US Pilots Labor Thread 5/13-19--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[UtterlyUdder]

The pilots and the company should realize that there should be two separate pilot groups under different unions and contracts. Never the two shall meet. I would not want to be a passenger on an aircraft the day after the groups come together and have a west and east pilot at the controls. They would be giving each other the finger and arguing about fair and unfair well before they got to 10,000 feet. Like ill-behaved cats that keep fighting, they need to be put in separate rooms.

While I wouldn't agree with your statement " Like ill-behaved cats that keep fighting, they need to be put in separate rooms." :down: I do agree that "never the two shall meet". You can see for yourself how "professional" some pilots are by the way they write. Most pilots are professional and because many don't like the outcome of this case so far......you would still be very safe with any of them. At the risk of being struck by lightning, both the East and West ops are flying safely.

I don't know how long you have been reading this forum, but it was far worse a year and two ago than it is now. Things will gin up again when Wake decides whatever he will decide and who knows what that will be. :unsure:

 

[jimntx]

Like ill-behaved cats that keep fighting, they need to be put in separate rooms.

I am 64 years old. I got my first cat (for which I was responsible to feed and care for) when I was 6. Based on 58 years of experience with cats, sir, I must say I resent your remark and implications highly. Cats would have long ago settled their differences by coming to the realization that

1. All this posturing, spitting, and hissing is not only interfering with my nap time, but the occasional claw swipes are causing me to bleed also.
2. Everyone of us has a spot on the bed for sleeping.
3. This is interfering with my nap time.
4. Everyone of us has our own dish with food in it.
5. This is interfering with my nap time.
6. There are more than enough kitty litter boxes that we don't have to share if we don't want to.
7. This is interfering with my nap time.
8. There are enough windows so that we can all have a sun place.
9. This is interfering with my nap time.
10. The fireplace has enough floor space in front of it that we can all get warm at the same time.
11. This is interfering with my nap time.
12. The female black and white is kinda cute.
13. This is interfering with my nap time.

 

[luvn737s]

The lines will eventually drawn between rational and irrational rather than merely east and west. Those rational pilots will balance the benefits of a joint contract (even if it's Kirby's as a stopgap) against the potential downside of the Nic award.

If there are roughly 5000 pilots of whom 2700 are current USAPA members then the 50+1% majority is approximately 200 pilots (about the same as the margin in the initial Union election). How difficult will it be to find 200 pilots who are sick of LOA93 and are willing to chance some of the negative potential of Nicolau rather than stick with the negative realities of defending USAPA's dead-end strategy? I'm asking, not presupposing. The fence they were sitting on a year ago has collapsed.

Consider the possibility that a TA containing Nic and enough sweeteners to attract those 200 east pilots might fail with the west if provisions of the current AWA contract are given away (like Age 58 bypass).

A TA with nic offer the advantage to the east of more money and better work rules. To the west, it's simply the chance to move on. A contract that erodes the current west contract but meets the letter of Wake's potential remedy is a non-starter with the west.

In short, a contract with NIC must be hammered out as if there was no clear majority of numbers to be exploited on either side.

Build a good contract rather than a vindictive one and it will pass and we can all move on.

 

[exB717Flyer]

SO, again from a non pilot perespective, let's look at the Nicolau award again. IS it fair to say that the East think it favors the West and that the West think it favors the East? If THAT'S accurate, then I've always heard that the best compromises leave neither side happy.

Normally, I'd agree with your logic. What makes this case different was the horrible handling of the arbitration hearings by the USAirways (East) MEC. While the AWA pilots were given the daily transcripts the USAir pilots were only given a Comm Committee Chairman's summary. And guess what? He would've made Baghdad Bob proud! We on the West read those summaries and couldn't believe they were being told they were winning every day. So the expectations of the East got way out of whack and that explains their bitter disappointment and shock at the award. Arbitrator Nicolau even told them ahead of time they weren't getting DOH -- but that news never reached the rank and file.

Nicolau had no intention of favoring either side. He was bound by ALPA Merger Policy and felt he ruled within its bounds. The East's own elected leadership failed them. And now witness how their new leadership is "supremely confident" their appeal of the court decision will be a success. There's a famous French saying, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, the more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

quote 737 "Build a good contract rather than a vindictive one and it will pass and we can all move on."

