US Pilots Labor Thread 5/13-19--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Did you see that you get the whole pie at the end.

Most of us will be long gone by then, but the East retains the Number 1 seniority position on the combined Nic list until May, 2025.

After that, a Westy gets the first nibble at the pie, so I suppose you're right.

 

[Phoenix]

Sure, Jim...and anyone with 20 years in this business knows that any flight may be your last...do you still go to work that day? Excuse me, but I'm having a chat with some west pilots, thank you.

Perhaps what he meant to say is that anyone with 20 years of ALPA dues behind them should have known what ALPA could sit by and watch happen to you... as well as the smug derision that ALPA sycophants will heap on you after it does.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What elephant?
[/quote

The one you just walked past. You are giving them to much credit. Their words sometimes suggest otherwise, but their actions only lead to one conclusion, that of putting the west in its place, no matter what it takes.

 

[hp_fa]

I saw Star Trek last week. Isn't that the franchise that has the optimistic view of the future?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I saw Star Trek last week. Isn't that the franchise that has the optimistic view of the future?

I think you are a decent person, from what I read, and it is hard for you to fathom just what usapa is really all about. And no doubt many east pilots are decent people as well, but they are swimming upstream just as the west is.

There is a reason usapa's press release is as it was, rather than like the one you put forth. It's objective is to beat the west into submission, period. Usapa doesn't want to hear from any moderates.

 

[traderjake]

Neil Wake is a highly respected judge. If you have a problem with him, please, by all means, lodge a complaint, I'm sure that your sour grapes and lack of knowledge of the law will go far in your complaint.

Quit your whining, even a blind man could see that USAPA was wrong, how many times to you need to hear it?

The point I was trying to make (badly it appears) is that the West has options, other than calling their USAPA reps, if USAPA does not comply with the Courts remedy.

 

[traderjake]

In USAPA's press release Cleary said, "we were required to argue our case with limited evidence and were hamstrung by questionable rulings and incorrect instructions. " And, Cleary continues insulting the Judge Wake when he said, "we encountered truly unbiased impartiality. "

Another brilliant move by Cleary and USAPA, insulting the Judge before awards damages or a remedy.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The point I was trying to make (badly it appears) is that the West has options, other than calling their USAPA reps, if USAPA does not comply with the Courts remedy.

No worries, my bad. So much fingerpointing by USAPA, they don't understand, their villiain is residing in their mirror.

 

[electricjet98]

hp fa,

I had posted this earlier, but sometimes this board is a fast-moving place!


I think you may have mentioned this before, but just for my own understanding:

1) Is it possible for the appelate court to accept the appeal just for the intention of fully understanding the case prior to accepting the results and let it stand as future 9th Circuit precedent?

2) Do you (or anyone else) have the schedule/timeline for the damages court session this summer?

 

[nic4us]

I would expect that the West folks are going to be joining USAPA en masse and soon. Unless I am very mistaken they stayed away from USAPA for a couple of reasons, but the overriding one I believe is advice of counsel while the Addington liability case was proceeding. Now that it has been decided I believe it is advantageous for them to join USAPA for two reasons, 1) they would be able to vote and have a say in the union; and, 2) perhaps they want to try and work together and get the mess behind them as soon as they can. (BTW, I do not have any actual knowledge regarding what counsel advised them. I am making educated guesses.)

hp_fa

You are mistaken. Advice of counsel has always been that West pilots join the union. The founders of AOL are members in good standing and have been since day one.

Some though, myself included, feel that although we would be granted better legal protections as members, we just cannot in good conscience join. I simply will not join an organization whose purpose is to harm the West pilot group. If that purpose changes I will reconsider.

A number of east posters have commented on their feelings that the West should have joined and tried to change things from within. Be a part of the process to implement the change. All I can say is..if I do not like the movie, I get up and leave, if I were appauled by the trailer, I would never see the movie in the first place.

 

[cubfan]

I know what's going on on Wednesday, I'm talking about the Damages portion in August. I read it could be a judge or jury decision, I'm assuming it's up to the defendant?

Another question I have is How will USAPA pay for a large judgment against them? Assessment of the members? Liability insurance?

I can give you my 2 cents worth, damages/judgments large or small will be paid by liability insurance, if they have it, if not no payment, a contract with NIC will happen at some point, payment by east pilots for damages......... never.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I can give you my 2 cents worth, damages/judgments large or small will be paid by liability insurance, if they have it, if not no payment, a contract with NIC will happen at some point, payment by east pilots for damages......... never.

I guess technically you're correct as the damages will be paid by USAPA, but then again USAPA has 3500 dues paying members on the East. If they don't pay dues, then there's section 19 to collect from them.

 

[luvn737s]

Why would the union the presumes to be built "from the pilot up" (in other words on the backs of hard-working pilots) be opposed to putting the question of pursuing appeals to the membership as a referrendum?

Is USAPA afraid to take direction from it's constituents?

 

[hp_fa]

hp_fa

You are mistaken. Advice of counsel has always been that West pilots join the union. The founders of AOL are members in good standing and have been since day one.

Then I stand corrected.

 

[EastUS]

Why would the union the presumes to be built "from the pilot up" (in other words on the backs of hard-working pilots) be opposed to putting the question of pursuing appeals to the membership as a referrendum?

Is USAPA afraid to take direction from it's constituents?

If you feel that's any semblance of a productive notion = Call your rep and suggest it. Good luck with any/all attempts to get the east to cave in though. A lot can and will happen during the time required for appeals. One thing that most likely WON'T be happening is absurdly junior (in real terms) west pilots flocking east during that time, and however much the west wishes to fantasize otherwise, there's the little issue of LOA93 coming up for dispute in a fairly short time, potential merger/etc activity..and really...who knows what all? I think you'll have a very, very hard sell with the idea of accepting any Nic/AWA/Westie Uber Alles after just the initial legal encounter. The devastation that would be caused by undiluted Nic is just far too great.

None can say how this will eventually play out on appeal, well...you can "say" all you want but it's unknown.

The west folks that are suggesting "It's time to move on"..."unified work force"/etc...well..you've simply gotta' be kidding. Let's hear another round of just what fabulous damages you're seeking to extract from east people..revisit the declared "All Out Warfare" that was the west's proclamation...deny some more jump seats...put up a bunch more "cute" stickers...and run the west's latest jokes by once more for fullest effect.

West perceptions and propaganda will naturally vary.