AAA ALPA Thread 10/5 to 10/12

[EastUS]

Hmmph...what utter nerve sir...insinuating even marginal sanity around here!!....although, to your observation's credit: it has been awhile since I last saw the giant shrieking purple butterflies, and most of my doctors now think that I can be let free to roam the grounds...as long as I tell them if the Voices start up again :blink: :unsure:

PS: Nothing insulting intended by the above response, nor actually anything save a small reach for some grins. What we're dealing with during this mess is unpleasant enough for us all.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

That's assuming, of course, that all of those cards came from current active pilots. It will be interesting to know how many of those get pitched in an audit. If it were 2600 cards from active pilots, I'm sure they'd be in the hands of the NMB already.

That has always been the problem from day 1. In our own audits we have cards sent in by the furloughees. Many show up and then quit when recalled. Thats good and bad. The bad part is we lose a card. The good part is we have less cards needed for the 50%+1 requirement. The core group we have now is plenty. But cards are still coming in and there is no urgency yet to take a chance on losing our once a year opportunity to force an election. As previously stated "All good things take time".

 

[AAA73Pilot]

[quote name='EastUS' post='532696' date='Oct 8 2007, 11:57 PM'][quote name='AAA73Pilot' date='Oct 8 2007, 11:49 PM' post='532690'
The campaign will be great to watch. Can't wait to see how Prater and company will react to some very interesting questions.
I'll guess that he'll do his best to avoid any/all personal confrontation of any kind. Should he choose to take on actual debate...I imagine something like Ned Beatty from Deliverance performing in the chorus line in Riverdance.[/quote]

"Loon in training" patiently waiting for his performance. Now that would be something fun for a change

 

[Cactus737]

I have no control over the website, but that sounds reasonable to me. I imagine though the kinds of things you want to know will be huge issues that USAPA and ALPA will have to explain when you are considering which union to vote for. USAPA should not be voted in just because ALPA sneers down their nose. USAPA has to offer valid reasons of why they will be better than the devil we already know.

Thank you for a rational response, though your "turn in a card and get access" idea lead me to believe that you have some say about the website because that policy is not on the website.

Turn in your card if you want to participate in an opportunity to explore our options. Sit on your hands and watch and you will likely still have an opportunity to explore our options. Its easy. You get a choice whatever you do.

My decision is already made, thank you.

BTW - do East pilots have to turn in a card BEFORE they're granted web-site access? I think not.

I want access to the website so that I can have proof that USAPA is not going to screw AWA pilots. But considering how difficult it is to gain access (AWA pilots only), I'm convinced that no such proof exists.

 

[Cactus737]

That has always been the problem from day 1. In our own audits we have cards sent in by the furloughees. Many show up and then quit when recalled. Thats good and bad. The bad part is we lose a card. The good part is we have less cards needed for the 50%+1 requirement. The core group we have now is plenty. But cards are still coming in and there is no urgency yet to take a chance on losing our once a year opportunity to force an election. As previously stated "All good things take time".

Fair enough. I only felt the need to chime in on that one because the 90% participation rate somebody else quoted is misleading.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

My decision is already made, thank you.

BTW - do East pilots have to turn in a card BEFORE they're granted web-site access? I think not.

I want access to the website so that I can have proof that USAPA is not going to screw AWA pilots. But considering how difficult it is to gain access (AWA pilots only), I'm convinced that no such proof exists.

If your decision is made, why bother?

That is about the most illogical public response so far. I really think your more interested in defeating USAPA than truly in search for information. Nice try.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I recently flew with two different TWA/AMR refugees. They both said that the TWA pilot lawsuit was looking pretty good and each of them thought that a re-ordering of the list was a very real possibility.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on. The suit is indeed progressing but for legal reasons it only seeks monetary compensation from ALPA.

Nostrildamus thinks that this suit is somehow further justification for USAirways to dump ALPA. The TWA DFR suit knew who to blame for our screweing. The USAirways East pilots apparently don't.

 

[EastUS]

TThe TWA DFR suit knew who to blame for our screweing. The USAirways East pilots apparently don't.

