E
EastUS
Guest
Well..one must be fair sir. Their lawyer's actually sent a letter to the company. It's clearly "all over" now...sigh.
ALPA/USAPA/West thread 3/30-4/5
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
- Status
Well..one must be fair sir. Their lawyer's actually sent a letter to the company. It's clearly "all over" now...sigh.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,513
- Reaction score
- 0
According to you we will just have to wait and see I guess. Personally our legal team is fine with me. But your videos prove nothing. Seham is one of many in the law firm. Besides, I think he did fine considering the childish antics of the audience. I would have left earlier if I was in his shoes.
Better hope the company is afraid also. Then maybe they will settle out too. You sound like an impotent tiger, "We're going to write you a letter"
BTW. Blending USAPA and the company will only give you heartburn. Hmm Does Seham have anything to do with the company? Can't wait to see the you tube broadcast of the company lawyers. AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,513
- Reaction score
- 0
Yep, as one pilot group. In good faith according to the wishes of the majority vote. Lots of voting coming our way in the not too distant future. The only thing I see you have done is attempt to accelerate the process. But in the meantime as one pilot group divided, you can bet Parker is going to take advantage any way he can. Just like what Hemenway said in his letter about imposing LOA93. Unless you have a better plan to protect us/you from that, all I can say is welcome to my world.
Man you really are a piece of work. How bout telling your furors instead of trying to drag us all down any more than you already have, demand them to bring you all up to ours.
You don't get it, we have no intention of burning anything east or west, just usapa.
yeah i'm sure amr pilots or any pilots will want to merge with the east.
E
EastUS
Guest
That's actually "fuehrers" btw, not "furors", and I do rather "suspect" that the poster was merely jesting with you. No matter. It's not the desire of any I've ever spoken with out east to seek out any reduction in wages/quality of life/etc out west. What would be the possible point? We would all obviously gain from raising the bar on both sides of this mess instead.
Again you fail to grasp that you don't get to vote on the awa contract, wich is currently being negotiated btw.
Lots of voting coming our way in the not too distant future. The only thing I see you have done is attempt to accelerate the process. But in the meantime as one pilot group divided, you can bet Parker is going to take advantage any way he can. Just like what Hemenway said in his letter about imposing LOA93. Unless you have a better plan to protect us/you from that, all I can say is welcome to my world.
Well if they impose loa 93, then we are one group united under Nic.
E
EastUS
Guest
So..Which is it? "you don't get to vote on the awa contract"? or "if they impose loa 93"?
The problem you have is how are you going to do that while you are trying to throw 35% of the pilot group under the bus? I saw your posts under pilot unity in the new usapa, I got news for you, there will be none.
That's my point, it can only be one, if you believe loa 93 can be "imposed" on both groups, then the Nic. is in place.
E
EastUS
Guest
"your posts"? I made no such posts as would claim any magical unity under USAPA, just the chance to participate and VOTE. As for pilot unity?..that's entirely up to you folks and I agree that, as things stand, there will be none.
To All:
On Feb. 15th during a trip I happened to visit the DCA crew room and noted five or six pilots sitting around the big table with those handsome yellow lanyards. I wanted one, as I had recently decided that USAPA was the only way to go. One of the gentleman present offered to give me a tie tack as the lanyards were all gone. The following represents some of the issues we discussed at that table on the afternoon of Feb. 15th.
Steve Bradford himself was leading the discussions and informal Q&A that afternoon. I used the opportunity to ask some questions that were still gnawing at me.
I asked Steve who would be in positions of leadership as the new union started. He stated, " I can't tell you that as we have advised our pilots to stay in their ALPA positions and not declare allegiance until later". I said, "So who will be our negotiating committee chairman. Mowrey right?". Steve smiled and said, "well yes, of course". I told him I objected and gave him these reasons;
1. Mowrey refused to negotiate with the company during the summer before BK 2 and thus we ended up with the rush and cram-down.
2. Mowrey was directly responsible for LOA-93 along with his partners the RC-5.
3. Mowrey stated publicly that we would negotiate in bankruptcy, against the advice of all expert opinions the MEC had received.
4. Mowrey has never negotiated anything of value for this pilot group and yet he remains in his position.
Steve Bradford then said the following; " Doug didn't negotiate LOA-93, Butkovic did "!!!! I said that's bull-[content deleted]. Donn wasn't even on the committee. He'd been fired!!" "Nothing happened on that committee that Doug wasn't fully aware of , he was the chairman."
Steve then said, " Doug said, that when he came down one morning and found Donn Butkovic and Jerry Glass at the breakfast table together and they had fleshed out the LOA complete with numbers." "He had nothing to do with it." Maybe Jack Greenhall or Ted Schott did it!! I guess Doug forgot they were with him as well. The infamous "three stooges" of the negotiating world.
I told him that was shear fantasy and decided to move on to another topic.
I asked who had been involved in the writing of the constitution and by-laws. Steve stated, " There are hundreds of volunteers who have helped and we've gotten the assistance and expert opinions of several MEC members. " When I asked who? Steve stated, " Dave Ciabattoni has helped us enormously with the drafting of these documents."
Recall also that a great debate raged on this forum regarding the assistance and involvement on the part of James L. Javurek who, it was claimed, had no involvement at all with the drafting of the constitution and by-laws of USAPA. Now we discover that he is none other than , Chairman of Legal and Contract Administration, Jamie Javurek. A newly created position which has no counter part in ALPA. Bradford himself stated that Jamie wasn't involved several months ago!! Jamie Javurek and Dave Ciabattoni were two of the pilots selected by John Crocker to sit at the table and screen out bogus recall drafts at Crockers and Von Bargens recall vote!! They were very good at doing that job, as the trash can sitting next to them attested too their thoroughness.
