AAA ALPA Thread 9/28 to 10/5

[AWA320]

LOL!!! Like maybe the Jews for Hitler group. Come on you guys can do better than this.

These kids today. As someone else once said, it must be the light beer and MTV!!!!!

Does someone not realize the definition of "BINDING ARBITRATION?" Just Maybe, someone rolled the dice and doesn't like craps!

The rest of the world thinks maybe someone is refusing to face reality!

Now that was funny! These clowns are grasping for straws!! This too shall fail like every other dumb XXX move the've made.

I gotta say it USAPA LIKE DOH IS DOA

 

[exB717Flyer]

Congratulations on finishing your three years with AWA.

Three and a half years now, thank you very much. That's also how long I was at TWA before furlough, interestingly.

No one can possibly confuse your wisdom, with greed now, could they?

Nobody without a skewed agenda of his own.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Now that was funny! These clowns are grasping for straws!! This too shall fail like every other dumb XXX move the've made.

I gotta say it USAPA LIKE DOH IS DOA

AWA320,

Was it you that was calling for the recalls of the East MEC members?
Well, no recall effort on the East but news has West starting their own recalls.

Was it you that said USAPA did not have the cards?
The latest count is enough and there is a large margin of additional cards to insure it.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." Dean Vernon Wormer

 

[UALDC767]

United pilots also seem unhappy with ALPA. I think there are good points made on their web site why to have your own in house union. American Airlines and Southwest airlines pilots, the best paid pilots in the industry by the way, have their own pilots union, they are not associated with ALPA. I think there is no chance to salvage the careers of the older Usairways pilots. But it would be nice to vote ALPA off the property enjoy the holidays off at the same time this season.

I have added a link below for the many United Airline pilots that are dissatisfied. Listen to their opinions and give it a thought. One of their links are to our new union that will be voted in soon.

United Pilots Association. The Majority Will Be Heard.

Ummmm, you might want to double check how strong UPA is at UAL. (Answer: it never was, even in DC-their home base) A lot of their "facts" when questioned turned out not to be accurate or even current.

DC




From the front page of their website. http://www.pearlgroup.org/home.html

UPA News

So Long
This Website will close down this week. Last October UPA began collecting ballots. Per NMB rules, those ballots you signed expire in one year. Rather than ask for do-overs, we decided to give ourselves the year to collect the 50%+1 ballots needed to secure the representational election. Frankly, we thought--and still believe--that if it can't be done in a year it can't be done. Lately, we hoped our new email system would spike interest. Had that occurred, we might have stayed on--but it didn't.

The majority of United pilots have spoken, and what they've said is that they're happy with the representation that got us where we are today--the bottom of the industry and a six-year contract (except when the company wanted ALPA to give them yet another pay cut) from which there is no reasonable hope for recovery; amateur pretend negotiators who repeatedly bring us these six-year contracts; pilots who've become professional union employees and lost contact with line flying; and a 1940s way of doing union business that keeps information and power in the hands of a very few. We started UPA because we believed United pilots deserve better. Surprisingly, not many agreed. And while we'd like to be optimistic about our future and our next contract, we are still looking for a basis for such optimism.

We do want to focus on the positive, too. We are pleased and extremely grateful for the support you've given us. For the many thanks we've heard on the line. The friends we've made. Those things are what kept us going. This has been a memorable experience for us all.

We all had a hand in trying to bring meaningful change to United pilots. Together, we provided a choice. We were never responsible for the outcome, and we can all hold our heads high and be proud of what we did. Efforts like this one aren't an every day occurrence. In fact, it was a once-in-a-career opportunity. While we didn't accomplish our goal of installing a better union, we needed to make the attempt.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Fellow pilots,

We are the America West Pilots for the US Airline Pilots Association.

Many of us joined this group because we are tired of ALPA and their political structure. We are tired of nationals influence which has brought substandard wages and working conditions to our airline. And most of all, we are tired of our out of control MEC officers and reps who think they can dictate our future to us.

