AFA Labor Relations Thread 12/30-

[Onestep2flt]

Wait, so the vote to recall Carol at the last Local 70 meeting is going ignored by John? Couple that with how he voted recently? Who does he think he is exactly? Hell if I thought it was worth my time I'd add my name to a list to recall his ass next. Recalling John wouldn't really do any good at this point though.

My friends with the airline were saying that Carol was recalled quite a few years ago from the MEC. Now she is negotiating your contract. I was also told that like you said there was quite a few that wanted to recall her again from the negotiating committee. There is one of the biggest problems right there. Who put her in that position after she was recalled from your MEC? How is the negotiation team formed? I still believe you guys need an outside professional negotiator. Your management has high dollar attorneys from anti-union firms representing them and you have the likes of Carol and from what it sounds the counterpart on the west is not much better than she.

I am a firm believer that unions are a necessary evil in the airline business, but I also think it has become an old boys club. The nail that sticks up is pounded down. That has become the case within your union. Those who really want change are not in the positions that can actually make that happen. I think i mentioned before from what I have heard that your MEC president has a rather large inner circle that is not necessarily looking out for EVERY flight attendant.

I am just an outsider looking in but I have noticed that the folks that seemed to want change on this board have been more and more silent. I hope it is not a case of giving up. I hope that it is a case of finally doing something to make change happen.

I do wish you all luck. It sounds like an absolute mess over there.

 

[VAflyGal]

I am just an outsider looking in but I have noticed that the folks that seemed to want change on this board have been more and more silent. I hope it is not a case of giving up. I hope that it is a case of finally doing something to make change happen.

I do wish you all luck. It sounds like an absolute mess over there.

We're quieter because the we are all sick of being children of the cornfield, plus we go round and round about things here - some of us are actually trying to get some movement going - we're on Facebook chatting it up over there.

 

[Travelpro72]

Agreed. Most chatter and any "movements" are taken up on the facebook site that f/a's can join. The conversations over there are quite informative and educating. Here it is strictly for "entertainment purposes only". At one time we turned to these boards as a place to really get the dirt but now? Not so much. It's opinion, chest thumping and topics that have been discussed for a few years now. BORING! ! ! ! As for AFA....I'd love to see them go like YESTERDAY. They suck. Let CO's union offer the UA f/a's their DOH if they join. AFA could quite possibly be dropped by UA f/a's like a date in a powder blue suit. Then you'd see AFA in BK.

 

[flybynite]

Agreed. Most chatter and any "movements" are taken up on the facebook site that f/a's can join. The conversations over there are quite informative and educating. Here it is strictly for "entertainment purposes only". At one time we turned to these boards as a place to really get the dirt but now? Not so much. It's opinion, chest thumping and topics that have been discussed for a few years now. BORING! ! ! ! As for AFA....I'd love to see them go like YESTERDAY. They suck. Let CO's union offer the UA f/a's their DOH if they join. AFA could quite possibly be dropped by UA f/a's like a date in a powder blue suit. Then you'd see AFA in BK.

Interesting...

The FB site is just the Usual Suspects with a picture. I will admit they do behave much better there.

And it's come to my attention also that if the "admin" doesn't "like" you..and we all know who that is......you're off the site. No warning..no nothing. Just gone. And she crows about it too. She tells people that. She's been pretty vocal about it. If she doesn't like you or if you aren't expressing her common view or that of her groupies ...boom....you're gone.

That smacks of immaturity and pettiness.

That's not a discussion.....

 

[VAflyGal]

Interesting...

The FB site is just the Usual Suspects with a picture. I will admit they do behave much better there.

And it's come to my attention also that if the "admin" doesn't "like" you..and we all know who that is......you're off the site. No warning..no nothing. Just gone. And she crows about it too. She tells people that. She's been pretty vocal about it. If she doesn't like you or if you aren't expressing her common view or that of her groupies ...boom....you're gone.

That smacks of immaturity and pettiness.

That's not a discussion.....

*wonders which fb page the poster is referring to... there is more than one*

 

[flybynite]

*wonders which fb page the poster is referring to... there is more than one*

It's the Reserve and Concerned Blockholders one.

 

[Deadheader]

Mike seems a little ticked off. Don't blame him. He is dead on.


