, so did you get your $1.3b? No? oh that's right you didn't, you lost. So you are filing a new lawsuit, based on facts the the alpa attorneys never even answered, the judge has half the story, and her comments are based on that half, again don't let the facts interfere with your delusion.

 

[EastUS]

You clowns are to funny, so did you get your $1.3b? No? oh that's right you didn't, you lost. So you are filing a new lawsuit, based on facts the the alpa attorneys never even answered, the judge has half the story, and her comments are based on that half, again don't let the facts interfere with your delusion.

Aww..Nuts!! All our "delusions" busted once again...sigh. OK. I'm curious sir: How's it actually going to go in the end? I'm tired of constantly struggling with painfull delusions and being so entirely unrealistic, so...just tell us what will happen...please? It's terrible living in this confused state of mind, and I just want to know!! Alpa clearly has the judge right in their pocket...and...I, well...I do know that it's totally hopeless. Just kindly put our delusions and all of us out of our sad misery and tell us what will actually happen. :blink: It's obvious that you know...so please be kind and tell us all.

What are the true FACTS here? I mean other than "You won't even get 200 cards!!" and those sorts of "facts" of course

Seriously; I woudn't ever dream of questioning your credibility..so just tell us the outcome.

From the presiding Judge:

""It is also difficult to understand defendants' causation argument that, even if plaintiffs had been designated as active on the seniority list submitted to the arbitrator, their positions on the integrated list would not have been affected. In the Award, the arbitrator made clear that the integrated list merged active US Airways pilots with active America West pilots, but that 'merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria.' . . .
"Accepting [plaintiffs'] allegations as true, and reading the Proposed Supplemental Complaint in the manner most favorable to plaintiffs, plaintiff have adequately alleged that their injuries were caused by the defendants' knowing stipulation to introduce an erroneous seniority list that they knew would adversely affect the careers and employment rights of their represented members. Plaintiffs' motion for leave to file a supplemental complaint is therefore granted."

Yessir! Alpa's clearly got 'em on the run there. I do see your point.

"The Amended Complaint makes clear that plaintiffs knew or reasonably should have known as early as the execution of the 2002 LOA, and no later than the 2004 LOA, that defendants had misrepresented MidAtlantic's corporate form to them and bargained away their rights under the CBA. "

"While plaintiffs did not know definitively whether MidAtlantic was a division -- as the agreement only provided that US Airways 'may' operate MidAtlantic as such -- they knew or reasonably should have known that defendants had rendered what plaintiffs claim was an important bargaining factor into an irrelevant one."

Well..you know?..You're right. It's not over by any means, and the proceedings, against Alpa's/any defendant's normal request for dismissal, will continue. What's most distressing is that I do see that the Court's extremely sympathetic to Alpa in every respect thus far. Sigh..It's a hopelessly lost cause...darn!!

Parting question sir: Do you guys actually have any out there who's vast lexicon of verbally abusive material palpably exceeds the established boundaries of quintessential subtlety via; "you clowns"?..."sheep"?/etc..(little future progress to be made with Goats I'd think)....just curious. In full fairness,...one wonders. "Treat us lahk professhunuls..we're not f--kin' stooopid" For the most part, that, and equally insightfull soundbites from PHX, coupled with the collective postings throughout these threads are all we mainly have to judge from.

 

[Leonidas]

Aww..Nuts!! All our "delusions" busted once again...sigh. OK. I'm curious sir: How's it actually going to go in the end? I'm tired of constantly struggling with painfull delusions and being so entirely unrealistic, so...just tell us what will happen...please? It's terrible living in this confused state of mind, and I just want to know!! Alpa clearly has the judge right in their pocket...and...I, well...I do know that it's totally hopeless. Just kindly put our delusions and all of us out of our sad misery and tell us what will actually happen. :blink: It's obvious that you know...so please be kind and tell us all.

What are the true FACTS here? I mean other than "You won't even get 200 cards!!" and those sorts of "facts" of course

Seriously; I woudn't ever dream of questioning your credibility..so just tell us the outcome.