This still assumes company will negotiate a good contract that will pass. Even an industry standard contract with 10 more vacation days for East with same minimum block hours should require between 100-110 more pilots minimum if I did my math correctly. I don't think the company will be able to handle it for the first few months. That's probably why they're insisting on gradual return in negotiations. (of course staffing was another bankruptcy stolen item Nicolau considered no factor)

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Normally, I'd agree with your logic. What makes this case different was the horrible handling of the arbitration hearings by the USAirways (East) MEC. While the AWA pilots were given the daily transcripts the USAir pilots were only given a Comm Committee Chairman's summary. And guess what? He would've made Baghdad Bob proud! We on the West read those summaries and couldn't believe they were being told they were winning every day. So the expectations of the East got way out of whack and that explains their bitter disappointment and shock at the award. Arbitrator Nicolau even told them ahead of time they weren't getting DOH -- but that news never reached the rank and file.

That's not true. I read the trial transcripts on the USAPA website, all of them.

 

[Tiger 1050]

That's not true. I read the trial transcripts on the USAPA website, all of them.

I guess you're right how "udderly" obsurd! Except USAPA was not even a twinkle in Steven's eye at this point... Wanna rephrase?

 

[tazz]

I guess you're right how "udderly" obsurd! Except USAPA was not even a twinkle in Steven's eye at this point... Wanna rephrase?

Tiger, you gotta wonder, you just gotta wonder!

 

[EastUS]

So what you're gently trying to say is "Cats are smarter then Pilots"?

Just remember pilots are people too!!!

Hey! Fair's Fair here! "My" cat (cats own people, not the reverse) puts up a good show of liking me...at least at feeding time

More on topic = Is it just my imaginings here, or; does it seem that the west group's simultaneously fantasizing huge damage awards from the east folks..still gloating over pay differentials...any (here's where it truly gets weird)..yammering on about unifying and that "it's time to move on"? Is it just me?..or...Does that seem entirely schizophrenic "thinking" to to other readers as well?

Hmmm...perhaps cats are indeed smarter than some pilots

 

[ussnark]

I guess you're right how "udderly" obsurd! Except USAPA was not even a twinkle in Steven's eye at this point... Wanna rephrase?

Hey, kitty. Who is "steven"?

 

[exB717Flyer]

FO Bradford.

 

[Phoenix]

I am having trouble with US Aviation today due to what seems to be a database error that keeps occurring, so that keeps me from scrolling through all the posts fairly quickly. However, I have a practicality question that needs to be addressed at some point and that is who and how are the West to be represented by and how do they get equal financial support to do so.

USAPA is the sole bargaining unit. As such it controls the purse strings. It also controls, by its constitution, representation by and for the West pilots. So, how is West to be funded for legal and merger support in any negotiations when it is, by definition and law, part of USAPA. USAPA can simply pick up the phone and speak with legal counsel and that conversation and whatever work is required is paid for by USAPA. Who does West call and who pays for anything they perceive they may need to adequately represent their views on any potentially contested issues? Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen are conflicted on giving advice to West, both ethically and legally. So, does USAPA allow West to hire their own lawyers, accountants, etc. until a single CBA is ratified?

This is a serious question that needs consideration going forward.

The NMB answered that question already. Every member gets to call their elected reps.

 

[Phoenix]

SO, again from a non pilot perespective, let's look at the Nicolau award again. IS it fair to say that the East think it favors the West and that the West think it favors the East? If THAT'S accurate, then I've always heard that the best compromises leave neither side happy.

The only reason the West isn't happy is that they haven't received their windfall yet.

 

[jimntx]

So what you're gently trying to say is "Cats are smarter then Pilots"?

Just remember pilots are people too!!!

No, I'm just saying that cats have their priorities in order. For instance, I have found it to be true that dogs have family. Cats have staff.

 

[traderjake]

The NMB answered that question already. Every member gets to call their elected reps.

If that does not work they can call their lawyer who calls Judge Wake.