Yesterday we started our campaign to help our east brothers win this battle against ALPA and our ineffective and self-serving leadership. One of our members submitted the recall of all four LC62 reps. He feels strongly for our cause and took this brave step because he knows that ALPA is a dead end road. He's also brave enough to stand up to the contract cram down that we all know is coming just to accept the Nicolau award.

We will help our USAPA brothers to validate cards and work with them to bring a real union to the property that keeps dues dollars here where they belong.

In the next few weeks you will see a lot of rhetoric from the ALPA cheerleaders. They will try to instill fear of job loss and everything else just to get you to keep them in office. Those of us that worked hard for the AWAPA campaign know these tactics all too well.

Please support us on this mission. It's not about Nicolau. Though the AWA MEC and national would like you to think it is. It's about our future and dollars in your pocket.

The Nicolau award should not be used to divide the east and west groups from getting a real union.

The time has come. A brave junior first officer at AWA made the first step by submitting the recalls.

Sincerely,

The AWA pilots in support of USAPA.

awapilotsforusapa@yahoo.com

Let me positively blow you out of the water with this one...

First off I know the individual who submitted the resolution for recall personally. He is a very good friend, and believe me his resolution has nothing to do with USAPA. Sorry but who ever you are you are seriously reaching. Are you dumb enough to believe that no one with inside info would read this board! You must be an east pilot trying to garner support for your new union. His only gripe is that the LEC 62 reps are not listening to the pilots concerning the contract (pay rates, rest, etc.). Nothing you suggest in you post is even remotely accurate. Now I will admit he has received a fair amount of heat for his position from the ALPA or die crowd but he in no way supports USAPA or anything to do with it... Tell me as a "junior first officer" why would he support USAPA when USAPA's main goal is to vacate the Nic award? The Nic provides him with job security!!!! USAPA will give him what ever the east dictates... and he knows this!

Sorry but your gamble to spin this totally failed...

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

Was it you that was calling for the recalls of the East MEC members?
Well, no recall effort on the East but news has West starting their own recalls.

Was it you that said USAPA did not have the cards?
The latest count is enough and there is a large margin of additional cards to insure it.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." Dean Vernon Wormer

Well some people just have to learn life's lessons the hard way!! This west group has gone just about as far as we are going to go. Recalls?? a badge of honor on this property and at last check no support, let me say that again for you NO SUPPORT!! Now the best is yet to come for you USAPA clowns. Oh yeah baby the best is yet to come and this one's gonna hurt, more on that later in the week.

Like I've been saying USAPA LIKE DOH IS DOA!!!

 

[traderjake]

Trader,

Two questions: (1) do you share your views with your co-workers; and (2) if you do, how many agree with you?

Thanks.

I discuss this with 90% of the Captains I fly with. About 80% say the MEC is costing us money by not negotiating a joint contract and that it is the MEC's fault we did not get any credit for retirement attrition (because of the DOH/LOS strategy). All I fly with agree that a new union is not going to change the award .

The overwhelming majority of F/Os they fly with and I talk to want to keep the operations separate.

 

[hp_fa]

Trader, based on your conversations and observations, if East came to the table with West and as the first thing out of their mouths was "We unhappily accept Nicolau", what would they likely seek as a reasonable solution for wrapping up sole bargaining unit negotiations?

I don't see how any entity can escape Nicolau at this point. So, the questions become what is reasonable in a post-Nicolau situation?

 

[aquagreen73s]

I discuss this with 90% of the Captains I fly with. About 80% say the MEC is costing us money by not negotiating a joint contract and that it is the MEC's fault we did not get any credit for retirement attrition (because of the DOH/LOS strategy).

