AFA Labor Relations Thread 12/30-

[Travelpro72]

Well as for what I heard Mike Flores said the SCM's will stand and your guarantee MOST DEFINATELY will be deducted the 3+30 for it. Lovely. 🙄 The company stands by their reasoning that if you called in SCM you were not "available" that day to them so your SCM will stand as far as being pay deducted. The actual SCM won't be held against you but the time will. Ummmmm how could you be AVAILABLE to sched for an F'n closed airport? Good Lord this place is a piece of crap. The union is NOOOOOOOOO better. Week as water. 🙄

 

[safety stud]

S.U.'s email regarding why we need to KEEP the "Me Too" Clause is drawing alot of controversey. MF sent out a response to her saying she is grandstanding and making serious assumptions to her view. This begs me to once again give my points of view. First off, I am a seasoned veteran of 28 years as a F/A. I am more than ready to get rid of the MT for many reasons. First and formost, I want change. The only way to get change is by radically defyning our contract with new and improved language. Some of the senior f/a's I have worked with think I am crazy to feel the way I do. But you see, staying with the pilots and their cause will only bring more of the same.

Getting rid of the me to Will

1 Get us a substantial raise
2 Give us improved duty rigs (negotiated my company and union)
3 More vacation time
4 Finally - Pref-Bid which will allow us to bid our sked 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months
5 Sick time payout at 100 percent
6 Hourly pay for training rather than a set ammount
7 A COB that has been completely re-written, (no more side letters, a set of definitions agreed to by both parties so there is no mis-understanding)
8 A new reserve system

Not giving up the me to will:

?????????

More of the same.

Bottom line is this. Seperating the pilots does many things, most of which is change. As f/a's we would need to know what our legalities are and abide by them. This makes a union stronger not weaker... Having the pilot group decide our own destiny is just plane wrong. And face it, Our contract is no due up until the end of next year, the pilots are no closer to merging their problems than they where yrs. ago. If we do nothing, we will be stuck in the same rut we are in 5 to 7 years from now. Do you want that, I think not...

Remember this... Your contract is negotiable... Meaning that improvements can take place as needed. Allowing the pilot group to negotiate your future takes YOU out of the picture. Are you that lame that you can't stand on your own two feet and make decisions for yourself? Buck up people... Stand on your own... Don't allow others to make decisions you don't agree with and can do nothing about, for you...

Take a deep breath...

Look over the proposal when it comes...
Ask questions... Talk it over with your fellow employee's
and for gods sake... VOTE...

Whether you like it or not.... YOU have the voice...
And this time it is black or white...
Yes or No...

Just my opinion...

 

[HP2USFA]

Amen!

 

[PHLfa88]

S.U.'s email regarding why we need to KEEP the "Me Too" Clause is drawing alot of controversey. MF sent out a response to her saying she is grandstanding and making serious assumptions to her view. This begs me to once again give my points of view. First off, I am a seasoned veteran of 28 years as a F/A. I am more than ready to get rid of the MT for many reasons. First and formost, I want change. The only way to get change is by radically defyning our contract with new and improved language. Some of the senior f/a's I have worked with think I am crazy to feel the way I do. But you see, staying with the pilots and their cause will only bring more of the same.

Getting rid of the me to Will

1 Get us a substantial raise
2 Give us improved duty rigs (negotiated my company and union)
3 More vacation time
4 Finally - Pref-Bid which will allow us to bid our sked 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months
5 Sick time payout at 100 percent
6 Hourly pay for training rather than a set ammount
7 A COB that has been completely re-written, (no more side letters, a set of definitions agreed to by both parties so there is no mis-understanding)
8 A new reserve system

Not giving up the me to will:

?????????

More of the same.

Bottom line is this. Seperating the pilots does many things, most of which is change. As f/a's we would need to know what our legalities are and abide by them. This makes a union stronger not weaker... Having the pilot group decide our own destiny is just plane wrong. And face it, Our contract is no due up until the end of next year, the pilots are no closer to merging their problems than they where yrs. ago. If we do nothing, we will be stuck in the same rut we are in 5 to 7 years from now. Do you want that, I think not...

Remember this... Your contract is negotiable... Meaning that improvements can take place as needed. Allowing the pilot group to negotiate your future takes YOU out of the picture. Are you that lame that you can't stand on your own two feet and make decisions for yourself? Buck up people... Stand on your own... Don't allow others to make decisions you don't agree with and can do nothing about, for you...

Take a deep breath...

Look over the proposal when it comes...
Ask questions... Talk it over with your fellow employee's
and for gods sake... VOTE...