EAST RESPONSE TO COMMENTS PUBLISHED BY WEST JOINT NEGOTIATION COMMITTEE MEMBER
Accessing Wings
AFA Local Numbers


EAST RESPONSE TO COMMENTS PUBLISHED BY WEST JOINT NEGOTIATION COMMITTEE MEMBER

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have the unfortunate task of informing you of comments made by Jeff Albers-a member of the Joint Negotiation Committee- regarding East Flight Attendants. Mr. Albers posted his comments on the Council 66 Discussion Forum. The comments have made their way to several other discussion sites and various email strings. Normally, I would not be inclined to further publicize Mr. Albers comments but I have no choice at this time. Mr. Albers has blatantly attacked East Flight Attendants while we are in the midst of contract negotiations. It is indeed unfortunate that he chose this path and as a result of his actions, I am compelled to respond.

The letter copied below was sent to the Council 66 Master Executive Council President, Lisa LeCarre, on behalf of the East members. I have yet to receive a response from Ms. LeCarre. I spoke with Mr. Albers last night. While he did not deny making the comments, he claimed they have been taken out of context. You can be the judge.

A special meeting of the East Master Executive Council has been called for Friday afternoon to discuss our options regarding Mr. Albers and his place on the committee that is negotiating a contract for over 6,000 members-both East and West. Unfortunately, Mr. Albers can only be removed from the JNC by his MEC President or through an AFA Hearing Board process- something he is quite familiar with having been found guilty last year by the board for actions contrary to the best interest of the Union and its members.

Thank you,

Mike Flores, President
The US Airways Master Executive Council
AFA-CWA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lisa LeCarre
MEC/LEC President
Council 66 AFA-CWA
505 S. 48th Street Suite 101
Tempe, AZ 85281

Re: Jeff Albers
VIA Email and US Mail


May 11, 2010

Dear Lisa,

I am writing to you on behalf of the US Airways Master Executive Council and the over 4300 active East members regarding comments made by Jeff Albers in a post on the Council 66 AFA website's discussion forum. As you know, Mr. Albers is a member of the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). The JNC is currently in negotiations with the Company for a merged contract with many proposals still open.

Specifically Mr. Albers posted the following comments in a letter to Council 66 members:

Dear Fellow Flight Attendants,

First of all I would like to say that I would have posted my thoughts on here sooner, but Lisa and I were busy negotiating a contract. Negotiations that resulted in two more sections being Tentatively Agreed this week. We are getting extremely close to bringing something out to our members to vote on. And what we need now more than ever is to unite! The East FA's are claiming to vote down any deal due to the ignorant fact that they would have to separate from their pilots. They are willing to ignore a vastly improved reserve lifestyle, a better scheduling system, pay increases, and many many more improvements just to stay with their childish moronic pilots! We need the support of our members, not a ridiculous recall.

Mr. Albers comments regarding East Flight Attendants and Pilots is disturbing to say the least. In fact, they are offensive and demeaning. His comments do nothing to promote his claim that what we need now is a united membership. Furthermore, Mr. Albers makes reference to negotiations in a discussion forum that has now found its way to other blogs and discussion boards. The potential negative consequences of unilaterally posting negotiation information-or misinformation- on "social media" have been discussed within the committee. Invariably this type of information falls right into the Company's lap.

Many East members, including myself, are justifiably outraged by the complete lack of respect Mr. Albers has demonstrated by his irresponsible remarks. Mr. Albers lack of respect for fellow union members is inexcusable. Perhaps he fails to understand that he is negotiating a "joint" contract and has such should take into consideration the feelings and needs of both East and West Flight Attendants.

In addition, separating from the pilots is a very important issue to the East Flight Attendants. While the committee has agreed to explore that possibility, the committee has repeatedly told the Company there is no way that will happen unless we negotiate all the scheduling and rescheduling protections as well as improvements to duty rigs, rest and duty day limitations East Flight Attendants are currently afforded through the "Me Too" clauses in our agreement.

East and West Flight Attendants have put their faith in the JNC to deliver the best possible contract we can. Mr. Albers has severely tested the limits of that faith within the East membership. It is one thing for committee members to disagree-it is quite another to be disrespectful to the membership. The entire JNC has the work lives of our members in our hands. If the committee loses the respect of our members due to irresponsible behavior then we are not acting in the best interest of our members or the Union.

Sincerely,

Mike Flores, President
The US Airways Master Executive Council
AFA-CWA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Travelpro72]

Good for Mike. What I would like to know is where Lisa gets off keeping him at the table when he shouldn't be. Most members out there don't want him at the table. Correct? Most east members that even know who he is don't want him there so why is he? If Lisa doesn't remove him then start a recall on HER. I'm sooooo over this BS going on while they have our "work lives" in our hands. We have to deal with the likes of management coupled with this crap? That dude has to go and I mean GONE! ! ! !