Trader, thanks for your response. The fact is that the East MEC is costing all of us money and worse yet, they are the culprits which are setting up a classic whipsaw of both pilot groups. Why and how anybody would embrace the East MEC's antics is totally lost on me and the rest of us in the West. That's interesting that a very sizable majority, 80%, assign blame where it belongs: to the MEC. Believe me when I say that the West was willing to negotiate a settlement during mediation and during arbitration but the East negotiators wouldn't budge one inch off of their DOH position. The good thing for the West was that we had nothing to lose by aggressively litigating for a result which was far better than what would have been possible through a compromise.

The overwhelming majority of F/Os they fly with and I talk to want to keep the operations separate.

That's impossible now. The time for negotiation has long passed and from the sound of it, the possibility of a slight compromise through the Rice/JNC process is also passing. AWA pilots are more than ready to resort to the military option and steamroll USAPA and its DOH radicals once and for all. The law is clearly on the side of the AWA pilots and the only thing which has prevented us from fully exercising our rights is the fact that we are bound to follow the diplomacy avenue through ALPA National. Well, one way or another that too has run its course and now the West is free to drop the legal nukes. The mechanism I speak of is completely outside of ALPA and will be heard loudly and clearly by all.

 

[Tiger 1050]

What's the matter awapilotsforusapa? Cat got your tongue...?

I was wondering if you could give us anymoe bogus info you thought up today? Ya know purely for entertainment purposes...

 

[Phoenix]

...The majority of United pilots have spoken, and what they've said is that they're happy with the representation that got us where we are today...

Duh... at the behest of ALPA every UAL pilot is buying the AWA pilots a Starbucks cup of coffee and celebrating "the problem that is no more."

 

[traderjake]

what would they likely seek as a reasonable solution for wrapping up sole bargaining unit negotiations?

Temporary fences, of a length of time unacceptable to the West pilots, segregating the East and West bases.

The way I think this plays out is that once the Retirement Age is raised to 65, the majority will realize with 5 years of no retirement attrition, they have very little to gain by not getting a joint contract. That will probably happen this year.

Between now and then there will probable be a vote on union representation that will fail by a slim margin.

The East MEC has painted itself in a corner. They are directly responsible for the award because they did not have the courage (for fear of being recalled) to tell the vocal majority DOH/LOS violated the Merger Policy. We could have easily gotten some kind of credit for retirement attrition before arbitration from the West MEC or from the arbitrator during. They are not about to admit they were wrong and it their fault.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Well some people just have to learn life's lessons the hard way!! This west group has gone just about as far as we are going to go. Recalls?? a badge of honor on this property and at last check no support, let me say that again for you NO SUPPORT!! Now the best is yet to come for you USAPA clowns. Oh yeah baby the best is yet to come and this one's gonna hurt, more on that later in the week.

Like I've been saying USAPA LIKE DOH IS DOA!!!

AWA320,

The next action you are talking about is expected. The cool thing is that is just what USAPA needs to get the rest of the fence sitters on board.

Go ahead and make our day

JOHN (COUGAR) MELLENCAMP Come on baby make hurt so good

 

[Phoenix]

Well some people just have to learn life's lessons the hard way!! This west group has gone just about as far as we are going to go. Recalls?? a badge of honor on this property and at last check no support, let me say that again for you NO SUPPORT!! Now the best is yet to come for you USAPA clowns. Oh yeah baby the best is yet to come and this one's gonna hurt, more on that later in the week.

Like I've been saying USAPA LIKE DOH IS DOA!!!

Uh oh... :unsure: Unlike US320 you seem to have a pretty good track record of predicting the future.

 

[nostradamus]

What's the matter awapilotsforusapa? Cat got your tongue...?

I was wondering if you could give us anymoe bogus info you thought up today? Ya know purely for entertainment purposes...

Here are some facts

Tiger 1050
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Posted on: Sep 15 2007, 08:44 PM


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QUOTE(nostradamus @ Sep 15 2007, 08:37 PM) *
How long have you been employed by AWA tiger?


Since Jun '04.

Why? What is your point?