Whether you like it or not.... YOU have the voice...
And this time it is black or white...
Yes or No...

Just my opinion...

I Totally Agree with you!! It is About time this work group takes control of it's own!! Get rid of the MT clause!! We DO NOT NEED IT!! I worked for another airline and we were seperate from the pilot group.. We had our own union and we did just fine without the pilots!! Here we have LOST more than we have gained! It's time to move on!!

Thats my opinion!!

 

[VAflyGal]

Hi everybody. Just wanted to encourage active f/a's to join the Rotating Reserve in Joint Negotiations page on Facebook. There are other carriers' reserve sections posted, an email campaign that's been started, and updates and stories as well. This page is not intended to put everyone on the list on reserve - it's an effort to get the ever obtuse and resistant MEC to explore the options regarding this issue.
After that negotiations update cam out last week, we need to unite. It was a joke!!!

 

[flybynite]

S.U.'s email regarding why we need to KEEP the "Me Too" Clause is drawing alot of controversey. MF sent out a response to her saying she is grandstanding and making serious assumptions to her view. This begs me to once again give my points of view. First off, I am a seasoned veteran of 28 years as a F/A. I am more than ready to get rid of the MT for many reasons. First and formost, I want change. The only way to get change is by radically defyning our contract with new and improved language. Some of the senior f/a's I have worked with think I am crazy to feel the way I do. But you see, staying with the pilots and their cause will only bring more of the same.

Getting rid of the me to Will

1 Get us a substantial raise
2 Give us improved duty rigs (negotiated my company and union)
3 More vacation time
4 Finally - Pref-Bid which will allow us to bid our sked 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months
5 Sick time payout at 100 percent
6 Hourly pay for training rather than a set ammount
7 A COB that has been completely re-written, (no more side letters, a set of definitions agreed to by both parties so there is no mis-understanding)
8 A new reserve system

Not giving up the me to will:

?????????

More of the same.

Bottom line is this. Seperating the pilots does many things, most of which is change. As f/a's we would need to know what our legalities are and abide by them. This makes a union stronger not weaker... Having the pilot group decide our own destiny is just plane wrong. And face it, Our contract is no due up until the end of next year, the pilots are no closer to merging their problems than they where yrs. ago. If we do nothing, we will be stuck in the same rut we are in 5 to 7 years from now. Do you want that, I think not...

Remember this... Your contract is negotiable... Meaning that improvements can take place as needed. Allowing the pilot group to negotiate your future takes YOU out of the picture. Are you that lame that you can't stand on your own two feet and make decisions for yourself? Buck up people... Stand on your own... Don't allow others to make decisions you don't agree with and can do nothing about, for you...

Take a deep breath...

Look over the proposal when it comes...
Ask questions... Talk it over with your fellow employee's
and for gods sake... VOTE...

Whether you like it or not.... YOU have the voice...
And this time it is black or white...
Yes or No...

Just my opinion...

I am going to respectfully disagree with you on a few of your points.

First....separating from the pilots does not mean there is a substantial raise in the offing. I beg to differ. None has been offered and there is no indication that one will be. Please keep in mind that these jerks that we work for have dragged their feet for over 4 years over the small stuff.

Second....what makes you think they are going to offer better rigs? Refer to the above paragraph.

They might throw some vacation time at us to make us go away. That's cheap for them and stupid for us. I don't know about you but I lose money when on vacation.

And finally, PBS is not your friend. It violates our current contract and seniority. And it will more than likely result in more layoffs. Not a bright idea in my opinion.

I do agree that everyone should look over anything they send to us carefully. And please keep in mind that we don't have to separate from the pilots to get a joint contract. That's a fallacy.

🙂

 

[Travelpro72]

To split or not to split. Just listen to FACTS and stay informed. Don't listen to Piedmont stories or fall into the fear of the unknown. See what comes to the membership to vote on before saying yes or no. If what is negotiated doesn't work for you ya vote NO. IF it works I'll vote YES! ! ! Personally I feel the M2 has hurt us more than it has helped us. Again, just stay informed and go to the Facebook site and sign up.

 

[PHLfa88]

Hi everybody. Just wanted to encourage active f/a's to join the Rotating Reserve in Joint Negotiations page on Facebook. There are other carriers' reserve sections posted, an email campaign that's been started, and updates and stories as well. This page is not intended to put everyone on the list on reserve - it's an effort to get the ever obtuse and resistant MEC to explore the options regarding this issue.
After that negotiations update cam out last week, we need to unite. It was a joke!!!

And how do you suggest the Rotating Reserve Work? What % should be on This Rotating Reserve? Lets start with PB first! We DO need a change but a Rotating Reserve is NOT the answer!