 

[Deadheader]

Oh Travel, it gets better or maybe worse?

Jeff's public reply clearly advocated by that incompetent boob of a president those poor west fa's have. Mike didn't portray Jeff's comments any way. I took them exactly as an insult to me and the fine pilots we work with and have worked with for the better part of 30 years. His apology is no apology at all.



AFA 66 eCommunication - Wednesday, May 12, 2010

A Message from Your AFA Council 66 MEC

As promised at our recent Local Council Meeting, your MEC is committed to communicating events that affect the MEC and our Flight Attendants. Instead of hearing this as “jumpseat gossip”, we would like to inform you of recent events that have occurred with members within the Joint Negotiations Committee.

On May 8, Jeff Albers, member of the Joint Negotiations Committee, vented his frustration on the new AFA Discussion Site. His frustration was in regard to the possibility that a joint contract would not be ratified based upon a singular issue and not upon looking at the improvements of an entire contract. Jeff vented his frustration in a place he believed was private, safe and meant only to be seen by his peers at Council 66, the new AFA Discussion Site, which was redesigned for added security and privacy. Sadly, someone took the private posting by Jeff and made it public.

Unfortunately, JNC member, Mike Flores, contacted the Council 66 MEC believing that this statement portrays East Flight Attendants negatively. You be the judge.

Jeff’s statement as posted read: First of all I would like to say that I would have posted my thoughts on here sooner, but Lisa and I were busy negotiating a contract. Negotiations that resulted in two more sections being Tentatively Agreed this week. We are getting extremely close to bringing something out to our members to vote on. And what we need now more than ever is to unite! The East FA's are claiming to vote down any deal due to the ignorant fact that they would have to separate from their pilots. They are willing to ignore a vastly improved reserve lifestyle, a better scheduling system, pay increases, and many many more improvements just to stay with their childish moronic pilots! We need the support of our members, not a ridiculous recall.

Not only did Jeff contact Mike Flores, he also sent letters to each member of the East US Airways MEC apologizing for the perception of his statement that was on our private discussion site. Following is Albers written apology to members of the East MEC:

Dear East Officers:

I am writing you today to offer my sincere apology for the statement I posted on the Council 66 discussion board (May 8, 2010) My remarks, while posted on a private discussion site for our Council, was done so out of frustration which led to a poorly worded point of view. I was not trying to insult or demean any flight attendant group. The way I wrote my comments was in no way the intent of the message I was attempting to convey.

Members of the East and West Joint Negotiations Committee (JNC) have worked tirelessly to bring an agreement to our flight attendants. The East flight attendants while having experienced the pain of bankruptcy and concessions are now receiving snap back on many of those concessions along with the fact their own contract is amendable in 2012. While flight attendants on the West (former America West) at no fault of their own had their Section 6 negotiations placed in recess as a result of pending joint negotiations. Again at no fault of either East or West flight attendants, the joint negotiations have seriously lagged in progress mainly due to the legal issues surrounding the pilots (East and West), legal issues which are currently dragging on with the end in sight. In fact, this long legal battle among our pilots has been projected to last for years unless there is another merger.

Mike often reminds the JNC of how important the issue is for the East flight attendants when it comes to separating from their pilots. In addition, he has mentioned the numerous amounts of e-mails he receives on a weekly basis from flight attendants saying they will not ratify a contract that does not keep them with their pilots. We had the same issue on the West when we separated from our pilots in 1999, yet the agreement was ratified when the benefits of separation became obvious.

It has become increasingly frustrating to work on a contract that contains numerous improvements only to be told on a weekly basis that the agreement will fail due to one issue. Unfortunately I allowed my frustration to take precedence over better judgment. My poor choice of words, clouded the true intent of my message, which was to convey that if a flight attendant voted against an agreement for one reason alone over a multitude of reasons to vote for it, I would personally consider that an uninformed, decision. Yet In my typing I used the word ignorant. In no way did I mean to stereo-type the east flight attendants with that word.

When I heard that my post, on what is suppose to be a council 66 discussion board was made public and disseminated to fuel the second attempt to recall our MEC President, I immediately called Mike to apologize and explain myself. I was shocked to be met with complete and utter disrespect. Mike insisted I only wrote what I did to protect Lisa. Who, by his own words was “going down”. He also stated that if I show up in the east I would be “stoned”. He then demanded that I resign my position on the JNC. During our negotiations time I have witnessed months of what I believe is stalling tactics. I will not back down from fighting for an important contract for my flight attendants on the west and as well as for the east.

I am here to finish the job that was started over four years ago.

