AFA Labor Relations Thread 12/30-

[galley princess]

Fly on Wall expel your wrath at the company for their intractable behavior regarding a joint US-AWA contract if you will, but spare fellow F/As who simply want to point out what I think are very important facts and specifically motivations.

I think the fact that the company has dragged their feet on this joint contract until just before our amendable date is relevant.

I think that the fact that reserves have spent 8 years under a hideous and unliveable LTO system and are getting desperate due to poverty wages and an inability to have a life is relevant.

Do you think that if the economy was good and US was making money they'd be negotiating at all seriously right now? I think that 10% unemployment and one of the worst recessions in history strikes them as a dandy time to finalize the F/A contract and is relevant.

The stagnant seniority list at US is VERY relevant because whatever a new contract comes with it can't undo the fact that LTO is LTO and yes, I am aware that shifts have been agreed to. Anything else? A 12th day off simply matches the existing AWA contract. That's not a gain for them. LTO itself is untenable. In the old system, which was based on seniority, there was a motivation to fly, i.e. being able to time out. You took the highest time trip you could and flew so you'd be done and off the leash. That's gone. 12 days off doesn't erase that hollow feeling in your stomach that you get knowing you go on call at midnight and basically trot Catcrew with you everywhere, thus being NOT FREE of US. There's no motivation to take trips because you never top 72 hours anyway. Shifts aren't going to help this, and might even get in the way.

The union has expressed a desire for a seniority based system, but so far that's all it is. Remember the heralded buckets? Change anything for you? They want 85 hours for the reserves. Great, is it in writing yet?

I hope we come out of this well, I really do, but if you'd read my post I was talking about how things are going to shake out in the long run and what a person can do for themselves to effect the change and positive outcomes they want. None of us can control when we get a contract or the fact that many of us will never be senior. What can be controlled is how you react to those facts.

I did not suggest that anyone quit. AT 10% unemployment? Ah, no.

What I did suggest is that this situation is long haul and it will outlive probably two contracts, not just this one. If one would like a better life and still be able to fly one is going to have to accept that there are three choices within one's OWN CONTROL.

1. Have a parallel skill and use it.
2. Become a virtuoso at peddling credit cards. (Unfortunatley this tends to be linked with mercilessly numerous announcements.)
3. Recognize that timing is everything and that your vote on anything the union and company put out is yours to take or wait. We get to choose timing too.

We still have alot of sections open in this mess. Hopefully F/As will be kind to eachother as they debate and decide.

 

[Toothy Grin]

And from what I hear the FAA will soon impose more crew rest restrictions on crewmembers that will stop flying like this dead in their tracks!

You know, with so many fa's wanting the same as pilots - trips and hotels, then why not work to have the FAA institute a maximum flight attendant retirement age of 65... just like the pilots.

This would immediately clean up the clog in seniority.

You know, I like this idea so much I think I'll start petitioning the FAA now!

AM I BRILLIANT OR WHAT?

 

[cactusflyer]

You know, with so many fa's wanting the same as pilots - trips and hotels, then why not work to have the FAA institute a maximum flight attendant retirement age of 65... just like the pilots.

This would immediately clean up the clog in seniority.

You know, I like this idea so much I think I'll start petitioning the FAA now!

AM I BRILLIANT OR WHAT?

Toothy, that is genius!!!

Then maybe I could get recalled that much sooner!

 

[HP2USFA]

Amen!

 

[cokeorsprite]

sign me up toothy, great idea

 

[bigbusboy]

ALL TRIPS[/b] must be posted equally and fairly on the ETB for any and all Flight Attendants to compete for on a first come/first serve basis, as per the contract section 9, page 11, lines 35-42.

 

[bigbusboy]

Fly on Wall expel your wrath at the company for their intractable behavior regarding a joint US-AWA contract if you will, but spare fellow F/As who simply want to point out what I think are very important facts and specifically motivations.

I think the fact that the company has dragged their feet on this joint contract until just before our amendable date is relevant.

I think that the fact that reserves have spent 8 years under a hideous and unliveable LTO system and are getting desperate due to poverty wages and an inability to have a life is relevant.