From the presiding Judge:

""It is also difficult to understand defendants' causation argument that, even if plaintiffs had been designated as active on the seniority list submitted to the arbitrator, their positions on the integrated list would not have been affected. In the Award, the arbitrator made clear that the integrated list merged active US Airways pilots with active America West pilots, but that 'merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria.' . . .
"Accepting [plaintiffs'] allegations as true, and reading the Proposed Supplemental Complaint in the manner most favorable to plaintiffs, plaintiff have adequately alleged that their injuries were caused by the defendants' knowing stipulation to introduce an erroneous seniority list that they knew would adversely affect the careers and employment rights of their represented members. Plaintiffs' motion for leave to file a supplemental complaint is therefore granted."

Yessir! Alpa's clearly got 'em on the run there. I do see your point.

"The Amended Complaint makes clear that plaintiffs knew or reasonably should have known as early as the execution of the 2002 LOA, and no later than the 2004 LOA, that defendants had misrepresented MidAtlantic's corporate form to them and bargained away their rights under the CBA. "

"While plaintiffs did not know definitively whether MidAtlantic was a division -- as the agreement only provided that US Airways 'may' operate MidAtlantic as such -- they knew or reasonably should have known that defendants had rendered what plaintiffs claim was an important bargaining factor into an irrelevant one."

Well..you know?..You're right. It's not over by any means, and the proceedings, against Alpa's/any defendant's normal request for dismissal, will continue. What's most distressing is that I do see that the Court's extremely sympathetic to Alpa in every respect thus far. Sigh..It's a hopelessly lost cause...darn!!

Parting question sir: Do you guys actually have any out there who's vast lexicon of verbally abusive material palpably exceeds the established boundaries of quintessential subtlety via; "you clowns"?..."sheep"?/etc..(little future progress to be made with Goats I'd think)....just curious. In full fairness,...one wonders. "Treat us lahk professhunuls..we're not f--kin' stooopid" For the most part, that, and equally insightfull soundbites from PHX, coupled with the collective postings throughout these threads are all we mainly have to judge from.

I can't make it any clearer for you. did the mda pilots win their lawsuit and did they get any of the 1.3B? yes or no?

"

 

[sharktooth]

I can't make it any clearer for you. did the mda pilots win their lawsuit and did they get any of the 1.3B? yes or no?

"

Your ALPA assessment will be part of the est. 26 million settlement, assuming ALPA stays. No assessment should ALPA be ejected.

Any Section 6 improvement may help off-set your assessments.

 

[luvthe9]

ALPA will likely state that the MDA law suit has been dismissed. Of course, this is not true. The judge did rule that the 6 month statute of limitations does apply to 6 of the complaints filed against ALPA.



However, here comes the GOOD News:



The judge has agreed that ALPA breached its duty to fairly represent the MDA pilots. (But, due to the statute of limitations she has ruled that those 6 portions of the complaint need to be dismissed) However, in her ruling, she opened the door for the lawsuit to be modified in such a way as to sue for damages from ALPA because the “defendants' (ALPA) knowing stipulated to introduce an erroneous seniority list that they knew would adversely affect the careers and employment rights of their represented membersâ€￾. This is important because she approved the Plaintiffs' motion for leave to file a supplemental complaint based on ALPA’s misconduct at the seniority integration arbitration.



THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF USAIRAWYS EAST PILOTS!



The attorney, Michael Haber, will have the amended complaint ready to file in very short order. The judge has already ruled that the 6 month statute of limitations does not impact this amendment and has authorized the complaint to be amended.



The judges exact words are contained here:



"As plaintiffs point out, defendants misunderstand the gravamen of the Proposed Supplemental Complaint. The alleged breach is not about the process or terms of the arbitration award . . . but that the union knew of, and stipulated to, the introduction of an erroneous, previously-corrected seniority list during the arbitration proceedings. To this allegation, defendants have not offered any reason to deny plaintiffs leave....



"It is also difficult to understand defendants' causation argument that, even if plaintiffs had been designated as active on the seniority list submitted to the arbitrator, their positions on the integrated list would not have been affected. In the Award, the arbitrator made clear that the integrated list merged active US Airways pilots with active America West pilots, but that 'merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria.' . . . .



"Accepting [plaintiffs'] allegations as true, and reading the Proposed Supplemental Complaint in the manner most favorable to plaintiffs, plaintiff have adequately alleged that their injuries were caused by the defendants' knowing stipulation to introduce an erroneous seniority list that they knew would adversely affect the careers and employment rights of their represented members. Plaintiffs' motion for leave to file a supplemental complaint is therefore granted."



