AFA Labor Relations Thread 12/30-

[flybynite]

AFA ELECTIONS FOR CHARLOTTE


The canidates are out and about in CLT., making promises they cant keep. Please be careful what you buy,and look into the facts most important vote.

VOTE

Now remember this MIKE THE MEC is controlling the contract negotiations and clt lec dosent have the votes to remove him or Carol Auston the negotiator.

they only way to fix our current problems is to call your lec and demand they recall him.

BTW has anyone seen the phl mec...........im just gonna say this you have to be a qualified f/a to be in a union posistion and there is no way the phl mec could pass the recurrent size preformance test.

so that leads me to think who is he in bed with?????

thats why nothing here gets done the mec keeps his job quite possibly for helping the phl lec keep his....


this is why we reserves have a awful contract.


FIX IT CALL FOR A RECALL

We have an awful contract because we had a gun to our head as we were in bankruptcy at the time.

Remember??!!!

Oh!!! Can't remember that??!!

 

[flybynite]

The comment about the Phl Mec Was NOT called for!! If you have a problem with his weight confront him in person and NOT on this forum!! Thats Cheeky!!

Ditto!!

 

[flybynite]

I have a reply for you also. How do you know substantial raises aren't in the offering? The M-T clause is a valuable bargining tool to use in these negotiations, that is why the company is more than willing to put up the "Show me the Money". Also these "Jerks" you so eloquently described them as have, like I said been totally re-writing the contract. Word for Word. And please bear in mind, the company is in no obligation to negotiate. It is not our negotiators that are dragging their feet, it is the company. However, major strides have already taken place and will be welcome to what we lost previously.

Secondly, What makes you think the company won't negotiate better rigs for us? Seperating us from the pilot group and all of their rules and regs frees them up to negotiate a proper set of duty rigs in tune with Pref Bidding... Something they couldn't have done, should we keep with the pilots...


As for Vacation, bring it on. I for one would love more vacation... If for nothing else... to get away from the airline... Stupid on my part... how do you figure... Do you think I should just say.... "Sure my vacation is fine... Don't give me any... I have plenty...." Yea right...

Ah yes, and to the meat of the matter... Pref Bid...

Do you like your present way of bidding? Do you like having to bid 2 months in advance? Do you like having to bid your vacation so far in advance that you can't make solid plans because your not sure if you will have a sked you can deal with for your vacation? If you answered yes then you are seeing only what we have presently... Pref Bid is a whole new ball game... Much more flexibility, and user friendly. It will allow you to sked yourself 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months... That my friends is a good thing not bad. Not being under the pilot umbrella will put F/A's in the position of being line holders rather than reserves.... Let's see more lines... Less reserves... What's not to like?....

Ah, I know....

Change!!!!!

Bright Ideas, are those that provoke a new way of looking at things... Not same-O-same-O...

FlyBy... I hope you take a long look at the NEW ways of possibly doing your job as opposed to what is comfortable to you...

Just my opinion...

As a response to your first question....there are none. The company hasn't come up with a big raise for us. Period. Please talk to your Reps to clarify.

The rig issue has been on the table from the get go. The company refuses to give us the same rigs as the pilots unless we're under the "Me Too" clause. That is in fact a dead issue now and has been for a while.

As for vacation...I don't have a problem bidding for it a year in advance but I do believe there should be a little more flexibility about it. Stuff happens and it just has to be redone or maybe paid out at one time..say due to illness. Just as an example...

PBS is not your friend as you have been led to believe by the company. PBS doesn't have the kind of flexibility that CATCREW does.

I know...CATCREW is "old" software....but it's solid...it NEVER crashes. It's so flexible...and it's not Windows. Thank you lord....

I don't need graphics..birds flying around or what ever...I want and need solid numbers crunching.

And that is what CATCREW provides. It is IBM programing at it's best. Until you get a little learning about software programing you need to sit back and shut up.

And I understand how some people not getting how great CATCREW is because they have never used another system. You for instance..
I'm not putting you down...please don't think that. It's just I don't think most people understand what a jewel we have. And we have a jewel. It's special. And worth it.

IMO.

 

[flybynite]

Agreed. The worst part is letting go ... Its time to move on. My goodness, our Catcrew system is from the 80's! Can we finally grow up?

