US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/24-6/30 Stay On Topic

[nycbusdriver]

For what it is worth I was not at all impressed by Capt. Sullenberger when he testified about the "integrity" issue.

I'm certain Capt. Sullengerger is deeply upset that you were not impressed. After all, we are all very impressed with you.

 

[Beancounter]

So, you are admitting "Parker" paid nothing for US? Perhaps, it was US who bailed HP out of their unpaid federal debt?

AWA didn't pay anything for US in terms of cash. AWA's credit and manangement was used to aquire the funds to pay for the merger and bring US out of bankruptcy. A little more complicated than me borrowing money to buy a house, but similar. AWA didn't have the money or credit to expand on their own and US didn't have a viable long term business plan. Both companies needed the other from what I've seen and read.

 

[700UW]

Wrong, it was US Airways that raised the money for the merger, using John Luth from Seabury and Associates, why cant people accept those facts?

Nothing but the facts

 

[Edward]

Folks lets stop the who brought who arguement now. This thread is not about that.

Also some of you are still not paying attention to warnings. Personal comments & attacks WILL get you time off & your posts will be removed. This thread is about current issues not each other.

 

[ussnark]

Wrong, it was US Airways that raised the money for the merger, using John Luth from Seabury and Associates, why cant people accept those facts?

Nothing but the facts

While I don't always agree with you (as a pilot having been fired from the property for supporting the IAM in the early 90's) I must champion your attempt to publicize the truth of what happened with the so-called merger.

 

[Megasnoop]

The difference between our grievance and that of USAPA was that USAPA only argued that the 98 or so new hires (post merger) constituted the "third list."

Looks like we’ve hit a nerve on counts 1&2. Lot of calls/complaints? Big payday gone? Counts 1&2 could have been argued before Judge Wake by your “all star caliber†legal team during the trial, but he remanded to grievance because one of your leadership geniuses filed grievances before the DFR was filed. Arbitration was because the judge said the grievances were already filed and belonged in arbitration, not court. You’ll never know how it would have turned out if counts 1&2 had stayed in court, will you? The grievance was argued like it was written, with grievant's best buddy working with Tracey on it,

From: "Mxxxx Vxxxx" <mxxxxxxx@gxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: January 8, 2009 622 PM EST
To: "'Txxxxx Xxxxxx'" <txxxx.xxxxx@xxxx.com>, <txxxx.xxxxx@xxxx.com >, <Dxxxx.xxxxx@xxxx.com>, <Lxxxx.xxxxx@xxxx.com>, <Mxxx.xxxxxx@xxxx.com >
Subject: Thanks to all
I just wanted to thank everybody for a job well done today. I enjoyed working with each of you.
Until next time…Mxxxx

So when they lost, our chance of success diminished as our attorneys would have to undo the poor performance by USAPA legal, get Arbitrator Bloch to reverse his earlier decision on TA9, and then convince him to take the remedy several steps further. Our attorneys are nothing short of all star caliber and although we have the greatest of confidence in their skills, this situation was sizing up to be not worth the cost, even if we could afford to litigate these grievances. Hence, we withdrew both arbitrations.
USAPA's claim that we had no chance of succeeding is not telling the full story. What really occurred with the arbitrations is that USAPA legal has once again let down all US Airways pilots as TA9 should have been an easy win against the company. But to Cleary and his gang running USAPA, the only adversary is apparently the West pilots - their loss in TA9 and our forfeiture of an arbitration against the company is evidently a victory for that gang.

Can’t afford to litigate? You must really owe your legal all-stars a ton of money. Poor performance on the part of USAPA? Not according to your own crack grievance expert and former West MEC officer. TA9 and 10 were different issues. Otherwise they would have been combined as 1 grievance or 1 count. Your chutzpa genius jumped the gun and filed a grievance for what AOL attorneys wanted to be Counts 1&2. He did a number on you. Your loss, our victory? We blew it intentionally? Sounds like DFR to me!

