USAPA Loses DFR Case!/US pilot thread

[prechilill]

You guys EAST/WEST can say all you want but NIC did not do his job. Spilt the baby
NIC award will go down in history on how not to merge sonority.. And all unions involved with airlines are keenly aware

Ummm, isn't that what arbitration is supposed to do? Split the baby down the middle? Or I guess you wanted the whole baby which is why USAPA came into existence and is about to get clobbered in federal court.

 

[john john]

Ummm, isn't that what arbitration is supposed to do? Split the baby down the middle?

YES that is my point


AFA CWA IAM IBT TWU doesn’t think so

 

[prechilill]

There are adminstrative ways around the first problem. USAPA can negotiate a bridge scheduling section that would deal with that issue.

But with a contempt charge hanging like the sword above their heads, they would have ample motivation to quickly negotiate a suitable contract. USAPA would have to level with their constituency and tell them that voting down all agreements just to keep a status quo is not acting in good faith. The company won't waste their time participating in such a charade. The west will not participate in any informational picketing, etc. that would prompt the company to sweeten their offer if the only thing acceptable is ridiculously expensive.

So everyone will be held hostage to irrational behavior forever? Do you really believe this?

In the Bizarro world that is USAirways, employees turn down raises in order to stay at the bottom of the industry and refuse to accept anything because it might provide some benefit to a group they would rather treat with disdain. Is this an airline or a Mel Brooks movie?

I think that the west pilots will begin to participate and their ideas and actions will attract the attention of those on the east that are dissatisfied with spending money to do nothing. The west pilots have experience in dealing with this management group and a clear plan will win out over sticking your head in the sand until you retire every time.

And if an appeal is a foregone conclusion, what is the basis of such an appeal, since you are in the midst of the proceedings where you could remedy any appealable issue?

Outstanding post. Everyone (especially east pilots) should read the above again and let it sink in.

 

[cleardirect]

Id give slight odds favorite to the west right now. Judge being overturned? Id say we have the odds there. But dont count out a settlement, ala the judges "thinking out loud." Thats one guy who doesnt want his long-term finger-prints on this, nor wants to deal with a reversal, or worse yet, the 9th Circuit handing this typhoid mary back to him. For sure, Wargocki and Iranpour arent getting their jobs back any time soon unless we win the arbitrations. No way Wake can pull that off. I hope we win, hope they come back, because a rising tide lifts all boats. I get better lines when I get those senior pukes younger than me get off Intl IRO and bid A320 CA.

The odds are in the east ‘s favor of overturning the district court? Who told you that? Could you please explain that to me. The odds go down dramatically in the appeals court.

Are you relying on the word of a lawyer with a questionable record at best. The same lawyer that got schooled in open court on Friday. Is that the lawyer that you think with deliver a victory to usapa? The same lawyer that has cost the association somewhere over $2 million so far with nothing to show for it.

I have questioned lawyers and done some research on this subject. Only about 50 % of appeals are even accepted. Of those 50% only 5.3% are overturned. Add to that judge Wake wrote the book on appeals. So I think that he also knows what will and what will not make a case appealable. So how is it that the odds are in your favor in the court of appeals?

What are the odds of usapa winning in the fourth circuit on the RICO case? Good or bad?

Doesn’t want his fingerprints on this. That is an interesting but incorrect statement right there. This case is going to be historic. Law schools will be teaching this case. Labor attorneys will be quoting this case. Care to count up how many time Rakestraw was cited in this case? Replace Addington going forward. In the Air Wisconsin case the judge’s name is used many times. No Wake is not concerned at all about putting his name on this. The people that should be embarrassed by being attached to this pig are Seham, Brengle and usapa.

On Friday the judge said a couple of times that he would let the lawyers make their record for appeal. His reputation is quite solid not to worry.

I do agree with you that this case will not bring back our incorrectly furloughed pilots. That will be the grievances. So it is important that those are won. Yes usapa is doing a good job of pursuing them. My only criticism is the block hour violation started in Sept 2008. They are not being heard until late this month. Took a little to long to get to.

 

[ussnark]

It sure is, much like experience is within any other human endeavors I'd think....but, heck..enjoy your "theory" anyway.

I thought that a little interesting also, a Westy arguing for "experience" over simple "theory", as in, two years out of Emory-Riddle vs twenty-three years of actual experience.

It always seems rather difficult for them to stay "on message" when they do not believe in it themselves.

 

[cleardirect]

YES that is my point


AFA CWA IAM IBT TWU doesn't thing so

Don't know what "thing" you are talking about. But that alphabet soup has nothing to do with pilot integration. Read the transcripts. Not once was it allowed to enter this case.

So objection your honor, irrelevant.

 

[john john]

Don't know what "thing" you are talking about.

Nic

 

[cleardirect]

I thought that a little interesting also, a Westy arguing for "experience" over simple "theory", as in, two years out of Emory-Riddle vs twenty-three years of actual experience.

It always seems rather difficult for them to stay "on message" when they do not believe in it themselves.

QUOTE (EastUS @ May 10 2009, 07:01 AM) *
It sure is, much like experience is within any other human endeavors I'd think....but, heck..enjoy your "theory" anyway. rolleyes.gif

UM! EASTUS is one of yours.

Anyway could you please point to the two years E-R new hire that came here without experience?

 

[john john]

But that alphabet soup has nothing to do with pilot integration.

Thank GOD! Airline unions are worry about Nic

 

[ussnark]

Anyway could you please point to the two years E-R new hire that came here without experience?

Two years out of E-R would imply a tiny bit of experience.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I am pretty sure this is wrong. Bud of mine is drawing his 4k month PBGC plus 1500 mo military ret. and still flying 737 at U.

Barrister

Lol - thanks for making me feel better by showing that I'm not the only one that occasionally replies to a post before reading later posts. You're right, there's an exception to the "don't get PBGC till you retire" rule that I didn't know about but someone else pointed out.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

Two years out of E-R would imply a tiny bit of experience.

two years out of Emory-Riddle vs twenty-three years of actual experience.

No, you see according to the east, experience only occurs at US Airways. Actual experience as opposed to just riding around in an airplane.

 

[hp_fa]

Must have jet lag to miss THAT one, TP.

One last question. Why are you recently referring to me as TP?

 

[hp_fa]

You guys EAST/WEST can say all you want but NIC did not do his job. Spilt the baby
NIC award will go down in history on how not to merge sonority.. And all unions involved with airlines are keenly aware

John John,

Right or wrong ALPA merger policy does not mention DOH. It mentions five criteria and leaves it to the merger committees to fashion a seniority list that complies with those criteria. Nicolau was aware of those criteria and even requested an alternate 11th hour proposal from East on the last day of the hearings. He did his job with the parties and the policies he had available.

 

[ussnark]

No, you see according to the east, experience only occurs at US Airways. Actual experience as opposed to just riding around in an airplane.

So, you are an E-R grad?