Right now, we are NOT getting pay raises to split from pilots. We are getting the same regurtitated system, just the verbiage is different. I will vote NO!

Yes my darling...Catcrew is from the 80's.....scream...!!

The Laser was built in the 40's......scream..!!!

By Bell Laboratories. They didn't even have a use for it at the time but they just decided to keep it in their back pocket. Well now....how do you think that's working for them now???

So..my goodness..why don't we focus on something more productive.??

 

[FlyOnWall]

As a response to your first question....there are none. The company hasn't come up with a big raise for us. Period. Please talk to your Reps to clarify.

The rig issue has been on the table from the get go. The company refuses to give us the same rigs as the pilots unless we're under the "Me Too" clause. That is in fact a dead issue now and has been for a while.

As for vacation...I don't have a problem bidding for it a year in advance but I do believe there should be a little more flexibility about it. Stuff happens and it just has to be redone or maybe paid out at one time..say due to illness. Just as an example...

PBS is not your friend as you have been led to believe by the company. PBS doesn't have the kind of flexibility that CATCREW does.

I know...CATCREW is "old" software....but it's solid...it NEVER crashes. It's so flexible...and it's not Windows. Thank you lord....

I don't need graphics..birds flying around or what ever...I want and need solid numbers crunching.

And that is what CATCREW provides. It is IBM programing at it's best. Until you get a little learning about software programing you need to sit back and shut up.

And I understand how some people not getting how great CATCREW is because they have never used another system. You for instance..
I'm not putting you down...please don't think that. It's just I don't think most people understand what a jewel we have. And we have a jewel. It's special. And worth it.

IMO.

You, and your obviously limited worldview regarding your profession, are why US Airways flight attendants have the worst collective bargaining agreement in the entire industry. Thank you for hitting every point of ignorance so succinctly- I'm printing this to share with my friends.

 

[airportman]

Have you lost your mind?

I don't even know the man, but you assertions are absurd.

For your information...he does go through recurrent just like everyone else. He passed.
The training dept. doesn't let anyone get past them. No one gets a pass!!! The FAA is there...all the time. They live there.

You might want to rethink your assumptions.

You might want to rethink yours......he goes in June.

and i know for a fact he got a pass

the FAA is not there all the time

 

[Furloughd4now]

I know...CATCREW is "old" software....but it's solid...it NEVER crashes. It's so flexible...and it's not Windows. Thank you lord....

I don't need graphics..birds flying around or what ever...I want and need solid numbers crunching.

And that is what CATCREW provides. It is IBM programing at it's best. Until you get a little learning about software programing you need to sit back and shut up.

You ARE joking right? :blink: Flexible? As long as a Scheduler is there to approve it and then actually make the change for you ... yea, thats flexible. ETB? through a scheduler. Switch days off? through a scheduler .... the list goes on and on.

Catcrew is not a database driven system. It has to be manipulated by a human (or several) to get the "progress" that you "think" you may have.

Soon most "windows" based systems won't even recognize that software and where does that leave you? You will have to load up your old DOS based computer to get it to run.

Oh, and have you ever tried downloading it onto your IPhone? Blackberry? You can't!

I HAVE programming knowledge and show my friends who are programmers and they laugh.

Our West family uses Maestro, but they have that software so limited they can't utilize to its fullest potential.

You need to get into the 21st century my dear. SWA has PBS AND Maestro and they are very happy FAs. They can manipulate their schedules on their own! WoW, what a concept.

Oh, and please don't tell ANY of us to Shut up! Thats rude! :down: Just because we are FAs, most of us are reasonably intelligent.

 

[aptboeses]

As a response to your first question....there are none. The company hasn't come up with a big raise for us. Period. Please talk to your Reps to clarify.

The rig issue has been on the table from the get go. The company refuses to give us the same rigs as the pilots unless we're under the "Me Too" clause. That is in fact a dead issue now and has been for a while.

As for vacation...I don't have a problem bidding for it a year in advance but I do believe there should be a little more flexibility about it. Stuff happens and it just has to be redone or maybe paid out at one time..say due to illness. Just as an example...

