USAirways pilots labor thread 7/23-7-29

[flybynite]

Clearly you are incorrect. They were acquitted of those charges.

j. Appears to be a very broad subject. Anyone could be found in violation of anything.

Saying that they were found guilty of the other things is overreaching and wrong. If they had they would have been punished. Instead both sides. East and west were told to try and work it out and get along.

The charges that you attempt at attribute they were found NOT guilty of.

They are both still in their position. They were not removed. Try and think for a minute. If they had been found guilty of what you say. Why would the AFA leave them in place.

That is what Flores was hoping for. Remove any opposition to his power grab. Why did he keep information from the west president?

AFA business is our business. If you are so curious about this, educate yourself first before you make stupid statements about our process.

And there has been no "power grab". That's some hokum being spread by Ms LaCarre herself.

The last I heard was PHX and LAS bases were in the process of having her recalled. She isn't well respected by her peers.

Mike didn't keep anything from Ms LeCarre.

We don't post rediculous YouTube videos to spread disinformation.

 

[Megasnoop]

90% of the Captains I fly with say it's over and time to get paid.

Your obviously flying with the wrong 90%. Or else you subscribe to the Yogi Berra school of mathmatics.

Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical.

Clearly you are incorrect. They were acquitted of those charges.

j. Appears to be a very broad subject. Anyone could be found in violation of anything.

Whoa there, clear. They were still found guilty. What part of that dont you get? Now your spinning a guilty charge into a not guilty and on an issue that some claim has no relevance to us. No union is going to throw members out. That means they dont even have to pay MX fee (lots of case law on that courtesy of NRTW, Natl Right to Work). Easier to throw them out of office and suspend them. BTW, that little AFA tidbit came from an FA, not a pilot.

To the sciolists amongst us who dont see the relevance. Does the apple fall far from the tree?

What I find interesting is that you and your ilk are trying to make AFA business your business. It's not.

AFA business is our business. If you are so curious about this, educate yourself first before you make stupid statements about our process.

And there has been no "power grab". That's some hokum being spread by Ms LaCarre herself.

The last I heard was PHX and LAS bases were in the process of having her recalled. She isn't well respected by her peers.

Mike didn't keep anything from Ms LeCarre.

We don't post rediculous YouTube videos to spread disinformation.

Thanks, flyby. Amazing how spring-loaded/thin-skinned the West pilots are on even minor disagreements, ones theyre clearly wrong on. But from their point of view, time is against them. The appeal is being filed, LOA93/84 pay provisions will be paid or appealed. We're going to get 2 $35M payments. Their only strategy left to to attack and try to undermine our morale and determination. too bad theyre being aided and abetted by some of our own pilots, still licking their wounds at losing their beloved ALPA and their ALPA gravy train.

 

[cleardirect]

Whoa there, clear. They were still found guilty. What part of that dont you get?

Thanks for point that out. USAPA was found "guilty" liable of DFR What part don't you get?

They were found guilty of one out of what 8 charges. The big charges they were found NOT guilty. The other is a catch all. A charge that can be used for anything.

Now your spinning a guilty charge into a not guilty and on an issue that some claim has no relevance to us. No union is going to throw members out. That means they dont even have to pay MX fee (lots of case law on that courtesy of NRTW, Natl Right to Work). Easier to throw them out of office and suspend them. BTW, that little AFA tidbit came from an FA, not a pilot.

Yes, but they were not thrown out of office where they? No they were told to get along.

Thanks, flyby. Amazing how spring-loaded/thin-skinned the West pilots are on even minor disagreements, ones theyre clearly wrong on. But from their point of view, time is against them. The appeal is being filed, LOA93/84 pay provisions will be paid or appealed. We're going to get 2 $35M payments. Their only strategy left to to attack and try to undermine our morale and determination. too bad theyre being aided and abetted by some of our own pilots, still licking their wounds at losing their beloved ALPA and their ALPA gravy train.

ALPA has nothing to do with this. When are you going to understand that? I don't care if ALPA comes back. This is all about usapa and what they are doing.

Appeal all day long. After reading the latest begging on bended knee from Seham things are getting desperate for usapa. The dream list has been taken off the web site. Does that tell you anything?

LOA 93 good luck don't bet the house on that. Another year at least to find out. The appeal is nothing more then an ATM for Seham. Good luck with that. But you enjoy your $10,000, $7000 after taxes. Hope that makes up for everything else?
BTW. When is that vote. I like the W2 method. The more you invest the more return you get, right. That is what all of of you have been saying right? Or is this something different?

 

[Barrister]

And George Nicolau is in his 70s. If age counts for something he wins easily.

See, there ya go again highlighting why the NO vote will rule. Not only will the typical West F/O upgrade YEARS
before they ordinarily would have by capturing the East attrition but they will fly Captain for years longer than they would have had we not merged while the U copilots will NEVER upgrade.