Once again I am sorry that my words, intended to rally our flight attendants to unify, were misconstrued to seem like an insult. That was never my intention.

Sincerely,

Jeff Albers

Unfortunately, East MEC President Mike Flores, saw this as an opportunity to portray Jeff’s statement as a personal insult to East Flight Attendants.

As you can see in Jeff’s statement (above), he does not call the East Flight Attendants ignorant.

Mr. Flores decided to disclose to his membership and US Airways management his inability to work through internal issues directly. Rather as he stated in his eline (May 12, 2010) he would prefer to take this issue in front of the AFA International Hearing Board, yet again. This avenue could only delay the negotiations process further. Your MEC is committed to keeping negotiations on track to assure all of our Flight Attendants, East as well as West have a joint contract with the necessary wage and benefit improvements that are so desperately needed.

 

[VAflyGal]

Oh Travel, it gets better or maybe worse?


Unfortunately, East MEC President Mike Flores, saw this as an opportunity to portray Jeff’s statement as a personal insult to East Flight Attendants.

As you can see in Jeff’s statement (above), he does not call the East Flight Attendants ignorant.

Mr. Flores decided to disclose to his membership and US Airways management his inability to work through internal issues directly. Rather as he stated in his eline (May 12, 2010) he would prefer to take this issue in front of the AFA International Hearing Board, yet again. This avenue could only delay the negotiations process further. Your MEC is committed to keeping negotiations on track to assure all of our Flight Attendants, East as well as West have a joint contract with the necessary wage and benefit improvements that are so desperately needed.

Yet another attempt to shirk responsibility of one's ill-thought words AND actions by writing it down.

He needs to go, and she needs to go if she continues to support his position on the JNC. This is the last straw.

 

[Travelpro72]

He meant every word. Too little to late if you ask me. I don't want someone at the table with "my best interest" at heart that obviously feels the way he does inside. Nope! Goodbye and don't let the door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Wow, all this infighting is not helping the flight attendants. It is starting to sound like a grade school playground fight. I hope this gets fixed soon. Everyone seems to be tainted at the table.

The bad part about Mr. Flores is that he seems to write so passionately to his members when it works for him, but any other time there are crickets. I had no idea things were so bad out west as well until the last couple of posts.

It seems that Jeff may not have directly called the flight attendants ignorant but he did call the east pilots moronic I believe. Seems pretty unprofessional to me.

I think it is time the flight attendant group as a whole start putting their leadership to the coals. It is your union as everyone likes to point out. I am sure that the little games that have been playing out of late are not representing the flight attendant group as a whole. May be time to hand over the torch to some new blood that is interested in getting the best contract for all flight attendants.

Good luck

 

[beachboy]

Wow, all this infighting is not helping the flight attendants. It is starting to sound like a grade school playground fight. I hope this gets fixed soon. Everyone seems to be tainted at the table.

The bad part about Mr. Flores is that he seems to write so passionately to his members when it works for him, but any other time there are crickets. I had no idea things were so bad out west as well until the last couple of posts.

It seems that Jeff may not have directly called the flight attendants ignorant but he did call the east pilots moronic I believe. Seems pretty unprofessional to me.

I think it is time the flight attendant group as a whole start putting their leadership to the coals. It is your union as everyone likes to point out. I am sure that the little games that have been playing out of late are not representing the flight attendant group as a whole. May be time to hand over the torch to some new blood that is interested in getting the best contract for all flight attendants.

Good luck

This will end when the West AFA 66 starts acing like professionals. This guy was recalled for the most serious charge in our union : Doing an act contrary to the best interests of the Union or its members

Lisa then appoints him back to the AFA table after he was thrown out of office! Now we get this? It stops here and now. We will not move forward until this hooligan is removed post haste.

 

[hp_fa]

Mike has had it in for Lisa and Jeff since Mike left confidential documents on a table in Tempe. He has involved AFA International once. Those are both facts.

Now it looks like he intends to do it again. That is my opinion along with the opinion that Mike needs to get a lot of cheese to go with his whine.

 

[Travelpro72]

Jeff was recalled as mentioned above yet is brought back to the table to negotiate. He is unprofessional and his feelings toward east flight attendants and their pilots are well known. What does that have to do with Mike needing cheese for his whine? Your post is just....well. Anyway, the man must go and if we have to get AFA Int'l involved to do it then it shall be done. If Lisa wants to keep him on then I'm sure the signatures to recall her will only mount. Like Mike or hate him it's not about HIM. It's about that unprofessional negotiator out there by the name of Jeff who dislikes east f/a's and the union he is negotiating for.