PBS is not your friend as you have been led to believe by the company. PBS doesn't have the kind of flexibility that CATCREW does.

I know...CATCREW is "old" software....but it's solid...it NEVER crashes. It's so flexible...and it's not Windows. Thank you lord....

I don't need graphics..birds flying around or what ever...I want and need solid numbers crunching.

And that is what CATCREW provides. It is IBM programing at it's best. Until you get a little learning about software programing you need to sit back and shut up.

And I understand how some people not getting how great CATCREW is because they have never used another system. You for instance..
I'm not putting you down...please don't think that. It's just I don't think most people understand what a jewel we have. And we have a jewel. It's special. And worth it.

IMO.

That has to be one of the most horrifying posts I have seen in a long time. Now I know where Miike Flores gets all of his rank and file opinions from. The Hyundai Excel you purchased in 1989 might still be running but it is light years behind the 2010 Accent in terms of fuel efficiency, safety, quality and durability. You might want to upgrade your technology after 20 years or so...

I actually have used PBS for a number of years and find it to be an absolutely fantastic way to exercise your seniority to the fullest. At my former airline I helped to train the f/a's and pilots on the logic and operation of the system. It is a very simple system. PBS uses your seniority to award days off/trips. It attempts to satisfy your preferences from the first to the last on the first day and then moves to the next day after the first available preference has been satisfied. In simpler terms the program logic runs top to bottom, left to right.

PBS systems can be programed to offer you a fancy interface with "birds flying around" to better help those of us who have difficulty with using computers or you can have it run using just the bare interface with just a bunch of words on a screen with a blinking cursor.

PBS systems also allow you to truly utilize an "Electronic Trade Board". Imagine where you submit a trip trade and it's approved in less than 30 seconds. Imagine where you click on a trip to pick up and it's awarded to the FIRST person who clicked on it that is legal for it in less than 30 seconds. That is what PBS can do because it can actually look at your schedule and know if you're legal or not WITHOUT having to utilize a crew scheduler. (That means no more Molly the Riveter from USAir seeing her friend Pretty Patty Piedmont who was fifth in line for that trip that she's dropping on the ETB so she'll remove that trip from ETB and instead send a trade to Patty.)

PBS lets you design your own schedule and pick what trips you want to work. Why is that so horrible?

 

[malikie]

PBS lets you design your own schedule and pick what trips you want to work. Why is that so horrible?
[/quote]

Because it is change.

 

[aptboeses]

PBS lets you design your own schedule and pick what trips you want to work. Why is that so horrible?


Because it is change.

And that seems to be at the heart of it. Change can be scary but it isn't always bad. (waiting for obligatory anti AFA/Management comment now)

 

[HP2USFA]

And that seems to be at the heart of it. Change can be scary but it isn't always bad. (waiting for obligatory anti AFA/Management comment now)

Amen!

Bring on the change!!

Though seriously, I will miss Maestro's instant trip pick up. Especially since when I do return from furlough my seniority won't get me much of anything.

 

[diamondcutter]

That has to be one of the most horrifying posts I have seen in a long time. Now I know where Miike Flores gets all of his rank and file opinions from. The Hyundai Excel you purchased in 1989 might still be running but it is light years behind the 2010 Accent in terms of fuel efficiency, safety, quality and durability. You might want to upgrade your technology after 20 years or so...

I actually have used PBS for a number of years and find it to be an absolutely fantastic way to exercise your seniority to the fullest. At my former airline I helped to train the f/a's and pilots on the logic and operation of the system. It is a very simple system. PBS uses your seniority to award days off/trips. It attempts to satisfy your preferences from the first to the last on the first day and then moves to the next day after the first available preference has been satisfied. In simpler terms the program logic runs top to bottom, left to right.

PBS systems can be programed to offer you a fancy interface with "birds flying around" to better help those of us who have difficulty with using computers or you can have it run using just the bare interface with just a bunch of words on a screen with a blinking cursor.

PBS systems also allow you to truly utilize an "Electronic Trade Board". Imagine where you submit a trip trade and it's approved in less than 30 seconds. Imagine where you click on a trip to pick up and it's awarded to the FIRST person who clicked on it that is legal for it in less than 30 seconds. That is what PBS can do because it can actually look at your schedule and know if you're legal or not WITHOUT having to utilize a crew scheduler. (That means no more Molly the Riveter from USAir seeing her friend Pretty Patty Piedmont who was fifth in line for that trip that she's dropping on the ETB so she'll remove that trip from ETB and instead send a trade to Patty.)

