West Pilots, Would you ever consider an AAADomicile?

[EastUS]

Since you ask, I will have to go with number 2 since option 2 does not have the distinction of five fatal accidents in five years like option number one. Why do you ask stupid questions? :angry:

Sigh..That just covers the youthfull arrogance/ignorance part.......I fully understand that you guys/gals..with all your vast education and Mesa/30 degree bank/etc experience are far superiour pilots to any that have ever been seen on earth....just ask you....but you had no viable answer as to what mixture the average frequent flyer would desire to see in the cockpit....because we all know the actual answer, which doesn't serve your purpose in the least.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Sigh..That just covers the youthfull arrogance/ignorance part.......I fully understand that you guys/gals..with all your vast education and Mesa/30 degree bank/etc experience are far superiour pilots to any that have ever been seen on earth....just ask you....but you had no viable answer as to what mixture the average frequent flyer would desire to see in the cockpit....because we all know the actual answer, which doesn't serve your purpose in the least.

An accident is a horrible thing, and it can happen to any crew at any time, I would never throw accident statistics into an argument. I will say this though, as far as I'm concerned you can take your condecension and stick it in your ear. You can take any given crew and go find another with more experience somewhere. Are you the most experienced to be had? Even if you are, do you suggest that passengers skip another east flight and wait for yours? Just how ridiculous do you want to get with this?

When your 1984 hire captain was flying with a 1988 hire in 1990 did you tell them it would be better to wait until 2005 when they had more experience?

 

[CactusFlyr]

We're all losing a lot of sleep over on the east side over what the Northwest mec thinks. You're evidencing some fantasy of Alpo being some seriously powerfull national force that can/will "force" this issue. As for "the rest of the world"...just place the pipe safely down...and just say no.

As per: "the rest of the world"...go ahead and take a poll as to whether the average frequent flyer would rather have:

1) A great deal of experience in the cockpit, most especially in the left seat? or

2) You guys?

Do you guys not see it as a problem within. Practically every other pilot/pilot group thinks the results were fair??

I only have the AWA postion that was sent to the arbitration. I must have missed all the ALPA updates about the specifics of negotiations. Again, anyone, I'd like to see what great offers from AWA we turned down, because the one sent to Mr. Nic sure wasn't too great.

I thought you worked for UA, sorry to think that of you.

That is exactly what it was, an offer. Then you negotiate and end up somewhere in the middle, most likely with some fences and such. Your NC would not budge, so it doesn't even matter what we asked for.

 

[CactusFlyr]

Hawkhunter: Don't bother, I've met a few...and there are laws against child abuse. I now feel that this is a cultural, even generational divide of epic proportions. The vast majority of these guys seem to have hatched from commuter flying into what they perceive/fantasize to be some semblance of a stable/predictable/etc "real" airline, that finally pays them something for flying. For most: It's their first "Big League" experience. They're still seemingly at "that age" when it's all "new" and no/zip/zero vision of any long distance future's even possible for them. It seems that they're fully wrapped up in the fantasy that "We've just got to work on a contract now"..and pretty much have ZERO clue as to the sentiment out east as to that complete absurdity...much less the respective numbers ratio east-west. The communal assumption feeding said fantasy is that, at some level..we're "like them", and will roll over for a few bucks, or because the arbitrations' a "done deal" and all will then be well. From another thread, when it was noted that some mouthy moron spouting off about our "sense of entitlement" was...drumroll...A "Check Airman" who would "welcome you to his simulator"...well...It's apparent that these are largely people in their aviation infancy that still find check rides as something to be fearfull of. We'll never be on the same page here. This will have to take it's course in full.

Why do you East people keep personally attacking the West. We had nothing to do with where you are now.

 

[EastUS]

I will say this though, as far as I'm concerned you can take your condecension and stick it in your ear. You can take any given crew and go find another with more experience somewhere. Are you the most experienced to be had? Even if you are, do you suggest that passengers skip another east flight and wait for yours? Just how ridiculous do you want to get with this?

When your 1984 hire captain was flying with a 1988 hire in 1990 did you tell them it would be better to wait until 2005 when they had more experience?

It likely would be better for the pax to fly with that crew in 2005. Regardless of how we choose to measure such: Experience in this business does enhance safety. Using the same years referenced:Is there ANY possible safety based, operational, or even remotely SANE argument in favor of placing any 2005 hire as a Captain ahead of the 1988 person with seven additional years worth of flying time?...with sixteen years/etc?

Your point's fully taken as per condecension. I do honestly apologize for letting my emotions get away from me after the "fatal accidents" reference....and generally tending towards being purely pompous, and without doubt, fully irritating in a number of postings...none of which helped any attempts at reconciling our two groups respective situations.

 

[ClueByFour]

Sigh..That just covers the youthfull arrogance/ignorance part.......I fully understand that you guys/gals..with all your vast education and Mesa/30 degree bank/etc experience are far superiour pilots to any that have ever been seen on earth....just ask you....but you had no viable answer as to what mixture the average frequent flyer would desire to see in the cockpit....because we all know the actual answer, which doesn't serve your purpose in the least.