 

[VAflyGal]

And how do you suggest the Rotating Reserve Work? What % should be on This Rotating Reserve? Lets start with PB first! We DO need a change but a Rotating Reserve is NOT the answer!

I suggest we look at how it works for United, American, Southwest, and Delta. I suggest we look at staffing models and matrices and keep it as practical as possible. I suggest we research ALL options and not be so closed minded to say "it just won't work." It works for other carriers and we DESERVE to have the opportunity to study it.

We are a stagnant airline that is experiencing no growth and no movement at the top. More people junior to you than senior to you are leaving, I'm pretty sure, which makes you
A) More junior or
B) More senior than you were last week, last month, last year???

You're only as senior as the number of people junior to you. With the constant base closures, displacements, and chances for furlough, how close are you to being back on reserve?

We don't want the whole system on reserve - we want to explore options that have worked well for other carriers and have allowed their members to earn a fair wage across the board. The disparity among our system is abhorrant. It's worth looking at.

 

[PHLfa88]

I suggest we look at how it works for United, American, Southwest, and Delta. I suggest we look at staffing models and matrices and keep it as practical as possible. I suggest we research ALL options and not be so closed minded to say "it just won't work." It works for other carriers and we DESERVE to have the opportunity to study it.

We are a stagnant airline that is experiencing no growth and no movement at the top. More people junior to you than senior to you are leaving, I'm pretty sure, which makes you
A) More junior or
B) More senior than you were last week, last month, last year???

You're only as senior as the number of people junior to you. With the constant base closures, displacements, and chances for furlough, how close are you to being back on reserve?

We don't want the whole system on reserve - we want to explore options that have worked well for other carriers and have allowed their members to earn a fair wage across the board. The disparity among our system is abhorrant. It's worth looking at.

Delta does not have a rotating reserve system, they have PB and a certian % of F/A's have "A" days:ie reserve days, either 3 or 6 per month depending on senority, which works very well there. I wish the union would look at that system!
Thanks!

 

[iheartairbus]

We deserve as union paying members to have to the possibility of Rotating Reserve or ''A'' days looked into... Please join US in holding our MEC's/LEC's accountable for atleast looking into the HONEST possibility.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/gro...id=332848871057

 

[safety stud]

I am going to respectfully disagree with you on a few of your points.

First....separating from the pilots does not mean there is a substantial raise in the offing. I beg to differ. None has been offered and there is no indication that one will be. Please keep in mind that these jerks that we work for have dragged their feet for over 4 years over the small stuff.

Second....what makes you think they are going to offer better rigs? Refer to the above paragraph.

They might throw some vacation time at us to make us go away. That's cheap for them and stupid for us. I don't know about you but I lose money when on vacation.

And finally, PBS is not your friend. It violates our current contract and seniority. And it will more than likely result in more layoffs. Not a bright idea in my opinion.

I do agree that everyone should look over anything they send to us carefully. And please keep in mind that we don't have to separate from the pilots to get a joint contract. That's a fallacy.

🙂

I have a reply for you also. How do you know substantial raises aren't in the offering? The M-T clause is a valuable bargining tool to use in these negotiations, that is why the company is more than willing to put up the "Show me the Money". Also these "Jerks" you so eloquently described them as have, like I said been totally re-writing the contract. Word for Word. And please bear in mind, the company is in no obligation to negotiate. It is not our negotiators that are dragging their feet, it is the company. However, major strides have already taken place and will be welcome to what we lost previously.

Secondly, What makes you think the company won't negotiate better rigs for us? Seperating us from the pilot group and all of their rules and regs frees them up to negotiate a proper set of duty rigs in tune with Pref Bidding... Something they couldn't have done, should we keep with the pilots...


As for Vacation, bring it on. I for one would love more vacation... If for nothing else... to get away from the airline... Stupid on my part... how do you figure... Do you think I should just say.... "Sure my vacation is fine... Don't give me any... I have plenty...." Yea right...

Ah yes, and to the meat of the matter... Pref Bid...

Do you like your present way of bidding? Do you like having to bid 2 months in advance? Do you like having to bid your vacation so far in advance that you can't make solid plans because your not sure if you will have a sked you can deal with for your vacation? If you answered yes then you are seeing only what we have presently... Pref Bid is a whole new ball game... Much more flexibility, and user friendly. It will allow you to sked yourself 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months... That my friends is a good thing not bad. Not being under the pilot umbrella will put F/A's in the position of being line holders rather than reserves.... Let's see more lines... Less reserves... What's not to like?....

Ah, I know....

Change!!!!!

