AAA ALPA Thread 9-14 to 9-21, East ALPA here

[767jetz]

No, the Nicolau award is not fair (or ALPA would have passed it)

I am going to wait and see how this plays out. I am committed to having an election here, and I
think we are going to have one.

1- The Nicolau award is very fair. ALPA has not passed it because of your threats, remember? You're the one who keeps saying that ALPA is scared of decertification. So please don't now act like ALPA is not passing it to the company because it is not fair. Everyone knows it IS fair. The process is stalled because the East didn't get what they want and are playing their games, which shows a lack of integrity.

2- Have you considered what happens next if your decertification movement fails? What will the East do then?

3- What if an election is called and then USAPA does not win? What will the next move be?

 

[EastUS]

1- The Nicolau award is very fair. ALPA has not passed it because of your threats, remember?

Sigh..That hardly says much for your vaunted Alpo then. How could they be the least bit upset by the East momentum to decertify them?...You, yourself have stated on these boards that we wouldn't be missed, and may improve your sad "union" by leaving.

One of us here is seriously "confused"

PS: Your standard puppy yapping as per "integrity" is still good for some hefty grins. Care to explain the honorable UAL/Alpo position on the Ansett bit?...and silence answers I'll also momentarilly revisit your earlier road show "knowledge" yappings about being, in seemingly safely "escorted" formation with prater & company, right above a US crew room...and you hadn't the nads to go personally see what the group you so easilly insult actually had to say?

"integrity"...thanks for the laughs son

Addendum: Given that you're selling the fantasy that the Nic award's "fair"..that "everyone knows it", and yet your Masters at Alpo haven't done zip due to the evil easties...Hmmm...How's it work in your mind that it's at all "OK", in ANY way, for Alpo to keep sitting on this? Isn't it their job to "Present and Defend the Award"? Aren't they damaging the pilot group by not hurrying up the process? How's it possible for a small bunch of pilots to intimidate the great Alpo in ANY way?

Do give a wee bit more thought before next opening your yap about "integrity", and who you think has any....it certainly ain't you, nor Alpo

 

[Junebug172]

Therefore, do not pay your USAPA dues and get fired

Ya,whatever.

Just look at your own council and tell me how well that works.

Getting fired for cause - please.

USAPA is going to be short quite a bit of cash.

 

[Junebug172]

Some things are immature but funny the first 30 times, your pickleballer infatuation lost its flavor.

So have your attempts at trying to pass yourself off as a pilot.

 

[EastUS]

USAPA is going to be short quite a bit of cash.

What's transpired to change your mind about even the possibilty that there will be another union? You were quite certain that such could never happen

Could be that you'll find your thinking in error again at some points in the future

 

[EyeInTheSky]

1- The Nicolau award is very fair. ALPA has not passed it because of your threats, remember? You're the one who keeps saying that ALPA is scared of decertification. So please don't now act like ALPA is not passing it to the company because it is not fair. Everyone knows it IS fair. The process is stalled because the East didn't get what they want and are playing their games, which shows a lack of integrity.

2- Have you considered what happens next if your decertification movement fails? What will the East do then?

3- What if an election is called and then USAPA does not win? What will the next move be?

Hey 767jetz,
Feel free to belong to a union that pays its secretaries 90K a year and who rewards those that serve with a generous pension. Yeah, ALPA secretaries make more than most first officers and the union kept a pension for MEC and national reps whereas most of the membership lost theirs. Not making this stuff up; it would make one hell of a Tom Clancy novel. Personally, I can't wait until the commuter airlines represent the bulk of ALPA membership -- THAT is something most US pilots would rather witness from the outside at the new union.

Later,
Eye

 

[EastUS]

Hey 767jetz,
Feel free to belong to a union that pays its secretaries 90K a year and who rewards those that serve with a generous pension. Yeah, ALPA secretaries make more than most first officers and the union kept a pension for MEC and national reps whereas most of the membership lost theirs. Not making this stuff up; it would make one hell of a Tom Clancy novel. Personally, I can't wait until the commuter airlines represent the bulk of ALPA membership -- THAT is something most US pilots would rather witness from the outside at the new union.

Later,
Eye

"Feel free to belong to a union that pays its secretaries 90K a year and who rewards those that serve with a generous pension." And, rewards those who actually work, and pay for their Alpo arses to live in idle, and useless luxury.... with the termination of their pensions, an ever deteriorating work enviornment, lousy medical coverage...and just too many magnificent accomplishments to list here. Nic's just the last dollop of icing on the cake.

 

[nostradamus]

2- Have you considered what happens next if your decertification movement fails? What will the East do then?

3- What if an election is called and then USAPA does not win? What will the next move be?

Well we probably will not get involved interfering in another countries pilots work stoppage like your fellow United pilots did to save their hide.

UAL pilots working in Australia, just the facts

 

[nostradamus]

"Feel free to belong to a union that pays its secretaries 90K a year and who rewards those that serve with a generous pension." And, rewards those who actually work, and pay for their Alpo arses to live in idle, and useless luxury.... with the termination of their pensions, an ever deteriorating work enviornment, lousy medical coverage...and just too many magnificent accomplishments to list here. Nic's just the last dollop of icing on the cake.

