West pilots will you answer this?

[exB717Flyer]

Why do you guys feel the need to pour salt in the wounds?

It's a message board. Lots of people who hide behind the anonymity.

Is it because the East guys are complaining and saying the decision is not fair?

Partly, yes, but mostly since the East wants to circumvent the process they agreed to abide by.

Can any of you honestly say that if the award went as close to the East's side that some guys on the West wouldn't be whining?

Of course not. There's always whiners.

I think the whole process is flawed.

Did you think the whole process was flawed before Nicolau ruled?

It causes the two groups to go to extremes just in case the arbitrator leans one way or another.

I disagree. The arbitrator's first job is mediation. Until the last day he's trying to get both sides closer together. After all, if the two sides could agree on an integration it wouldn't be going to arbitration.

Have any of you experts at other airlines looked at AWA's original proposal? Not even close to fair.

As if DOH is? Don't be using double standards, now.

I don't like some of the comments from my East co-workers, but they will vent somewhere.

Same for me from some Westies. This stuff happens during mergers. I pride myself in keeping my emotions mostly in check. Others here and on the line don't suceed as well.

 

[aquagreen73s]

No CC, it doesn't answer the question. The question was does anyone from the West believe it would have been any different if the decision went the other way. Since several West pilots are on film complaining about it before the decision was made, I don't think it would.

There have been some pretty low class posts on here from both sides.

Still no answer from aquagreen.

The East pilots on this board are a rare breed. Although there might have been a few uncultured embarrassments from the West, there would not have been anywhere near the display of collective immaturity.

 

[N924PS]

The East pilots on this board are a rare breed. Although there might have been a few uncultured embarrassments from the West, there would not have been anywhere near the display of collective immaturity.

BS!

 

[barbeetantrums]

I understand the frustration but you are not a dog stuck in a cage. Break free from the chains that make you miserable here. Life is short, enjoy it while you can.

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage.

 

[Pi brat]

It's a message board. Lots of people who hide behind the anonymity.

Is it because the East guys are complaining and saying the decision is not fair?

Partly, yes, but mostly since the East wants to circumvent the process they agreed to abide by.

Can any of you honestly say that if the award went as close to the East's side that some guys on the West wouldn't be whining?

Of course not. There's always whiners.

I think the whole process is flawed.

Did you think the whole process was flawed before Nicolau ruled?

It causes the two groups to go to extremes just in case the arbitrator leans one way or another.

I disagree. The arbitrator's first job is mediation. Until the last day he's trying to get both sides closer together. After all, if the two sides could agree on an integration it wouldn't be going to arbitration.

Have any of you experts at other airlines looked at AWA's original proposal? Not even close to fair.

As if DOH is? Don't be using double standards, now.

I don't like some of the comments from my East co-workers, but they will vent somewhere.

Same for me from some Westies. This stuff happens during mergers. I pride myself in keeping my emotions mostly in check. Others here and on the line don't suceed as well.

Yes , I thought the system was flawed before we started. This was my third arbitration and I don't think any of them has gone well. Our proposal wasn't DOH, it was LOS, a small difference, but no I don't think it was fair. But I think the West side was even less fair. I just looked at it again. You guys proposed slotting famous "Save Dave" one number above someone hired on 1/5/1987. That guy wasn't furloughed, never was, and he was around 70% of the active seniority list. Plus there were almost no protections proposed.

I believe that politics forces groups to go for the throat. I didn't rant and rave when I saw the West proposal, I saw it for what it was, their best shot at getting what they thought was fair.

My point in all of this is that if it went the other way there would be just as much screaming from the other side.

The East pilots on this board are a rare breed. Although there might have been a few uncultured embarrassments from the West, there would not have been anywhere near the display of collective immaturity.

Thanks for answering, but I disagree. I think it would have been worse because the old "you're lucky to have a job" would have been thrown in there. I have three mergers in my career to back up my opinion.

 

[aquagreen73s]

My point in all of this is that if it went the other way there would be just as much screaming from the other side.
Thanks for answering, but I disagree. I think it would have been worse because the old "you're lucky to have a job" would have been thrown in there. I have three mergers in my career to back up my opinion.

I honestly don't believe that to be true. Not because one group is more righteous or better, but because the West has a history of low expectations and the East has a history of overly optimistic expectations.

 

[Pi brat]

I honestly don't believe that to be true. Not because one group is more righteous or better, but because the West has a history of low expectations and the East has a history of overly optimistic expectations.

Give me some examples of our overly optimistic expections.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Give me some examples of our overly optimistic expections.

If there weren't overly optimistic expectations, then there wouldn't be the display of shock and horror, or talk of how a fair system failed, or talk about wrecking the system.