PBS lets you design your own schedule and pick what trips you want to work. Why is that so horrible?

I totally agree with you. The problem is the union and the company have to agree on the software, and the company wants to go with the cheapest.

 

[N965VJ]

Yinz guys want to dump CATCREW? Sure, why not. Tempe has a track record of buying best-in-class systems and backing them up with a competent IT department. :blink:

 

[safety stud]

As a response to your first question....there are none. The company hasn't come up with a big raise for us. Period. Please talk to your Reps to clarify.

The rig issue has been on the table from the get go. The company refuses to give us the same rigs as the pilots unless we're under the "Me Too" clause. That is in fact a dead issue now and has been for a while.

As for vacation...I don't have a problem bidding for it a year in advance but I do believe there should be a little more flexibility about it. Stuff happens and it just has to be redone or maybe paid out at one time..say due to illness. Just as an example...

PBS is not your friend as you have been led to believe by the company. PBS doesn't have the kind of flexibility that CATCREW does.

I know...CATCREW is "old" software....but it's solid...it NEVER crashes. It's so flexible...and it's not Windows. Thank you lord....

I don't need graphics..birds flying around or what ever...I want and need solid numbers crunching.

And that is what CATCREW provides. It is IBM programing at it's best. Until you get a little learning about software programing you need to sit back and shut up.

And I understand how some people not getting how great CATCREW is because they have never used another system. You for instance..
I'm not putting you down...please don't think that. It's just I don't think most people understand what a jewel we have. And we have a jewel. It's special. And worth it.

IMO.

Well Flyby, It looks like another response to your response is in order...

The raise issue as you so eloquently stated hasn't been discussed... you are right... to a point. The issue is simple, if we negotiate OUT of the M-T... The issue of a pay raise then becomes a prime issue. Remember Money for Nothin leaves NOTHING... Please don't be so neive that a financial price hasn't been tossed around the table for the MT.

As for your second wonderful statement about the Rigs issue...
You must first understand what it is you are talking about. The Duty Rigs issue IS tied into the pilot group... Therefore if the pilots negotiate DR changes it will effect us. We can't as a collective, negotiate duty rig changes that aren't in line with the pilots. What would be negotiated are duty rigs that are SEPERATE from the pilot group. There is nothing within the MT clause that can't be negotiated seperately. It would be up to the F/A's to decide if it is worth the change. And where you are really wrong is your statement... IT IS A DEAD ISSUE... Shame on you... We are still negotiating aren't we....

Glad to see you are open to better vacation... More flexibility... Thanks to PBS.... See that wasn't so tough...

Now for the good stuff...

How do you know PBS isn't my friend... Have you been using it... Do you know all of the possibilities it can produce for you? You know nothing of what you say... PBS and CATCREW are two completely different software programs. Catcrew monitors your flying... SAP which is a sub-program in CATCREW allows BH to manipulate their sked... This however.... is governed by the MT clause.... Remember... The amount of blocks and open time is tied in 100% to the present pilot bid for that month... Once again a problem with the MT.... The pilots are deciding how many blocks each aircraft has... Not the F/A's...

As for the stability of CATCREW... You betchya... It is stable.... It doesn't do anything other than monitor.... Wow... You are soooo perceptive....

And now for my favorite line... Let me quote you.... "Until you get a little learning about software programing you need to sit back and shut up"

Wow... Flyby....
Keep my mouth shut...
Don't have a personal view...
Don't flex my mind to open ideas...
I am not a robot like yourself... I have a mind, a mouth, and a brain...
I use it... unlike yourself...

I suggest you try the same...

Just my opinion...

 

[safety stud]

With the CLT elections now being taken, I wonder, of the one's running who are willing to listen to the possibility of getting rid of the M-T clause. I have read flyers in the AFA files that skirt around the issue, I also know of a few who under no circumstances would even consider giving it up. Just wondering how everyone feels about the ones running.

Comments!!!

Just my opinion...