Do you think that if the economy was good and US was making money they'd be negotiating at all seriously right now? I think that 10% unemployment and one of the worst recessions in history strikes them as a dandy time to finalize the F/A contract and is relevant.

The stagnant seniority list at US is VERY relevant because whatever a new contract comes with it can't undo the fact that LTO is LTO and yes, I am aware that shifts have been agreed to. Anything else? A 12th day off simply matches the existing AWA contract. That's not a gain for them. LTO itself is untenable. In the old system, which was based on seniority, there was a motivation to fly, i.e. being able to time out. You took the highest time trip you could and flew so you'd be done and off the leash. That's gone. 12 days off doesn't erase that hollow feeling in your stomach that you get knowing you go on call at midnight and basically trot Catcrew with you everywhere, thus being NOT FREE of US. There's no motivation to take trips because you never top 72 hours anyway. Shifts aren't going to help this, and might even get in the way.

The union has expressed a desire for a seniority based system, but so far that's all it is. Remember the heralded buckets? Change anything for you? They want 85 hours for the reserves. Great, is it in writing yet?

I hope we come out of this well, I really do, but if you'd read my post I was talking about how things are going to shake out in the long run and what a person can do for themselves to effect the change and positive outcomes they want. None of us can control when we get a contract or the fact that many of us will never be senior. What can be controlled is how you react to those facts.

I did not suggest that anyone quit. AT 10% unemployment? Ah, no.

What I did suggest is that this situation is long haul and it will outlive probably two contracts, not just this one. If one would like a better life and still be able to fly one is going to have to accept that there are three choices within one's OWN CONTROL.

1. Have a parallel skill and use it.
2. Become a virtuoso at peddling credit cards. (Unfortunatley this tends to be linked with mercilessly numerous announcements.)
3. Recognize that timing is everything and that your vote on anything the union and company put out is yours to take or wait. We get to choose timing too.

We still have alot of sections open in this mess. Hopefully F/As will be kind to eachother as they debate and decide.

Very well said....thankyou

 

[Furloughd4now]

And, herein lies the biggest problem and most flagrant violation of the contract concerning the ETB. Section 9, page 11, lines 35-42 clearly state beyond any doubt or misinterpretation that all "TRADING/DROPPING/PICKING UP through the ETB will be awarded in FIRST COME/FIRST SERVE order..." As of this posting, I have two pages of denials listed for March; seven of which are "matching request denied by flight attendant." After doing a little research on catcrew, I have discovered 6 of the 7 trips have all been processed and given specifically to individual flight attendants through the ETB. This one feature of Flica, just giving trips to specific Flight Attendants, needs to be deactivated. This would put Mr. TLV out of business as well as all of the other little cartels of Flight Attendants as well as facebook and twitter pages that drop and pickup trips amongst themselves. And I'm not just refering to all of the tranny-granny trips either. There are plenty of Flight Attendants who dislike transatlantic and fly domestic, dislike RONs and fly one days, dislike the E190 and fly something else, etc.. Desirable trips are never the same between two flight attendants. ALL TRIPS must be posted equally and fairly on the ETB for any and all Flight Attendants to compete for on a first come/first serve basis, as per the contract section 9, page 11, lines 35-42.

You are not the only one who's experienced this. Its frustrating when you KNOW you are the first person to hit the "pickup" button, only to have it sit around for 3-4 days and then it goes to someone else.

Its hard enough as it is to try and get trips because of legalities, but to deny someone who NEEDs to work on their days off to pay the rent is just hurtful

So much for one big happy family Unless you're in the "Cartel"... :down:

 

[Travelpro72]

Something seriously has to be done about the ETB. The ability to give trips to people needs to stop. It's great if your one of those f/a's that have that "hookup" but if you don't your screwed. If a f/a wants to drop a trip it shouldn't matter to them who pickes it up. It's unfair and ruins the ability for f/a's namely reserves to make a little extra money if they choose. What is the AFA's position on this? Please don't tell me they are ok with it.

 

[flyus2]

Something seriously has to be done about the ETB. The ability to give trips to people needs to stop. It's great if your one of those f/a's that have that "hookup" but if you don't your screwed. If a f/a wants to drop a trip it shouldn't matter to them who pickes it up. It's unfair and ruins the ability for f/a's namely reserves to make a little extra money if they choose. What is the AFA's position on this? Please don't tell me they are ok with it.