NIC obviously did not care that he went straight ratio with a company that had a average age of 55 versus 35. Now you get the big NO vote. AND if I may add this really ain't about the West guys. As far as I am concerned the West guys are not the issue. It truly is not personal. My disgust is with an 80 year old guy who penalyzed the very people who saved this airline from it's own demise by giving up so much. Consider that by the time NIC made his ruling 500 furloughrd guys on the bottom were back flying. I have ZERO amimosity against the West guys. NIC on the other hand is an idiot. The West not have done, nor will they ever do anything to me. Niclolau is the idiot the West just benefitted from it.

 

[captainJack]

And USAPA has been completely unsuccessful in getting pilots their jobs back.

Examples?

 

[captainJack]

If you are so will we. If you forgot. Single carrier, single airline, single corporation.

You forgot, separate operations.

 

[jetjok1]

Actually, YOU GUYS don't deserve me. I am awful close to taking my flying business elsewhere. Sad day when a former loyal USAir employee gives up on the home team. Probably a good move since the East and West pilots are about to run US Airways into the ground anyway.

Later,
Eye

Good Riddance! Don't let the door hit you on the way out. "former loyal employee". Sounds like you gave up on the "home" team a long time ago.

 

[HPDriver]

Examples?

How about that Captain who shot a hole in his airplane for one.

 

[HPDriver]

Thanks, flyby. Amazing how spring-loaded/thin-skinned the West pilots are on even minor disagreements, ones theyre clearly wrong on. But from their point of view, time is against them. The appeal is being filed, LOA93/84 pay provisions will be paid or appealed. We're going to get 2 $35M payments. Their only strategy left to to attack and try to undermine our morale and determination. too bad theyre being aided and abetted by some of our own pilots, still licking their wounds at losing their beloved ALPA and their ALPA gravy train.

Thin-skinned? Ya right. You have to have just the opposite to deal with you guys successfully, which we have.

And we're not trying to undermine, merely tell the truth that USAPA seems to keep avoiding. A good example being the snapbacks. At least now Mega is admitting to the impending arbitration and futile fight that's going to happen to try and get that money. At least alot of east pilot realize that isn't going to happen.

As for the $35M - good luck. You guys will be too busy fighting that one for a while trying to figure out distribution.

As for undermining moral, Seham seems to be doing that just fine with loss after loss. We're just pointing it out.

So you keep playing cheerleader for USAPA, But as an FYI, your pilots are leaving the stands.

 

[flyer63]

I've never posted here and probably won't post again, but wanted to give my opinion. This whole thing is a mess and the behavior of both sides is like children.

I do have a problem with the Nicalau award I'm an East pilot. Hired in 89. Furloughed 93-97 then Back from 97-2002. Then gone again from 2002-2007.

What bothers me is the attrition that the east brought to the merger is now if Nicalau (big if) is implemented is going to mostly go to the west. I've been thru hell and have 12 years of active service with this company. What I've been waiting for for all these years is the 250-300 retirments that the East is going to soon have. 65 slowed that down by 5 years, but we are only 3 years away from that happening and those jobs should of gone to the EAST. So now with NIC they get diluted .... That is the part that is not fair and I have a problem with. I've put 20 years on and off into this company and still am a RSV..... The gold was upon us until this award stole it from us.

why should someone who had a few years with their compnay take attrition that was ours?

I also think the resolve is as strong as ever to not accept the NIC.

best to all

 

[HPDriver]

I've never posted here and probably won't post again, but wanted to give my opinion. This whole thing is a mess and the behavior of both sides is like children.

I do have a problem with the Nicalau award I'm an East pilot. Hired in 89. Furloughed 93-97 then Back from 97-2002. Then gone again from 2002-2007.

What bothers me is the attrition that the east brought to the merger is now if Nicalau (big if) is implemented is going to mostly go to the west. I've been thru hell and have 12 years of active service with this company. What I've been waiting for for all these years is the 250-300 retirments that the East is going to soon have. 65 slowed that down by 5 years, but we are only 3 years away from that happening and those jobs should of gone to the EAST. So now with NIC they get diluted .... That is the part that is not fair and I have a problem with. I've put 20 years on and off into this company and still am a RSV..... The gold was upon us until this award stole it from us.

why should someone who had a few years with their compnay take attrition that was ours?

I also think the resolve is as strong as ever to not accept the NIC.

best to all

You should have asked your MEC to negotiate for fences instead of straight DOH. The west was willing and Nicolau woarned your MC to back off their proposal.

But, as usual, you guys didn't listen and there you are.

And what about the furloughs you brought to this merger?

 

[fr8tmastr]

Nic suggested both sides rethink their position, neither side moved.

 

[HPDriver]

Nic suggested both sides rethink their position, neither side moved.

No, he didn't.

And I was at the hearings. He was, and it was quite obvious, highly suggesting that the east's DOH or nothing stance needed to be addressed.

There was absolutely no question on that.

 

[HPDriver]

Went to look some info up on USAPA's site and found this. Guess reality starting to creep in on the site too.

 

[flyer63]

So HP if that is your response then don't fault us for fighting ...... what has happened in the past we can't change, but we can continue to fight because we think it's right. The award in Many people's mind's was flawed. not in yours I understand that. but we will contiue the fight to mitigatge the effects of a truly crazy award. and furloughs we brough to this compnay? all of us were back before Nic issued his award.