Bright Ideas, are those that provoke a new way of looking at things... Not same-O-same-O...

FlyBy... I hope you take a long look at the NEW ways of possibly doing your job as opposed to what is comfortable to you...

Just my opinion...

 

[PHLfa88]

I have a reply for you also. How do you know substantial raises aren't in the offering? The M-T clause is a valuable bargining tool to use in these negotiations, that is why the company is more than willing to put up the "Show me the Money". Also these "Jerks" you so eloquently described them as have, like I said been totally re-writing the contract. Word for Word. And please bear in mind, the company is in no obligation to negotiate. It is not our negotiators that are dragging their feet, it is the company. However, major strides have already taken place and will be welcome to what we lost previously.

Secondly, What makes you think the company won't negotiate better rigs for us? Seperating us from the pilot group and all of their rules and regs frees them up to negotiate a proper set of duty rigs in tune with Pref Bidding... Something they couldn't have done, should we keep with the pilots...


As for Vacation, bring it on. I for one would love more vacation... If for nothing else... to get away from the airline... Stupid on my part... how do you figure... Do you think I should just say.... "Sure my vacation is fine... Don't give me any... I have plenty...." Yea right...

Ah yes, and to the meat of the matter... Pref Bid...

Do you like your present way of bidding? Do you like having to bid 2 months in advance? Do you like having to bid your vacation so far in advance that you can't make solid plans because your not sure if you will have a sked you can deal with for your vacation? If you answered yes then you are seeing only what we have presently... Pref Bid is a whole new ball game... Much more flexibility, and user friendly. It will allow you to sked yourself 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months... That my friends is a good thing not bad. Not being under the pilot umbrella will put F/A's in the position of being line holders rather than reserves.... Let's see more lines... Less reserves... What's not to like?....

Ah, I know....

Change!!!!!

Bright Ideas, are those that provoke a new way of looking at things... Not same-O-same-O...

FlyBy... I hope you take a long look at the NEW ways of possibly doing your job as opposed to what is comfortable to you...

Just my opinion...

I Totally Agree!! You hit the nail on the head Straight On!!

Change is Good and we need a Fresh Change! We are THE ONLY airline that stays together with their pilots...And it seems to work at ALL THE OTHER AIRLINES so why would it not work here as well!! Lets move on to a new chapter!!

 

[iheartairbus]

I have a reply for you also. How do you know substantial raises aren't in the offering? The M-T clause is a valuable bargining tool to use in these negotiations, that is why the company is more than willing to put up the "Show me the Money". Also these "Jerks" you so eloquently described them as have, like I said been totally re-writing the contract. Word for Word. And please bear in mind, the company is in no obligation to negotiate. It is not our negotiators that are dragging their feet, it is the company. However, major strides have already taken place and will be welcome to what we lost previously.

Secondly, What makes you think the company won't negotiate better rigs for us? Seperating us from the pilot group and all of their rules and regs frees them up to negotiate a proper set of duty rigs in tune with Pref Bidding... Something they couldn't have done, should we keep with the pilots...


As for Vacation, bring it on. I for one would love more vacation... If for nothing else... to get away from the airline... Stupid on my part... how do you figure... Do you think I should just say.... "Sure my vacation is fine... Don't give me any... I have plenty...." Yea right...

Ah yes, and to the meat of the matter... Pref Bid...

Do you like your present way of bidding? Do you like having to bid 2 months in advance? Do you like having to bid your vacation so far in advance that you can't make solid plans because your not sure if you will have a sked you can deal with for your vacation? If you answered yes then you are seeing only what we have presently... Pref Bid is a whole new ball game... Much more flexibility, and user friendly. It will allow you to sked yourself 2 wks in advance rather than 2 months... That my friends is a good thing not bad. Not being under the pilot umbrella will put F/A's in the position of being line holders rather than reserves.... Let's see more lines... Less reserves... What's not to like?....

Ah, I know....

Change!!!!!

Bright Ideas, are those that provoke a new way of looking at things... Not same-O-same-O...

FlyBy... I hope you take a long look at the NEW ways of possibly doing your job as opposed to what is comfortable to you...

Just my opinion...

YES YES YES!!! WELL SAID

 

[etops1]

I Totally Agree!! You hit the nail on the head Straight On!!

Change is Good and we need a Fresh Change! We are THE ONLY airline that stays together with their pilots...And it seems to work at ALL THE OTHER AIRLINES so why would it not work here as well!! Lets move on to a new chapter!!

Absolutely positively agree!! Every other airline separates from there pilots and it seems to work just fine. We are the only airline who sticks with them and look at where we are. Its all in what we negotiate people .That's all. Change people,Change.