This ruling by the judge is significant for ALL USAirways pilots. It means that “ALPA’s 's misconduct at the seniority integration arbitration have survived in Federal Court and will be heard.â€￾ – comment by Michael Haber



The seniority integration portion of the Nicolau Award will be heard in COURT! The green light was turned on by the Federal Judge.



It is significant to know that the dismissal portion of her ruling was based on a technicality – statute of limitations. She recognizes this and has ruled in such a way as to give the plaintiffs the vehicle necessary to proceed in the DFR case against ALPA. And proceed they will!



Read this next quote from the judge carefully:



The Amended Complaint makes clear that plaintiffs knew or reasonably should have known as early as the execution of the 2002 LOA, and no later than the 2004 LOA, that defendants had misrepresented MidAtlantic's corporate form to them and bargained away their rights under the CBA. Plaintiffs repeatedly allege that neither US Airways nor defendants informed them that MidAtlantic would not be a separately incorporated entity. However, at the time of the 2002 LOA's execution, plaintiffs had actual notice that the terms of MidAtlantic employment had been negotiated irrespective of MidAtlantic's corporate form....While plaintiffs did not know definitively whether MidAtlantic was a division -- as the agreement only provided that US Airways 'may' operate MidAtlantic as such -- they knew or reasonably should have known that defendants had rendered what plaintiffs claim was an important bargaining factor into an irrelevant one. Plaintiffs allege that MidAtlantic's corporate form was significant because, if MidAtlantic were a division of US Airways, they would have been considered recalled US Airways pilots who were entitled to the terms of the CBA. Plaintiffs were aware of the terms of the 2002 LOA and therefore knew by its execution date that defendants had breached its duty to them by inaccurately representing their interests at the bargaining table....



The law suit will be amended to comply with the judges ruling and the MDA pilots will have their day in court.

 

[Leonidas]

Your ALPA assessment will be part of the est. 26 million settlement, assuming ALPA stays. No assessment should ALPA be ejected.

Any Section 6 improvement may help off-set your assessments.

Really? so show me where the mda pilots got a penny, let alone $26m. Clowns.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I can't make it any clearer for you. did the mda pilots win their lawsuit and did they get any of the 1.3B? yes or no?

Like talking to a child who can't read. Yes and No. Maybe next time you will ask a well thought out lucid question. Trying to sway opinion with gibberish serves no purpose.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Really? so show me where the mda pilots got a penny, let alone $26m. Clowns.

All good things are worth waiting for. The clock is ticking. It would really help in your understanding if you actually read and comprehend the entire post before responding. You call us clowns? I really hope you keep thinking that. I really do.

 

[Leonidas]

Like talking to a child who can't read. Yes and No. Maybe next time you will ask a well thought out lucid question. Trying to sway opinion with gibberish serves no purpose.

Thanks for the CLEAR response. unbelievable

 

[prechilill]

Thanks for the CLEAR response. unbelievable

The MDA pilots got nothing. Their lawsuit is basically dead which is the reason for their proposed new filing.

 

[EastUS]

Really? so show me where the mda pilots got a penny, let alone $26m. Clowns.

Sigh..words just fail me entirely here. :blink: See..here's how it actually works in this country = the case now proceeds untill a settlement or verdict/judgement is achieved. Only at such a conclusive juncture will the MDA pilots "get a penny". Do you understand even the conceptual notion of ongoing litigation?...perhaps a work in progress?...unfinished business?....propitious omens for victory on the horizon?...the opera's not over untill the fat lady sings?...or, in this fairly soon-to-be-heard-from Alpa, by all reasoned thought = "The check's in the mail !!"

Sigh..nevermind good sir. Just continue to skip merrily over any/all unpleasant aspects of adverse reality, bring out the pom poms, and heartilly sound the trumpets of "victory" for Alpo...and naturally: "You won't even get 200 cards"/whatever/etc.

I marvel at the fact that we apparently even live on the same planet.

 

[Leonidas]

All good things are worth waiting for. The clock is ticking. It would really help in your understanding if you actually read and comprehend the entire post before responding. You call us clowns? I really hope you keep thinking that. I really do.

I understand the ruling, I don't think you do, The MDA pilots lost, the judge gave them an "opinion" that they can sue under different statues, based solely on the plaintiffs description of events. So they lost but get to sue under different rules, they haven't won one thing yet.