If this crack legal team can't win at TA9, then how on Earth will they win the snapback grievance? What is now painfully obvious to anyone following the AAA-AWA saga is that the Cleary regime is the worst thing that could ever happen to any pilot group. With today's proposed order, we are witnessing the unfolding of another loss for the Cleary-run USAPA. The percentage of pilots who have not donated at least $500 is dwindling fast and we anticipate having more than 70% of the pilots at the Bronze level or above in the near future. Your contributions are what keep our legal team fighting. We as a pilot group have made amazing gains against the attempted theft of our careers by Bradford and Cleary, but our battle if far from over. How far we go and how much we succeed as a group depends upon how many West pilots commit financially to securing our legal rights.

It’s reinstatement of our LOA84 pay rates, not snapback. Even the judge thought you didn’t have much chance winning TA9. 10 was stronger, but you walked away. Our “crack" arbitration team already has a strong record so far. $30M in 401K money replacing company IOUs, to our disabled pilots so far. Tracy’s team on the right track. We'll see how RJs and reduced hours turn out.

This sounds like AWAPPA, so we know who wrote it. You are not “a pilot group†in any legal sense of the words. <70% donating at the $500 level? So <$500K, to cover >$1M+ legal fees, so far? No wonder Harper needs big damages payday. Still needs $$ for the appeal.

“making out like bandits, USAPA spin machine, Cleary regime, Cleary-run USAPA, attempted theft of our careers by Bradford and Cleary, Cleary and his gang, Cleary regime is the worst thing that could ever happen to any pilot groupâ€

Looks like we'll patch things up real quick.

 

[BoeingBoy]

<70% donating at the $500 level? So <$500K, to cover >$1M+ legal fees, so far?

Ya sure your name's not Maytag. You seem to have missed that little "or more", as in "at the bronze level or more." Is $1,000 more than $500? How about $2,000? $3,000? What is the limit on "or more" than $500?

Jim

 

[Beancounter]

Wrong, it was US Airways that raised the money for the merger, using John Luth from Seabury and Associates, why cant people accept those facts?

Nothing but the facts

You are correct US Airway's investment advisor the Seabury group did help with some of the merger financing. Seabury had connections with Wexford Capital and Air Wisconsin prior to the merger. There might have been a third, I just can't remember. This money however was a small percentage of the total required. The majority of the money came in by using AWA credit and the promise of using the AWA management team. We're both right. If you reply to this post could you tell me what you are wanting from the AWA pilots(Nic decision) and what are the most important things in a new contract? Not flame bait, I'm serious.

 

[traderjake]

Traderjake is a East guy who already has his and wants to be based in PHX.

I not going to PHX and I'm a narrow body F/O. If you call that "having mine" you might want to set you sights a little higher.

You want to to be unethical and hide behind DOH to steal another man's job that's your business.

I'm not going there with you. I am going to point out what you and my other East coworkers are doing whenever the subject comes up.

 

[traderjake]

To TraderJoe, it would be
What would you pay ..err.. what would you have others pay.. to return to ALPA FPL

I never done any work for ALPA, paid or unpaid.

ALPA was corrupt. USAPA is corrupt and incompetent.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

I not going to PHX and I'm a narrow body F/O. If you call that "having mine" you might want to set you sights a little higher.

You want to to be unethical and hide behind DOH to steal another man's job that's your business.

I'm not going there with you. I am going to point out what you and my other East coworkers are doing whenever the subject comes up.

I don't want anyone's job and I don't want anyone's future. I would be pleased if we could merge the list but keep the flying protected on each side. If either airline had any value going forward, then that value belongs to its employees. If US east is worthless, only east pilots should suffer, if it has value, it should be ours. Im a 99 hire with 5 years LOS and will be on the bottom of any list, I just want to make sure that when I get furloughed, It is because of pulldowns in the east system and not the west. DOH/NIC are both unfair for the same reasons but if a compromise is out of the question, guess which end of the stick I'd rather be holding. I hope some middle ground can be found. Binding arbitration, I think a west guy said it best, There is right and there is legal...I vote compromise, short of that what would be the point of conceding any sooner than we have to, no contract will be meaningful to me if I am furloughd because of west drawdown.