Last year they could not handle their own office employees

Air Line Pilots Association offices in Atlanta, Washington and elsewhere remained closed Monday after a union for 114 secretaries and other office workers rejected a tentative contract.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ya,whatever.

Just look at your own council and tell me how well that works.

Getting fired for cause - please.

USAPA is going to be short quite a bit of cash.

Don't confuse ALPA with USAPA. New union, new Constitution and ByLaws. Different enforcement.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways ALPA MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - September 17, 2007

This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Monday, September 17th, with four new items.

Item 1. ALPA's Executive Council (EC) will meet in Washington, DC this week from Tuesday through Thursday. The EC will be considering more than 40 agenda items, with several of these items pertaining to AAA and AWA issues.

They include:

· The EC plans to review US Airways MEC and America West MEC monetary grant expenditures. The US Airways MEC has requested a continuation of an approved MCF (Major Contingency Fund) grant that will support the MEC’s approved communications plan.

· The Rice Committee will report to the EC and update the body on what's happened since the last EC meeting.

· The EC will discuss the US Airways/America West Transition Agreement Dispute.

· The ALPA Executive Vice President (EVP) that represents the AWA pilots has proposed a resolution that asks ALPA President John Prater to present the merged seniority list to US Airways management without further delay.

We will update you on these agenda items during the Executive Council's meeting.

Item 2. Given the employee-management relations here at US Airways and the fact that many of our furloughed pilots have refused to come back on property, we thought it would be helpful to provide job opportunity information to all our pilots. A pilot job fair is being held on September 22nd in Washington, DC, at the Hyatt Regency Reston Hotel. There will be 35-plus airlines that will be attending and pilots will be able to meet recruiters, hand out resumes. Specific hiring information for each airline can be found on our web site under What's New.

Item 3. November Sap bidding opens September 21st and closes September 26th. We will be posting a SAP review shortly. At the recent MEC Quarterly Meeting, the MEC passed a resolution recognizing that US Airways pilots have faced multiple sequential months of 95 hour pay caps and 5 hour flexes for the majority of 2007 and that the amount of time away from home that is required to fly such monthly schedules creates extreme hardships on our families. Since holiday months are traditionally time spent with family and friends, the MEC has designated November 2007 as “SAP Awareness Month" so as to offer some relief from the hardships placed on the pilots' families. During November’s "SAP Awareness Month 2007,â€￾ the US Airways MEC members, officers, committee members and all ALPA members on AFB status, will limit their scheduled hours to the minimum allowed through SAP and any other legal means.

Item 4. As a reminder, the Wilson Center for Public Research began polling both the US Airways and America West pilots recently. This is not a US Airways MEC poll. It has been initiated by ALPA National for use by the Rice Committee. If and how you answer questions will have an impact on the Rice Committee. If you have any questions or comments about this poll, please contact your elected representatives.

News you can use:

W.A.R. Item 917

FOM

Warning: Do not attempt to land from an unstabilized approach. The decision to go around is not an indication of poor performance, but rather good judgment.

Educate to Vacate

Arbitration Pilot Neutral, Captain Jim Brucia wrote a concurring and dissenting opinion. The following is from page 3: “As a consequence of the boards decision, America West pilot Odell, who was hired less than two months before the merger was announced, has been placed immediately senior to US Airways pilot Colello who was hired more than 16 years earlier and who had over 16 years of credited length of service. I disagree with this placement, which disregards substantial service time......â€￾

Equal pay for Equal Work:

It has been 17 days since September 1, 2007, the start of retro active pay.
Money to be paid to each Group 2 Captain is $899
Money to be paid to each Group 2 First Officer is $441
Pilots on all other aircraft will receive the same percentage increase as Group 2 Pilots (approximately 15%).

Follow the three-prong approach, fly safe and thanks for listening.

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz,

767jetz said: "The Nicolau award is very fair. ALPA has not passed it because of your threats, remember? You're the one who keeps saying that ALPA is scared of decertification. So please don't now act like ALPA is not passing it to the company because it is not fair. Everyone knows it IS fair. The process is stalled because the East didn't get what they want and are playing their games, which shows a lack of integrity."

USA320Pilot comments: You're kidding, right? John Prater told me the day he saw the Nicolau Award he knew there was a major problem. Why? It is clearly a windfall. You cannot place a 3-month AWA pilot who was on probation with the company and an ALPA apprentice member ahead of a 19-year US Airways pilot and not have a windfall, which violates ALPA Merger Policy. You cannot have the AWA pilots inherit most of the high paying international flying after a few years when they never had a widebody job in their future and not have a windfall, which violates ALPA Merger Policy.

The ALPA EC knows the Award violates ALPA Merger Policy, but they believe they cannot throw it out.

The East is not playing games and this is a very serious issue, not only for the East pilots but every airline pilot. Why? Until this issue is resolved all future mergers could have the same problems and no airline pilot will get a raise until the Nicolau Award issue is settled.