We discussed several of the legal issues and most of his responses seemed overly simplistic to me and a lot like the "Just-say-No" mantra's of the past. All in all, I was rather unnerved by the encounter, as I had already made up my mind for USAPA and now I discover the "dark-sides" fingerprints on everything along with our most recent history being rewritten before my very eyes by none other than the self-proclaimed President of our soon to be union!!!! A public figure. If he doesn't have it right, how can anyone expect to get it right in USAPA?
At a recent congressional hearing a Senator made the statement to Roger Clemens, "You're one of my hero's, but it's very hard to believe you. Someone is not telling the truth".
Respectfully,
On Feb. 15th during a trip I happened to visit the DCA crew room and noted five or six pilots sitting around the big table with those handsome yellow lanyards. I wanted one, as I had recently decided that USAPA was the only way to go. One of the gentleman present offered to give me a tie tack as the lanyards were all gone. The following represents some of the issues we discussed at that table on the afternoon of Feb. 15th.
Steve Bradford himself was leading the discussions and informal Q&A that afternoon. I used the opportunity to ask some questions that were still gnawing at me.
I asked Steve who would be in positions of leadership as the new union started. He stated, " I can't tell you that as we have advised our pilots to stay in their ALPA positions and not declare allegiance until later". I said, "So who will be our negotiating committee chairman. Mowrey right?". Steve smiled and said, "well yes, of course". I told him I objected and gave him these reasons;
1. Mowrey refused to negotiate with the company during the summer before BK 2 and thus we ended up with the rush and cram-down.
2. Mowrey was directly responsible for LOA-93 along with his partners the RC-5.
3. Mowrey stated publicly that we would negotiate in bankruptcy, against the advice of all expert opinions the MEC had received.
4. Mowrey has never negotiated anything of value for this pilot group and yet he remains in his position.
Steve Bradford then said the following; " Doug didn't negotiate LOA-93, Butkovic did "!!!! I said that's bull-[content deleted]. Donn wasn't even on the committee. He'd been fired!!" "Nothing happened on that committee that Doug wasn't fully aware of , he was the chairman."
Steve then said, " Doug said, that when he came down one morning and found Donn Butkovic and Jerry Glass at the breakfast table together and they had fleshed out the LOA complete with numbers." "He had nothing to do with it." Maybe Jack Greenhall or Ted Schott did it!! I guess Doug forgot they were with him as well. The infamous "three stooges" of the negotiating world.
I told him that was shear fantasy and decided to move on to another topic.
I asked who had been involved in the writing of the constitution and by-laws. Steve stated, " There are hundreds of volunteers who have helped and we've gotten the assistance and expert opinions of several MEC members. " When I asked who? Steve stated, " Dave Ciabattoni has helped us enormously with the drafting of these documents."
Recall also that a great debate raged on this forum regarding the assistance and involvement on the part of James L. Javurek who, it was claimed, had no involvement at all with the drafting of the constitution and by-laws of USAPA. Now we discover that he is none other than , Chairman of Legal and Contract Administration, Jamie Javurek. A newly created position which has no counter part in ALPA. Bradford himself stated that Jamie wasn't involved several months ago!! Jamie Javurek and Dave Ciabattoni were two of the pilots selected by John Crocker to sit at the table and screen out bogus recall drafts at Crockers and Von Bargens recall vote!! They were very good at doing that job, as the trash can sitting next to them attested too their thoroughness.
We discussed several of the legal issues and most of his responses seemed overly simplistic to me and a lot like the "Just-say-No" mantra's of the past. All in all, I was rather unnerved by the encounter, as I had already made up my mind for USAPA and now I discover the "dark-sides" fingerprints on everything along with our most recent history being rewritten before my very eyes by none other than the self-proclaimed President of our soon to be union!!!! A public figure. If he doesn't have it right, how can anyone expect to get it right in USAPA?
At a recent congressional hearing a Senator made the statement to Roger Clemens, "You're one of my hero's, but it's very hard to believe you. Someone is not telling the truth".
Respectfully,
E
EastUS
Guest
Sigh..."handsome yellow lanyards"...OK. "I had recently decided that USAPA was the only way to go." and yet: ". I used the opportunity to ask some questions that were still gnawing at me." I see the logical progression from "handsome yellow lanyards"...and "the only way to go" to the noting of "questions that were still gnawing at me". This person seems a bit "confused" to me in their convictions = who uses the term "handsome" if not for sarcasm?....and, of course the "only way to go" but yet with major questions "gnawing" at them...umm...sure. 🙄
Can't you guys ever come up with some Alpoid FUD that's even slightly believable?
"You're one of my hero's, but it's very hard to believe you. Someone is not telling the truth".
PA18
Senior
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2004
- Messages
- 398
- Reaction score
- 9
Post #27 was written by a former East ALPA rep. One of the nine who voted in favor of terminating the pension without allowing the rank and file to vote.
Not exactly the person who should be criticizing the representatives of any union, after that despicable act.
Not exactly the person who should be criticizing the representatives of any union, after that despicable act.
E
EastUS
Guest
Aww nuts!...and here I was...completely buying into the Alpoid BS = "had recently decided that USAPA was the only way to go"...but with "gnawing" questions. 🙄
Here's a thought for any/all = What's the moral consensus about lying, conniving, utterly deceitfull types who attempt to pass themselves off under false colors....just to show how "clever" they truly are?
it's properly also noted that any/all such individuals necessarily feel themseves to be "smarter" than their intended "victims"/readers, and feel not the least shame at grossly patronizing all of us. There's the typical Alpoid arrogance in action, that I've come to so well know and "love" 😉- Status