 

[Pi brat]

If there weren't overly optimistic expectations, then there wouldn't be the display of shock and horror, or talk of how a fair system failed, or talk about wrecking the system.

Those are not examples. There have been displays of shock and horror in every merger I've been through. Have you been through any other mergers? It was a simple question. Give me the facts.

Let me add this: Career expectations are b.s. 9/11 proved that. But what we shouldn't really expect is a little easier. I don't think that in January 2005 I expected to be based in PHX, or you expected to fly an A330 to Europe. Would you agree?

 

[AWA320]

Why quit, when we can bring you down with us...
It's more fun that way...

Hey retard that's why you guys were a failure before!!!

Gee, and you wonder why we "pour salt" on your wounds.

You guys made your bed.

Get over it.

Oh ya, and as for bringing this place down, May 9th showed an improvement in operations over the previous day. Completion rate was at 99.4% and cancellations were down to 9.

Nice job tough guys. If you destroy the place any harder, we should see 100% and 0 by Sunday.

Hey Junebug, like I told you last night in LAS, take these loud mouth clowns for what the really are, FAILURES...

 

[Pi brat]

Hey retard that's why you guys were a failure before!!!
Hey Junebug, like I told you last night in LAS, take these loud mouth clowns for what the really are, FAILURES...

That shows a lot of class.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Yes , I thought the system was flawed before we started.

Flawed or not, I've always argued that ALPA Merger Policy is as fair a process as can be had. What process would you propose that would actually work, keeping in mind how unlikely an agreement is? We at TWA would've loved to have had this opportunity with AA in 2001 and even if the arbitrator had come up with the same thing the APA did I, for one, would've dealt with it.

Our proposal wasn't DOH, it was LOS, a small difference, but no I don't think it was fair.

No offense, but I don't think it matters whether you think our proposal was fair. If each side made an acceptable proposal arbitration wouldn't be necessary!

I think it would have been worse because the old "you're lucky to have a job" would have been thrown in there. I have three mergers in my career to back up my opinion.

You beat me by one in that regard, but I've seen enough ugliness from both sides to know you're right. Emotions tend to rule the day with many. At least here and now you and I are the exceptions.

 

[Pi brat]

Flawed or not, I've always argued that ALPA Merger Policy is as fair a process as can be had. What process would you propose that would actually work, keeping in mind how unlikely an agreement is? We at TWA would've loved to have had this opportunity with AA in 2001 and even if the arbitrator had come up with the same thing the APA did I, for one, would've dealt with it.No offense, but I don't think it matters whether you think our proposal was fair. If each side made an acceptable proposal arbitration wouldn't be necessary! You beat me by one in that regard, but I've seen enough ugliness from both sides to know you're right. Emotions tend to rule the day with many. At least here and now you and I are the exceptions.

I agree with you there my friend and I have to say that during my lurking days I thought your posts were well thought out and emotion free. As to what I would process I would propose, well I don't think it should be left to one man. I think there should be a board of at least three, and/or an appeals process after the award comes out. This wasn't a slam dunk, as the CO neutral had a dissenting opinion, but no vote.

Best to all of us.

 

[safety stud]

Gee, and you wonder why we "pour salt" on your wounds.

You guys made your bed.

Get over it.

Oh ya, and as for bringing this place down, May 9th showed an improvement in operations over the previous day. Completion rate was at 99.4% and cancellations were down to 9.

Nice job tough guys. If you destroy the place any harder, we should see 100% and 0 by Sunday.

Just because we didn't do it on the day(s) you wanted to see it doesn't mean it can't or won't be done. Caos is a wonderful thing don't you know.

Hey retard that's why you guys were a failure before!!!
Hey Junebug, like I told you last night in LAS, take these loud mouth clowns for what the really are, FAILURES...

The correct word is "mentally chalanged"...
Be very careful who you say that to, and how you use it...

 

[LCC_#1]

You know, the company could take care of this issue by simply offering an early retirement that is worth taking for both pilots AND f/a's. It is no secret through the many comments on these threads and through the actions of this company that your years of service are NOT valued

My first priority is the customer and making sure they are happy and that I do a great job. I will smile, be kind, and yet behind the act, curse the uncaring bastards that are apart of this company. I have NEVER seen such disrepsect for loyalty, hard work, and longevity. Anymore, I do what I want and take what I want where this company is concerned because they just dont give a good GD...east or west.

Tell me I have a poor attitude all you want. I really could care less. I have the many letters and certificates of excellence to prove my performance. But after 20 years of constant attempts to drive anyone 20 yrs and higher out, Doug and Scott can go :censored: themselves. I no longer give a damn about one word...or should I say LIE...they say.