And how about those that rush in to pick up the trips offered with a little "bonus", take the "bonus" and turn around and give it up on ETB. Maybe not illegal to do, but definately immoral. Another racket for extra cash!

 

[flybynite]

I've been out for more than a few days working and I come home and finally read my e-mail about the company's decision about not agreeing to a separation package for those f/s in LGA and the lot of you are having fits over the ETB.

Have you not read your mail?

Hell...I have fits over the ETB but you guys are dropping the ball over this.

Bunch of Sissies.............

 

[AstroLounge]

And how about those that rush in to pick up the trips offered with a little "bonus", take the "bonus" and turn around and give it up on ETB. Maybe not illegal to do, but definately immoral. Another racket for extra cash!

Agree! The entire ETB system is a complete joke and some of these people FLY-FLY-FLY, because They CAN , working beyond exhaustion (and NOT because of the level of service they do either). If The Company wanted to see why Customer Service is abysmal at times and inflight service erratic and inconsistent at best........look at the system they have in place. Reserves SHOULD NOT have to give their DAYS OFF Up to pick up trips to make ends meet and there needs to be a CAP on the GREEDY BH's that continually overfly (ETB and AIL) and are anything BUT a real treat to work with. The current system STINKS and is an injustice to ALL Dues Paying Union Members.

 

[bigbusboy]

I've been out for more than a few days working and I come home and finally read my e-mail about the company's decision about not agreeing to a separation package for those f/s in LGA and the lot of you are having fits over the ETB.

Have you not read your mail?

Hell...I have fits over the ETB but you guys are dropping the ball over this.

Bunch of Sissies.............

No work group anywhere at US Airways is entitled to or owed a cash payout to leave this company. Base closures are the same as job eliminations, job transfers, and job re-locations that occur in every other industry within corporate America. I applaud and thank AFA for trying to obtain a buyout and it appears they are trying very hard; however, I began this topic referring to a flagrant violation and disregard for a section of the contract by both AFA and the company. My whole point, I think you missed; so let me repeat it. Both AFA and the company negotiated this section of the contract and subsequently sent it out for membership ratification. The contract was ratified (let's save that discussion for another thread). AFA constantly tells us to know the contract and not allow the company to violate it. If both AFA AND THE COMPANY are disregarding/violating a section of the contract, why then can't we, the membership, do the same in order to serve our own needs? How then, can this company and AFA accuse us, the membership, of violating the contract by overflying when they themselves are violating the same section of the contract?

Sissies???...I think not. Informed about and demanding what we are contractually entitled to and owed......ABSOLUTELY

 

[Travelpro72]

Here is something that is really under my skin. Do you know that the company will not charge blockholders with underfly letters for Feb? Yep all while charging the reserves 3+30 a day for being unable to make it to work during an historic storm. So a reserves only ability to make that time up would be what? You guessed it.....use the ETB. Hmmmm good luck with that one. USAirways SUCKS! ! ! ! No other way to describe it. Let a supervisor nit pick about something BS on the airplane while this is still under my skin. If so I'll need a union rep for a meeting cause I'll be one pissed off f/a. MORONS.....we are RUN by morons.

 

[flyus2]

Here is something that is really under my skin. Do you know that the company will not charge blockholders with underfly letters for Feb? Yep all while charging the reserves 3+30 a day for being unable to make it to work during an historic storm. So a reserves only ability to make that time up would be what? You guessed it.....use the ETB. Hmmmm good luck with that one. USAirways SUCKS! ! ! ! No other way to describe it. Let a supervisor nit pick about something BS on the airplane while this is still under my skin. If so I'll need a union rep for a meeting cause I'll be one pissed off f/a. MORONS.....we are RUN by morons.

If you are a RSV and had to take a personal during the big blizzard, your supervisor should change it to a stuck commute, like mine did (and not get capped). However, if you are a reserve and waited til crew sked called you and then said you were stuck, then the personal remains. Sometimes I wonder what airline all you people work at....at the very least, where are you based? DCA takes care of us reserves!