After engaging you in PM's your continued interest in US Airways is evident. You're scared that a US Airways pilot who has more tenure is going to to take their fair share of flying in a potential US-UA merger and you're deathly afraid of the US Airways pilots. Ya know what, if I were you I would be afraid too.

Finally, the recent Wilson Poll results, recent ALPA EVP information, today's Just the Facts II, and Mike Minerva's recent letter to USAPA has clearly shown how scared the Company and EC are of USAPA. The recent Wilson Poll results and USAPA's threat now has the AWA MEC capitulating and the odds of a compromise are much higher.

However, it might be too late because once the last Furlough Indoc class starts USAPA will know the exact roster, the exact number of eligible voters, and the exact number of cards required to not only call an election, but the number of votes required to "kick ALPA off" of both the East and West property.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "Hahaha you're killing me!! You ain't gonna impose jack on us!! I suggest you ready yourself for EAL, CAL part two. No one in the west will pay dues, no one in the west will support your efforts in fact I can assure you that the west will do the exact opposite of all you do."

USA320Pilot comments: Unnion members are required to pay dues and assesments and if they do not they are placed in bad standing. However, the company is still required to withhold a portion of your dues, which will be forwarded to USAPA. And, if a pilot does not pay their remaining dues then USAPA can request the company begin termination proceedings, which the company is required to do.

Bullcrap!! You go ahead and attempt an agency shop and see how willing the company is to terminate 1900 pilots wasting your time on this pilot bro, I know the rules and again not one AWA pilot will contribute!! Good luck with that threat though!!

Therefore, do not pay your USAPA dues and get fired, which I'm sure is o.k. with the majority of East pilots. By the way, will you take Prechillill, Junebug, and Luvn737s with you? I believe Virgin America and JetBlue are accepting applications.

Again you will never ever get this company to conform to an agency shop attempt with that many pilots not paying period so your threats are hollow brother!! BTW you will be way to busy dealing with the law suits that will bankrupt your little faction within a year and without any vote from the west on a new contract, its LOA 93 pay till the last day!!!

As I said, the last Wilson Poll has shown that the majority of West pilots would take a small raise for giving the east up to a 6-year fence, a new seniority integration, and widebody (current and replacement) freezes. After that when DOH furlough protection and future merger protections are incorporated into a joint contract and then the parties can negotiate the rest of the joint contract beginning on September 24. Otherwise, the West pilots will likely feel union "imposition" if there is not a compromise.

Really, well I saw the real wilson poll results, YOU DID NOT!! save your lies partner the real wilson poll showed that you east pilot group was broken in to 4 groups with the two largest stating "get us a new contract". If you gonna lie, don't do it with someone who see the real results...

I found it interesting that both ALPA and the Company have clearly shown their USAPA fear with their recent letters, especially ALPA's begging the East pilots to not decertify. Don't you agree that if USAPA ws not a threat there would be no need for both the Company and ALAP to write letters, two days before the EC meeting with the two MEC's?

I didn't see the companies letter but I fully expect ALPA to. You see you and your USAPA mantra are misleading once again the east pilot group into thinking that they will be able to walk away from the award and collective agreement. You further mislead the east pilot group into thinking that the transition agreement is just null and void but that too is a lie and will ensure that the east will live under LOA 93 for years to come all while this new shop you set up is being sued into the ground. End result?? The east pilot groups loses more money while stuck to a BK contract LOA 93.

By the way, today US Airways East (not West) had another Furlough Indoc class with about 70 pilots scheduled to attend. Everybody knows that not all 70 will report, but CLT Training personel will report to USAPA who attended and who resigned. This will permit USAPA to verify the exact authorization count validty for these 70 pilots, and, with just one more Furlough Indoc scheduled in early October, then USAPA will know the exact number of cards necessary to force an election and then the NMB Form 1 can be filed.

Really, so are you stating here that training personel is givinig out to Bradford and company confidential information?? I will fwd this statement of yours to the company and demand that who ever is giving out such info to NON entitled personel be terminated. Thanks bro.

I can't wait to see "Just the Facts III"...


Me too at least it won't be the lies and mis information that USAPA puts out!!!
Regards,

USA320Pilot

Fraternally
AWA320

 

[Tiger 1050]

The EC know the award violates ALPA merger policy?!?!? How so exactly? Let me guess, it's the whole "windfall" argument isn't it? Please show me where, in ALPA merger policy, it says the arbiter is bound by these provisions? Please tell me. Shut me up!!!!

Fact is you guys will most likely have the list forced on you and then USAPA will come out to play resulting in a lot of litigation. I can't say I blame people for feeling the way they do but, man this is one big headache...

 

[Tiger 1050]

However, it might be too late because once the last Furlough Indoc class starts USAPA will know the exact roster, the exact number of eligible voters, and the exact number of cards required to not only call an election, but the number of votes required to "kick ALPA off" of both the East and West property.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I thought you guys had all your ducks lined up for early September? It's Sept. 18th!! What's going on?