I'm once more confused at your thinking. Using the generally accepted west "logic", I'll clarify the issue for you then. It's "clear" that it's entirely the "fault" of the TWA pilot group that you got hosed....Sure couldn't be any Alpo mess up could it? You should have just "managed your expectations" better. Again, employing the AWA "logic": The American pilots all "brought jobs" to the merger. What's the possible TWA beef? Alpo takes care of it's pilot groups....doesn't it?

 

[ClueByFour]

That is about the most illogical public response so far. I really think your more interested in defeating USAPA than truly in search for information. Nice try.

On the flipside, the fact that no west pilots are granted access to the website guarantees that USAPA is interested in doing nothing more than trying to screw the West pilots.

Look--there is no amount of dancing around this issue that is going to somehow cloud the fact that East pilots get to see it, but West pilots don't. If USAPA's motives were pure, this would not be the case. As those motives are not what the minister of USAPA propaganda says they are, it's no big shock that the West guys can't get in.

That's okay--USAPA gets to "inherit the airline." Including the transition agreement. You guys should really trying reading it, and then comprehending that you either get LOA 93 as it stands forever, cut a deal with the West guys on reasonable grounds, or you get Nicolau. Those are the slam dunk portions. That the NMB has not found a single bargaining unit yet is icing on the cake.

 

[jack mama]

Whatever happened to the Oct 8 deadline national put on the MEC to join JNC? Any updates?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Whatever happened to the Oct 8 deadline national put on the MEC to join JNC? Any updates?

I believe the east MEC passed a resolution to maintain status quo...

 

[exB717Flyer]

I'm once more confused at your thinking. Using the generally accepted west "logic", I'll clarify the issue for you then. It's "clear" that it's entirely the "fault" of the TWA pilot group that you got hosed....Sure couldn't be any Alpo mess up could it?

As usual your prose is incomprehensible but I'll do my best. The TWA pilots are suing ALPA for DFR. Their effort to recruit the APA to rejoin continued after the merger was announced. The lawyer advising the TWA MEC was Roland Wilder and unbeknownst at the time he took his orders from Woerth, not our MEC.

You should have just "managed your expectations" better.

This was the first airline bankruptcy filed under section 1113 and as such there were many unprecedented issues that came up. Thus there were effectively no expectations to manage. Oh, and our MEC didn't withhold any transcripts from us.

Again, employing the AWA "logic": The American pilots all "brought jobs" to the merger. What's the possible TWA beef?

This integration was neither negotiated nor arbitrated so no comparison to AWA/USA is relevant. Also, no pilots were on furlough at the time the merger closed.

Alpo takes care of it's pilot groups....doesn't it?

No, they didn't, which is why there's a DFR lawsuit. Being an ALPA-ALPA merger, AWA-USA followed a set policy and Prater remained neutral.

If there's anything else you don't understand about the two completely different mergers please continue to ask.

 

[EastUS]

If there's anything else you don't understand about the two completely different mergers please continue to ask.

Thanks for that info.

I'll note that ANY two mergers are inherently "completely different".

Obviously, my main point = "Alpo takes care of it's pilot groups....doesn't it?". your response = "No, they didn't, which is why there's a DFR lawsuit."
What's new there?, other than that you got hosed at the TWA deal and another side got hosed via the AWA/US deal? You're apparently in favor of fully supporting the Alpo handling of the second, while simultaneously fine with suing Alpo for the first. OK.

I'll hope that my "prose" was more comprehensible...your cross-threaded take on Alpo's certainly incomprehensible to me.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Right or wrong guys, nobody wants to get screwed. If the tables were turned then AAA would be telling us this is just the way it is... Our friend hypocrisy visits everyone...

 

[CactusFlyr]

I think what he is trying to say is that the TWA pilots had their ability to negotiate removed before the transaction, foolishly. You guys on the other hand just refused to negotiate, DOH/LOS or die. The TWA pilots were sold out by ALPA at the bargaining table; so were the East guys, I agree. You were sold out by your own local leadership, not AWA, not Nicolau. Go blame them.