 

[GuntherA320]

I don't want anyone's job and I don't want anyone's future. I would be pleased if we could merge the list but keep the flying protected on each side. If either airline had any value going forward, then that value belongs to its employees. If US east is worthless, only east pilots should suffer, if it has value, it should be ours. Im a 99 hire with 5 years LOS and will be on the bottom of any list, I just want to make sure that when I get furloughed, It is because of pulldowns in the east system and not the west. DOH/NIC are both unfair for the same reasons but if a compromise is out of the question, guess which end of the stick I'd rather be holding. I hope some middle ground can be found. Binding arbitration, I think a west guy said it best, There is right and there is legal...I vote compromise, short of that what would be the point of conceding any sooner than we have to, no contract will be meaningful to me if I am furloughd because of west drawdown.

You spoke the truth.....most on the east feel this way......."guess which end of the stick I'd rather be holding"......prepare to be attacked.

Again....I've said it a few times now.....I have nothing against any west pilots and a few are my friends. This is business not personal. I would have prefered to see compromise back when that was possible. However if this is the choice we have, what do you expect us to do?

 

[KTM300]

Ya sure your name's not Maytag. You seem to have missed that little "or more", as in "at the bronze level or more." Is $1,000 more than $500? How about $2,000? $3,000? What is the limit on "or more" than $500?

Jim

What ever Daddy can afford to buy his son's seniority

 

[Edward]

Folks lets stop the who brought who arguement now. This thread is not about that.

Also some of you are still not paying attention to warnings. Personal comments & attacks WILL get you time off & your posts will be removed. This thread is about current issues not each other.

I'm bringing this back up again as some of you are not heeding our warnings. I'm currently in the process of removing some posts & we've added quite a few more suspensions this morning. We are not kidding about this. Time to grow up & think before you post.

 

[cleardirect]

I don't want anyone's job and I don't want anyone's future. I would be pleased if we could merge the list but keep the flying protected on each side.

This probably qualifies as the most ridiculous statement this month. How in the world do we merge but protect the flying on each side??????

That would be separate ops not a merger. If the growth because of a merger happens in one base or another that is not your job. That is the companies job therefore it is all of our jobs.

Using your logic anyone that was original Us Air should not be based in CLT. That was not your job.

If either airline had any value going forward, then that value belongs to its employees. If US east is worthless, only east pilots should suffer, if it has value, it should be ours. Im a 99 hire with 5 years LOS and will be on the bottom of any list, I just want to make sure that when I get furloughed, It is because of pulldowns in the east system and not the west.

With 5 years you had no hope of ever returning so you would not have to had to worry about getting furloughed again. What most of you fail to understand is that this is one company now. There is no east west flying. There is company flying. There is company growth and shrinking.

DOH/NIC are both unfair for the same reasons but if a compromise is out of the question, guess which end of the stick I'd rather be holding. I hope some middle ground can be found. Binding arbitration, I think a west guy said it best, There is right and there is legal...I vote compromise, short of that what would be the point of conceding any sooner than we have to, no contract will be meaningful to me if I am furloughd because of west drawdown.

There is no compromise. Let me say that again. THERE IS NO COMPROMISE. That time has passed a long time ago. A federal injunction will be in place very soon that will not allow any compromise. By usapa demanding and receiving single carrier status they removed the ability to compromise. Because they removed anyone to compromise with.

This is the end. It is time to concede that the list is the list. Once more if you get furloughed again it will be because of COMPANY drawdown not because of east or west drawdown. At 5 years you are probably on the 190. That airplane was not in the fleet at the time of the merger. So without the merger that airplane would not be on the property therefore you still would be on furlough. That airplane is not in the transition. So if the company decided that thet wanted to fly it in the west system should you be furloughed because the flying was reduced in the east?

The freight train is running down the tracks. It is unstoppable. The Nicolau is here to stay there is no compromise, there is no changing it. Time to accept that and move on.