The FF takes the pilot with sound judgment, not the one who actually thought DOH would fly further than a lead balloon on this integration.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

This is really getting out of hand so being from the east I pose this question- how many accidents did we have in the early 90's?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It likely would be better for the pax to fly with that crew in 2005. Regardless of how we choose to measure such: Experience in this business does enhance safety. Using the same years referenced:Is there ANY possible safety based, operational, or even remotely SANE argument in favor of placing any 2005 hire as a Captain ahead of the 1988 person with seven additional years worth of flying time?...with sixteen years/etc?

Your point's fully taken as per condecension. I do honestly apologize for letting my emotions get away from me after the "fatal accidents" reference....and generally tending towards being purely pompous, and without doubt, fully irritating in a number of postings...none of which helped any attempts at reconciling our two groups respective situations.

No worries here, if anything I should apologize. I think communicating in a bar over a few beers would beat this internet banter hands down. To much context is lost on internet boards.

 

[prechilill]

This is really getting out of hand so being from the east I pose this question- how many accidents did we have in the early 90's?

Who cares? Why mention pilot experience, unless this is a new proposed measure of seniority integration you guys are considering?
I think it is time some of you radicals come in from left field, accept the arbitration is binding and get used to the idea you cannot climb higher on your seniority list at the expense of America West pilots.

 

[EastUS]

Who cares? Why mention pilot experience, unless this is a new proposed measure of seniority integration you guys are considering?
I think it is time some of you radicals come in from left field, accept the arbitration is binding and get used to the idea you cannot climb higher on your seniority list at the expense of America West pilots.

You completely misunderstand the east's viewpoint if you think that I'm among the serious "radicals" :blink: Throughout the theft of pensions, work rules/etc: I've NEVER seen ANY work group so universally outraged as I see everyday out east. There's a huge amount that have utterly "had it" with Alpa in general out here, and even more that find the Nic business wholly absurd to even momentarily consider buying off on.

It's apparent that many of the AWA posters actually believe that Alpa's some all powerfull entity, that the Nic award's a "done deal", and that after all the east "whining" subsides, .....all will magically be well. This simply is NOT the actual case on any of those issues. Alpa has no warranty that it will even stay on the east property at present. The Nic award's only in place with combined east/west.....ummm..do you see that happening now?..or in any currently possible projection into the future?

I'm all ears as to any sane, or even slightly reasonable objections you could have to Fences that would fix this mess. Such would take away anyone's "climb higher on your seniority list at the expense of America West"...AND US pilots.

 

[exB717Flyer]

It's apparent that many of the AWA posters actually believe that Alpa's some all powerfull entity, that the Nic award's a "done deal", and that after all the east "whining" subsides, .....all will magically be well.

ALPA's "power" comes from its Bylaws, the RLA, and the NLRB. Dumping ALPA will not solve your problems with the Nicolau Award nor will extorting concessions from the West bring peace.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Throughout the theft of pensions, work rules/etc: I've NEVER seen ANY work group so universally outraged as I see everyday out east.

You tough guys surrendered the wallet three times,gave up the pensions, furloughed thousands, negotiated sh!tty LOA's and Now 'This work group is universally outraged'?


Please.You lot got neutered by Siegel/Bronner and and are just now getting back to urinating while standing up.

 

[EastUS]

Dumping ALPA will not solve your problems with the Nicolau Award nor will extorting concessions from the West bring peace.

Understood...please try to get that after "All that Alpa's done for/mostly to us"...just dumping Alpa would bring a smile to many, many faces out here

If you feel that Fences would be an "extorted concession"...you're clearly trying for a perssonal land grab, and aren't the least bit interested in actually working out anything that's possible in the real world, as things actually are now.

 

[EastUS]

You tough guys surrendered the wallet three times,gave up the pensions, furloughed thousands, negotiated sh!tty LOA's and Now 'This work group is universally outraged'?
Please.You lot got neutered by Siegel/Bronner and and are just now getting back to urinating while standing up.

Well..wouldn't you say that it's far past time to do so?

Considering the tragedy that hit NY....and then "you tough guys" elected Hillary? Spare me the BS.

 

[b737fo]

Experience in this business does enhance safety. Using the same years referenced:Is there ANY possible safety based, operational, or even remotely SANE argument in favor of placing any 2005 hire as a Captain ahead of the 1988 person with seven additional years worth of flying time?...with sixteen years/etc?

How do you know the 1988 hire has 7 years more flying experience? Maybe the 2005 hire was over 50 years old when hired with experience in the military and previous captain experience from a shut down airline. Meanwhile, the 1988 hire is young and got the job with substantially less flying time. Maybe we should only upgrade based on who has the highest time in their logbook. What about the quality of the experience also? Would you rather have a pilot with a 5000 hour background flying jump planes over a drop zone day VFR or 2000 hours flying C141s around the world for the Air Force. Which would be more safe? The year of hire could be used as a baseline to measure experience but there are a lot of variables that could skew that logic.